Jetskigoodies
Well-Known Member
Damage control
I am glad this has had something positive come from all of this ranting and bickering.
I am glad this has had something positive come from all of this ranting and bickering.
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SES Engines - My Experience
- Thread starter SabrToothSqrl
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Spimothy Leary
Well-Known Member
1) I think the forum DID light a fire under his azz, I think JSG's efforts were justified and at least by me,, appreciated.
2) I don't think the thread should close, but really, I couldn't care less if it does, my mind was made up long ago.
3) if the thread stays open, it will just move down to page 2, 4, 10, 20 in short order and only people that specifically search SES with the right keywords, will find this thread (and others) and they'll benefit from it, for better or worse.
2) I don't think the thread should close, but really, I couldn't care less if it does, my mind was made up long ago.
3) if the thread stays open, it will just move down to page 2, 4, 10, 20 in short order and only people that specifically search SES with the right keywords, will find this thread (and others) and they'll benefit from it, for better or worse.
mashenden
Active Member
YAWN. JSG, again your "facts" are wrong. Maybe you have confused me with someone else. Either that or you really need to separate fact from fiction.
In my post I got the suggestion to do a comp test from kicker on 01-27-13 @ 08:20 AM. By 01-27-13 01:00 PM I had bought a nice tester (can't believe I have lived this long and never got one) and then found bad compression on the rear cyl. A half hour later the top was off. And by 4:45 that same day I had the jugs off. BTW, by "us" you must mean "them". You did not make a single post in that time frame.
Here is my thread if you want to review the facts.http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?58923
Granted I do ask questions (quite a few, since I am new at this) but I read, and learn. You would be correct to say I do not blindly follow, though. I'll make no apologies there. I did take some time to come around to needing to align an engine, but I am not alone . The shop that will be replacing my tank claims it is all but unnecessary. Same goes with another professional source. The experts seem to be split 50/50 on the engine alignment topic. If I can find someone locally/reasonably, I'll do it just to be safe.
Lets not turn this into an attempt to bash me now.
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mashenden
Active Member
and 82.5% of all statistics are made up.
mashenden
Active Member
I would have appreciated JSG's efforts a lot more if so much had not proven to be incorrect. I do think overall this thread will institute some change. That's cool. Hopefully Tom's business improves as a result.
I sure look forward to learning how adam's turns out.
My mind definitely changed on thinking this thread needs to close. I agree - keep it open. Those that are tired of it can unsubscribe from it.
Any explanation or apologies on why it has taken so long? This does seem excessive.
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Spimothy Leary
Well-Known Member
mashenden
Active Member
Molotok
New Member
What bass?
Sorry - completely missed the bass
me too.. Maybe a higher resolution picture, im having a hard time finding the bass:lol:
bell99man
Active Member
I don't own anything from Tom either because of the bs excuses for time. I don't have time to chase someone in PA into finding crap I paid for in good faith. You people can back him all you want but if I drove to to some address in PA expecting a shop and found a drop point on a front porch of a residence, I absolutely would have turned my angry tired ass around and never looked back. Sorry Saber, just can't believe you were comfortable with that. You guys do what you want with your money but mine is going to a place I can verify is a REAL business. I mean a place that clearly has a license to operate, is a member or a professional org or guild like BBB and have easy to find, outstanding feedback. This is for things like motors and big ticket items. Yes I bought mine used and it was a bad risk and I learned from that not to assume anything in a deal. I know, you would think a guy turning 50 should know this by now.
Jetskigoodies
Well-Known Member
You are correct and I apoligize, i remembered posting on your alignment, and for some reason I thought you also had the metal shavings in your motor.
As for any other things that were incorrect, I must be forgetting something here.
My original posting was all correct, so much so that it made him think to change everything on his site in just 1 day,
Also he just now started to do damage control with unhappy customers even after they have already contacted him(adam) let me guess he would have done that on his own. This thread had nothing to do with that.
If an alignment is not needed do not do it. It is your seadoo.
As for us, I did make a comment on your thread and if you check out my threads, I may know my way around a seadoo.
If aligning a motor is not required a specific tool would not have been made, I am sure a professional made that.
As for the phone call I did call, it is just weird that I called and a person who works right infront of his shop has not seen him in months but if you call specific people that they know he is there. I would know if the people at noisy machine shop next to us stopped showing up, oh wait they did a couple months ago.
I questioned his turn around time
His shipping
His websites details
His service
Now he has changed his site around
He now is calling people back
He now is using a different shipper
Looks like every single issue but 1 that I had is now being resolved, looks like my little rant worked,
My goal wasnt to get Mashenden to be my buddy.
Looks like your points didnt change anything.
