SES Engines - My Experience

[Jetskigoodies]

Honestly robj have you went through and read all of those links. Really sit and read them all, they all have the same things going on and they all have posted almost the same exact excuses that ses has given to them, after reading all of that, you do not see where I am coming from. Honest people get my business and people who dont hide anything. We have a guy named Joe that works/use to work for him on this forum, I would love to see some of his insight. Also you do not find it weird that people who know Tom from past dealings at other shops now say that he is the same guy. People have actually posted you are that guy on other forums, he also was busted acting like he was a customer and not the owner on other sites. I mean come on you guys are not that gullable are you?

 

[mashenden]

JSG, you got paypal, so there is no risk. Why don't you buy a motor from Tom, and then you can comment. If it doesn't work out you can always get your $$'s back thru paypal. This thread has taken a ridiculous turn, it started out as a informative thread about an engine rebuilder and has turned into SES bashing, from someone who has never purchased or even seen his product. And like I said before, who gives a rats asz where he builds them? I couldn't care less, as long as it is a strong running reliable engine. His feedback on e-bay is positive as well.

I have two of their motors, and so far have been happy with them. Is there room for improvement in customer service absolutely. I feel for those who have had to wait crazy long for their motors to be returned. That has not been my experience.On both of my motors Tom sent me tracking numbers.

I agree – things have turned into bashing, where no answers will be good enough. Few businesses are spotless, but this seems like it is getting blown way out of proportion. I will weigh in when I have facts... a rebuilt engine or not, for example.

Fact: Building photo was found to be a stock picture, not a building in Indiana. There were countless posts wasted discussing that tid-bit. Lots of businesses use stock photos – I don’t think it is a good idea, but that is Marketing. Do you really think that Wendy’s burgers are that big?? Hell no, but I eat there anyways because I like it for the taste and value. The value menu rules.

Fact: Latest address (905 Easton Rd) in Google Maps shows a building that clearly has jet skis parked next to it. Now that we conclusively know it exists we are going to debate its use as a shop vs storage, or that it is no longer in use. “F” that. Engines get repaired. That’s what matters.

Fact: Bonni did vouch for SES. Says she personally knows Tom and that he has rented that building since prior to 2005 (I did not ask if she has a photo of him)

I'm beginning to think that there are biased motives at play here. Why else would someone that has not been a customer take so much time to bash a business if they were not a competitor??? It does not add up, but I am not claiming that as fact. It just seems odd to me.

Fact: I am very impressed with JSG’s restoration efforts – kudos on that.

Over and out (until I get my motor back then I will report those facts).

 

[Robj]

Put it into the proper perspective, how many posters have not been happy, maybe 10 or so, in the last few years. He said he sold 435 engines last year, so that is still a very small percentage. Look at his feedback on e-bay, very positive, the only negative was with longer than expected delivery.

Regarding value, there isn't any better out there as far as a rebuilt engine goes. Are there better engines, absolutely, but not for the same $$'s as a SES engine. You can always upgrade to their OEM parts only engine, but I personally cannot justify the extra cost.

I will not and cannot defend the long turnarounds and lack of communication that some have experienced and I hope Tom takes that as constructive criticism and fixes it.

 

[mashenden]

... This is not bashing, but has sooooo many unresolved and inconsistancies it is crazy. He can not answer the biggest Issue you all have, SHIPPING...

Dammit - I got drawn back in 'cause I remebered a few more facts.

Fact: I tracked my shipment with a tracking number just fine.

Fact: From SES' website "NEW GUARANTEED SHIPPING DATE OR ITS FREE !!"

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Lol I have never leaned anyone to any product besides buffing compounds on here. I am busted meguiars is my employer and we are trying to put ses our competitor out of business on this forum. It is not that I dont want people getting lied too, i guess morally he bothers me and it doesnt really get under your skin, but seeing people blame themselves for sending their motor and hard earned money to this guy and not getting it for 5 months, really really should bother all of us on here. I try helping anyone on here out and have never ever done this before. All of this was found here and 2 other forums, this is all of our words condensed. So this rant is all of his customers words placed in one central thread, your positive post are on there as well, I am not editing links, use your own judgement. I am biased, I have never sent a motor out period, and why, because we build our own, i have not used sbt either and we dont rebuild any for customers we dont do engine rebuilds for customers just in our machines. He likes to bash sbt in his post on pwc, but I didnt see you guys getting on him. He was complaining about there components prices and even deferred his crappy customer service to them after a guy said he called tom and tom didnt seem interested in his business, Tom straight said are you sure you didnt call____ at sbt. I forgot the name he used but is was a females name.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Dammit - I got drawn back in 'cause I remebered a few more facts.