By the way have you read all the other seadoo forum links yet, maybe you should call those guys liars too
Like the guy that never got his parts until he made a post and then he got them quickly yet he was emailing and calling weeks before that.
You can now get the last word in and win that game. Just had to verify my incorrect post. Which I have not seen anyone have any facts about why my post we inaccurate, besides the one I just admitted too.
I can admit when I am wrong unlike most.
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mashenden
Active Member
Your rant crossed a line IMHO. While that is your right, it did not seem right. And, yes you are forgetting some things. Please recall...
- You accused him of being a thief, but you were wrong on that point because it was a stock photo that comes with the web design package.
- You were wrong about the building in the original picture being in Indiana. It was not. The Indiana website clearly stated it as being a vacant lot.
- You accused him of being a liar because you were convinced he did not have a shop. Again, wrong. As it turns out he has a shop. Google Maps clearly shows it with jet skis next to it. So then you turned your sights on how the building is being used.
- You had issues about shipping and tracking numbers, but this was solved before your rant. I tracked my stuff using Tom's shipper.
Seems there were some other things but I am wearing down (crowd cheers
). If you did have some valid concerns, they were lost on me because of the other breaches in credibility (although you clearly know your way around a restoration effort).When I find I am wrong on something that went against advise, I will definitely share it. I have been known to go against conventional wisdom when it does not make sense to me. Yes, I like being right, but second of all, I like being wrong. That's because either way the answer is known. Maybe that will be when my jet ski throws a shaft up me arse, or maybe not. I still may get it aligned if I can find someone locally that has the freakin' tool. Time will tell.
CVFD1314
New Member
WOW, the last time I looked at this thread it was on page 8. You guys are expressing some serious 1st amendment here, I'm out having a beer right now and am replying on my phone, but I have something I'd like to chime in on when I have a computer to type on. Tom mentioned Brandon earlier on here, that's me, the one who just got his engine back after being lost in shipment. Since this hot and heavy subject has me mentioned, I will be back with comments.
This originally said that JSG wasn't going to post any more in this thread. I had a beer to celebrate, but I guess he changed his mind. So I guess I'll go have another beer anyways.
CReynoldsMIZ
Well-Known Member
Your rant crossed a line IMHO. While that is your right, it did not seem right. And, yes you are forgetting some things. Please recall...
- You accused him of being a thief, but you were wrong on that point because it was a stock photo that comes with the web design package.
Where was this? Please quote this JSG calling him a thief. He said that was NOT his building, and guess what, IT WASNT HIS BUILDING. So yes, by posting that picture on his website, he was indeed MISLEADING people and he knew it!!
- You were wrong about the building in the original picture being in Indiana. It was not. The Indiana website clearly stated it as being a vacant lot.
Do you have any proof of where this actual building is?
- You accused him of being a liar because you were convinced he did not have a shop. Again, wrong. As it turns out he has a shop. Google Maps clearly shows it with jet skis next to it. So then you turned your sights on how the building is being used.
As it turns out, you are believing a person who has a track record of LYING against someone who is doing their own background for no reason except to help others make an educated decision on a business. Is it illegal to want a business to be truthful for no reason other than to restore faith to consumers? JSG has no underlying meaning on doing this, he isnt trying to steal this guys business, he did investigation and if you dont like what he says, then please turn your appearent blind eye the other way. Google maps isnt updated all of that often btw, and possibly not in the past months/year
- You had issues about shipping and tracking numbers, but this was solved before your rant. I tracked my stuff using Tom's shipper.
WOW. Congratulations that you used SES's tracking number and maybe he is getting better, but you cant deny the past mishaps by SES in terms of customer service and shipping. He himself said that they lost 10 engines last year, who knows if that number is true or understated??? If he did 400 engines a year, and 10 got lost. That is ALOT, 2.5% for you math majors
Seems there were some other things but I am wearing down (crowd cheers
Credibility: Okay, JSG has turned himself into one of the most frequent and knowledgeable users since he has been here, on the other hand, you have been here less than a month and about half your posts have been on this thread. I have a problem when a new user attacks one of the most dedicated users on the forum. Im sorry but that bugs me.
When I find I am wrong on something that went against advise, I will definitely share it. I have been known to go against conventional wisdom when it does not make sense to me. Yes, I like being right, but second of all, I like being wrong. That's because either way the answer is known. Maybe that will be when my jet ski throws a shaft up me arse, or maybe not. I still may get it aligned if I can find someone locally that has the freakin' tool. Time will tell.
Please, align it, will save you money down the road. These guys know what they are talking about
Rob, please keep closing your eyes whenever you read a negative comment about SES. You are obviously a fan of the guy, because yes he did a good job for you. But, isnt that what you expected and what should have happened? He is only stating all of the NEGATIVE experiences that are all over the internet, please read some of the links JSG provided, they are saying the same thing all over and over and over again... :cheers:
Im sorry for ranting and bickering, but I feel some people are attacking JSG for investigating and stating things that he found...