Fact: I tracked my shipment with a tracking number just fine.

Fact: From SES' website "NEW GUARANTEED SHIPPING DATE OR ITS FREE !!"

Go back and read Toms responce he claims he cant to control shipping prices, so you lucky golden boys must get the vip treatment. Again his words not mine. Just read everything.

Nm i went back and missed 1 of his responces that he is now using ups. I am admitting I was wrong on that post

 

[Jetskigoodies]

has anyone here ever bought anything from me beside one hood and a dess post? Has anyone ever had me tell them to send a motor to a specific shop? Last but not least has anyone had any issues with me besides this thread? I think not.


Funny 10 people in years unhappy when there are 3 people right now on this forum with horror stories, also in those threads way less satisfied customers. So if you are going that route do a ratio.

Weird I call and the people who work in the office say noone has been there in months, he gives you a specific person to talk to and they vouch for him.

Whatever, think what you want. 3 months and time will tell and a couple of you know what I mean.

 

[mashenden]

Go back and read Toms responce he claims he cant to control shipping prices, so you lucky golden boys must get the vip treatment. Again his words not mine. Just read everything.

Nm i went back and missed 1 of his responces that he is now using ups. I am admitting I was wrong on that post

... and wrong about the picture being a building in IN, and the building in PA not being Tom's [sorry, not meaning to piss ya off].

I am not sure how I earned "golden boy" status. I was just some guy that researched the forums for a while and decided to go with SES, then got the crap scared out of me as stuff started flying - some of it concerning, but some of it false. Again, time will tell on my overall experience, and I will be sure to share it.

It sounds like Tom is getting the shipping thing a bit more under control to me. Tracking numbers is a big thing IMHO. As someone mentioned earlier, there is no excuse not to have them in today's world.

 

[griz400]

View attachment 17260i got a picture of him out water testing -- probably why he wont answer phone --


me and sam were out bass fishing -- View attachment 17261

gotta go, got fish to clean !!!!:thumbsup:

 

[mashenden]

Ow!! That was too loud for my eyes (the large print, not the large Ta-Tas . They are fine.)

 

[Jetskigoodies]

You were not the golden boy it was 2 others, they were the first customers he did on the forum a few years back right after he was in the hot seat for the same issues. They got theirs quickly after other senior members called him out.

Seriously though people keep saying I dont have his product, that is correct but you havent seen me talking down his work, actually I think I may have pushed his rebuilds a while back as saying I heard his work is good and the price is good but turnaround sucks. I was purely going on miscommunication and shipping. Guys are getting on me about this, but other members have had the same feelings I just have made mine more well known and did more research.

 

[ocod]

An informed consumer is a better off consumer.
Everyone has opinions but the truth usually has a better outcome.

Keep digging JSG nothing you have said or posted has not been true.

 

[Robj]

JSG, when you look at the percentage of satisfied vs not, you have to consider all the engines that were produced and compare those that were satisfied to those who were not. Such data is not available at this forum. Ebay feedback would be a better data set that you could use.

Also those posts from a few pages back, some where from 2007, kinda irrevalent today. I counted 7 or so that weren't happy. If you google SBT, you can also read many stories of problems that people have had. There also many owners of SBT engines who are very happy with them Loudoo is one of them, if I remember correctly.

Also what are you doing in 3 months? Starting your own engine rebuild shop?

 

[Jetskigoodies]

I am getting killed on here, but we have 4-5 people right now with their motors out to him, so we will see how he does, hopefully they get good motors(which I never bashed) in a timely manner. The last time there was this much attention to it, the next few customers got theirs quick

 

[Robj]

JSG, you are not getting killed on here. Even though I do think a few points were irrevalent regarding his building and such.

I too hope the members who have their motors with Tom get a good product in a timely manner. I am quite sure they will. I just think that this thread over emphasized the negative and not the positive.

Maybe it is time for this thread to be closed??

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Wow, and I thought my research was thorough! I might have to hire you next time I need dirt on someone

The other thing you need to remember; and this applies to all situations...

People don't tell you good things.