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I have read them, some are from 2007, so is something that happened in 2007 going to influence my purchasing decision today? NOT. I am speaking from my own personal experience having purchased two engines from them. I had no problems with communication or delivery, even got the tracking numbers for both. JSG's rant would be much more credible if he was speaking of his own experience. He cannot, because he never dealt with the guy. He just keeps pulling up crap from all over the internet. It is not hard to find negative info on any engine rebuilder, just google SBT. Do those negative posts mean all SBT engines are bad? No.
To the guys who want to purchase from a fancy shop, go for it. I couldn't care where it comes from as long as it performs like it should.
To the guys who want to purchase from a fancy shop, go for it. I couldn't care where it comes from as long as it performs like it should.
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mashenden
Active Member
CReynoldsMIZ, this is in response to the clarifications you requested. I am not interested in getting in a post war with you, so my answers will be focused on providing what was requested, with one point of defense on my tenure here.
First let me say thank you for the Fat Chick reference. That is what I call my SP now. Hilarious. I also appreciate the feedback on aligning a motor. Its difficult for me to decide on this point because I am getting experts weighing in on both sides of that topic. Whichever way I go, I'll post the decision and follow up with the results, even if it is a few years from now (if the forum will still have me). And IF I decide to not align and IF it causes a problem on my low HP jet ski, we can all have a laugh at my expense when I admit that y'all (I'm in the south) told me so.
Credibility - Yeah that is a valid point. I am hoping to establish credibility using facts, instead of quantity of posts, but the number of posts are racking up as I try to further clarify the facts. The only reason I got involved in this tread is because it turned very concerning about a day after I paid for my rebuild. I had to dig into the details, so therefore thought others should see what I found. I can assure you I have read the other posts. Mostly old and some even related to some other business. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I RESPECT JSG FOR THE THINGS HE HAS EXPERIENCED.
As requested, the reference on JSG's false accusation on theft:
Ya got me on the location. I don't know where the building in the stock photo is located. The real point was that it was not at that specific location in Indiana either to further clarify that the picture was not stolen, but instead at worst a poor Marketing decision that most (probably all) large corporations make. SES has since removed the picture, for which some will find fault there too, I am sure.
Agreed, Google Maps may be stale, which is why I personally called the general Century 21 number that was then forwarded to his landlord. It too checked out. That was good enough proof for me. I am not going to get pulled into a discussion on whether it is used as a shop or storage - that is another line being crossed IMHO.
The quote was "less than ten", but to not split hairs, I too think this definitely needs more comment by Tom. I am not sure what that means. I know of 2 in recent times, which is less than 10; CVFD's situation (where dual responsibility has been claimed by those directly involved), then adam's situation, but the details have not been made public yet. 10 seems excessive, but 2 is forgivable if ultimately resolved, and efforts are taken to correct the process (which seems to be the case, and the reason that I mentioned my tracking experience).
First let me say thank you for the Fat Chick reference. That is what I call my SP now. Hilarious
. I also appreciate the feedback on aligning a motor. Its difficult for me to decide on this point because I am getting experts weighing in on both sides of that topic. Whichever way I go, I'll post the decision and follow up with the results, even if it is a few years from now (if the forum will still have me). And IF I decide to not align and IF it causes a problem on my low HP jet ski, we can all have a laugh at my expense when I admit that y'all (I'm in the south) told me so.Credibility - Yeah that is a valid point. I am hoping to establish credibility using facts, instead of quantity of posts, but the number of posts are racking up as I try to further clarify the facts. The only reason I got involved in this tread is because it turned very concerning about a day after I paid for my rebuild. I had to dig into the details, so therefore thought others should see what I found. I can assure you I have read the other posts. Mostly old and some even related to some other business. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I RESPECT JSG FOR THE THINGS HE HAS EXPERIENCED.
As requested, the reference on JSG's false accusation on theft:
which persisted for numerous posts as the photo's origin was proven to not be stolen.
Ya got me on the location. I don't know where the building in the stock photo is located. The real point was that it was not at that specific location in Indiana either to further clarify that the picture was not stolen, but instead at worst a poor Marketing decision that most (probably all) large corporations make. SES has since removed the picture, for which some will find fault there too, I am sure.
Agreed, Google Maps may be stale, which is why I personally called the general Century 21 number that was then forwarded to his landlord. It too checked out. That was good enough proof for me. I am not going to get pulled into a discussion on whether it is used as a shop or storage - that is another line being crossed IMHO.