Many, many people, if not nearly everyone on this forum, came to this forum, with a problem. "Hey my jet ski's run great" isn't going to make anyone write 4 pages or go all FBI on someone's ass.

Often people with no issues, do nothing. My self included. If I receive exceptional service or really like a product, I will take the time to find an audience.

However, I only joined this forum after I blew an engine. Not in the 10+ years prior.

Not many people here will post up that their install went without a hitch, they are too busy out on the water!

I do know Tom was willing to work with me on schedule, delivery, and he even offered to help me tune my carbs if needed!

JSG; your research has been quite extensive, I'm just stating that you may not find as many good reports as bad. Not because the good doesn't happen, but because that's how the internet works.

I spent my hard earned money with Tom's shop, and three engines later, still would. (Have any 951s laying around )

Ideally, yes, if the people with engines at the shop now receive them, and can post up, I am all ears. Not because I favor this shop, but because I really enjoy this sport.

I, like most of us with the skills to work on these become upset when people get into this, then bail because of money, engine problems, battery problems, etc. It can be a hard sport to get into. People buy 'fixer uppers' trying to save a buck, and end up wasting thousands.

I'm sure Tom has even more incentive to get those engines out (properly built), and, can use this as a avenue to expand even more.
I don't want to see any shop that that does quality work on these go under. My 02 skis better last until I'm dead and cold.

This thread should have been closed with the conclusion of my report.

Anyone who has sent an engine to SES, please post their experience in a new thread.

Actually, anyone who has sent an engine to ANY shop, please post!

What broke, when, price to fix, time to ship, issues, gains, performance, everything

Anyone who has not sent an engine, please ask questions as well.

 

[mashenden]

I am getting killed on here, but we have 4-5 people right now with their motors out to him, so we will see how he does, hopefully they get good motors(which I never bashed) in a timely manner. The last time there was this much attention to it, the next few customers got theirs quick

It’s not that you are getting killed, but there were some strong assertions that had some holes in them. I respectfully disagree with the poster claiming that all is true.

Your last comment continues to worry me because it is "Damned if he does, damned if he does not"... if he does good, the slam will be "He knew we were watching", but if even one slips up, he is a blankety, blank. It's that stuff that makes me think there is some slamin’ going on.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

enjoying this thread, but honestly I don't see JSG stepping over the line, i'd expect him (or any of my customers) to throw me under the bus if my customer service was the same, and not just a single incident, but several. JSG, I don't mind you digging further, you have every right to and some of the answers you've received have been questionable at best.

I chimed in many pages ago to basically say that the prices were surprisingly good, but I wouldn't and couldn't accept those long turn around times, (or something along those lines)

The issues around SBT are a similar, but separate issue, but you can't question their turnaround or shipping, but quality has been questioned before, currently, and i'm sure it will be in the future, i just always accepted that as part of the package when you consider the volume of product being moved.

In the same respect SES's turnaround/shipping issues may be due to the fact that they are a much smaller shop and possibly understaffed, at the very least the shipping issues are unacceptable IMHO, i realize that bulk shipping can be complicated or tricky, but since the shop chose the shipping service, not the customer, its up to them to resolve that issue or find another 3rd party for shipping, and again, at the very least offer a more expensive, but more reliable shipping service (a few come to mind and i'm sure we've all heard of them or at least have seen the big brown trucks )

I'm 100% behind anybody that refuses to accept excuses for lack of tracking and shipping hassles, its quite simple: a phone call, an email, etc.. , IMHO its all part of the customer experience, a quality engine does me no good if its shipped to another state, lost in transit, with no tracking.

Heck I shipped out 5 things this week and on 3 of them I made ZERO money, all with tracking, and even sat on one until I could confirm a last name, included the customers email so they'd get shipped notice as well, it took all of 30 seconds and no big deal. And as crazy as it seems, with the wonderful world of the interwebz,, between cat pictures, i was able to click and confirm that all 5 items were received, by confirming delivery. that took about 10 seconds each....

I do believe that SES is working on or has resolved the shipping issue, at least I hope so. and contrary to one comment, I do believe the location is somewhat important... and needs to be accurate, this is a business, not a guy in a garage, and the business location should be accurate and verifiable. (I know mine is ! )

 

[Jetskigoodies]

I think his future customers still have a right to see this thread. As for the building being irrelavant, I do not think so, it is showing his character. When you build a website yes you may use stock images of products, but you still have that product, a building image you looked for a nice building to advertise as yours and stole an image, you do not see minnetonka showing a new building, nor does Dr Honda use photos that are not his. Stock photos and stolen photos are different, as for wendys burgers not being that big and advertising tricks, photos will say enlarged to show quality, I just posted that because it is misleading as were some of his comments, that is where I was going with all of this, you guys are right, we build our motors on a small workbench but I am telling you that, i am not making myself to be something I am not. As for over 400 motors a year that is 1.2 a day including saturdays and sundays which he would need 5-6 guys for that type of machine operation, parts pick up and assembly. He may have that many employees but I do not know.

 

[mashenden]

... When you build a website yes you may use stock images of products, but you still have that product, a building image you looked for a nice building to advertise as yours and stole an image, you do not see minnetonka showing a new building, nor does Dr Honda use photos that are not his. Stock photos and stolen photos are different, ...

I agree that there is a difference between stock vs stolen pictures. You do realize the pic on SES's website was proven to be a stock photo, not a stolen one, right (which is why it is being used in several websites)?

I'm off to Wendy's.

.... This thread should have been closed with the conclusion of my report.

Anyone who has sent an engine to SES, please post their experience in a new thread.

Actually, anyone who has sent an engine to ANY shop, please post!

What broke, when, price to fix, time to ship, issues, gains, performance, everything

Anyone who has not sent an engine, please ask questions as well.

Good point. I tried to stop a few times, but kept on posting - its a sickness . I will be sure to post my progress and pitfalls on the following post: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?58923

Over and OUT (again!)

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I think his future customers still have a right to see this thread. As for the building being irrelavant, I do not think so, it is showing his character. When you build a website yes you may use stock images of products, but you still have that product, a building image you looked for a nice building to advertise as yours and stole an image, you do not see minnetonka showing a new building, nor does Dr Honda use photos that are not his. Stock photos and stolen photos are different, as for wendys burgers not being that big and advertising tricks, photos will say enlarged to show quality, I just posted that because it is misleading as were some of his comments, that is where I was going with all of this, you guys are right, we build our motors on a small workbench but I am telling you that, i am not making myself to be something I am not. As for over 400 motors a year that is 1.2 a day including saturdays and sundays which he would need 5-6 guys for that type of machine operation, parts pick up and assembly. He may have that many employees but I do not know.

on this part I agree 100%, for the good and the bad, heck, i've read SBT bashing's that go back 10+ years on the Riva forums,they found a way to overcome a bad thread, (quite a few actually) and I think SES will be just fine as well, in the end, the product will speak for itself, and they will suffer little or no consequences from this thread or any others. This forum or any forum doesn't have as much influence as some of you people might think, its just a tiny sliver of info out there among all the other needles in haystacks. Life goes on.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Here to validate your point on his ebay business

http://myworld.ebay.com/joe9892?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Only thing though, I have a hard time seeing over 400 engines, his feedback is in the 200s and that goes back many years, I would think he advertising is mostly ebay and these forums.

Though you are correct very positive feedback on ebay, then again they shut you down once there are major shipping issues.

Have they ever switched usernames?

You would think his username would be ses or seadooengineshop. I guess we know they have still have a joe working there

 

[Robj]

I am sure many purchased through his website, like I did for both of my motors. So no ebay feedback.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

True but 20% of 430 is 86 a year and I am sure that 20% of his biz would come from ebay seeing he is a 1-2 man shop and doesnt have a huge advertising budget.

And alot of the feedback is as a buyer and then selling other items, not just motors, but in 7 years he is at about an average of 2 a month so the other 34 a month are coming from his website? Possible but unlikely.
That also means everyday everday someone is blowing up their motor and sending it to ses,

 

[Minnetonka4me]

He admitted 10 motors got lost last year...10!!! At an average of $1000 a motor that $10k in losses!! I assume theres some sort of insurance, but if not he's out 10k of those tight profit margins. That makes ZERO SENSE!!

I did 2500+ transactions in 2012 and not one of them felt the need to complain. Hell Ive done close to 10k in transactions in 5 years and yet....zero negative feedback. How could that be??

I dont build motors...even my own. I am right with JSG Im a guy thats looking for a place I an TRUST to rebuild motors with proper customer service. The only thing we have to lose is our reputation when we suggest where to go and that guy gets burned.