The quote was "less than ten", but to not split hairs, I too think this definitely needs more comment by Tom. I am not sure what that means. I know of 2 in recent times, which is less than 10; CVFD's situation (where dual responsibility has been claimed by those directly involved), then adam's situation, but the details have not been made public yet. 10 seems excessive, but 2 is forgivable if ultimately resolved, and efforts are taken to correct the process (which seems to be the case, and the reason that I mentioned my tracking experience).
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what does someone really save ??? over ses and sbt ??? ive looked at websites, seems to me like 100.00 -- maybe -- sbt gives you raves and bellows and oil fittings all new, shipping rates ok -- http://www.shopsbt.com/rates.htm -- also, if you pick up the phone, and call, someone actually answers - and then transferes to correct department - and you get motor in days
maybe for people up north, being closer
but alot of us here, just go there and get it ... has anyone ever been to ses ????
first time i went to sbt was at 8:00 am, when they open, was like 20 - 30 cars there, thought they were busy, was employees cars
maybe for people up north, being closer
but alot of us here, just go there and get it ... has anyone ever been to ses ????
first time i went to sbt was at 8:00 am, when they open, was like 20 - 30 cars there, thought they were busy, was employees cars
mashenden
Active Member
On mine, the price was the same (within 4 bucks), but I saved about $150 on shipping because I caught SES's seasonal shipping deal. A couple of other pluses; I did not need to pull the PTO and flywheel, includes a new rotary valve, and I will keep my original engine. I'm still not sure I can explain why the last one is important to me, but it is (damn emotions). While I understand the counter arguments, I went with premium because it is good insurance being this was my first (an ole fart, sea doo virgin, no less) - I did/do not want to have a bad overall experience 2 years from now.
While I am very mechanically inclined, there are times when I am not qualified or do not have the time to do the work. In those cases I do gravitate toward the personal attention of a smaller shop, and not towards dealers and large operations. To each their own.
If you and Sam ever want to come up here to go bass fishin', just let me know
Im glad to hear that this lit a fire under Tom's asz. I also am glad to see he isnt saying anything...just doing positive things.
I also want to thank JSG for not just walking away from this issue. You can mince words with his statement that "tom stole the picture"...we all steal pictures from google on a daily basis. The issue here is he has that picture on display that he doesnt own. Again sounds like it is being fixed.
Last thing I'd like to point out to Tom...you DONT have to accept every job. If things are getting harry just communicate to your customers. A customer cannot biatch if you just tell them "im slammed it could be 4 months" they then get to make the decision. Email is nice b/c it doesnt matter what time you do it. There is very little issue posted with the quality of work, you just need to start a little spreadsheet to keep an eye on your timelines and communication.
For the most part this argument was as professional and respectful as I have ever seen on the internet. For that I give everyone a big thumbs up!!!:thumbsup: and a beer...:cheers:
I also want to thank JSG for not just walking away from this issue. You can mince words with his statement that "tom stole the picture"...we all steal pictures from google on a daily basis. The issue here is he has that picture on display that he doesnt own. Again sounds like it is being fixed.
Last thing I'd like to point out to Tom...you DONT have to accept every job. If things are getting harry just communicate to your customers. A customer cannot biatch if you just tell them "im slammed it could be 4 months" they then get to make the decision. Email is nice b/c it doesnt matter what time you do it. There is very little issue posted with the quality of work, you just need to start a little spreadsheet to keep an eye on your timelines and communication.
For the most part this argument was as professional and respectful as I have ever seen on the internet. For that I give everyone a big thumbs up!!!:thumbsup: and a beer...:cheers:
When I purchased mine, there was a few hundred different between SBT's premium and SES, with the latter being the cheaper one. Both with two year no fault warranties. At the time SES also had free return shipping. For me the real deal breaker was that I was unable to get the PTO off, which for SES was no big deal, but for SBT I had to remove it. Because of that and price I went with SES. Also my motor was used mostly in fresh water so I rather have it rebuilt than get an exchange.
If things were the other way around I would have bought SBT, while it easy to find negative comments about them as well, I think those are the vocal minority. They build a decent product as well and I am sure most who have their product are quite hapoy with it. Just like us who chose to buy from SES.
If things were the other way around I would have bought SBT, while it easy to find negative comments about them as well, I think those are the vocal minority. They build a decent product as well and I am sure most who have their product are quite hapoy with it. Just like us who chose to buy from SES.
With SBT they do SERIOUS machining and spec'ing which is really good...but then put all those cheap chinese parts in there and the detuning are a deal breaker for me.
For a few hundred more you can get a motor that will last much longer...not to say you wont get 5+ years out of a SBT...IMO you'll get more out of a motor with a OEM crank.
For a few hundred more you can get a motor that will last much longer...not to say you wont get 5+ years out of a SBT...IMO you'll get more out of a motor with a OEM crank.
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