2001 Seadoo Sportster LE. Just got it!

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

$70.00 for that head gasket? Ouch, I see complete top end kits with everything for $225-$250 (I'm not trying to encourage you to do that ) but it would allow you to tear it down far enough to actually see the full extent of the wear and damage.

That's the problem with rebuilding these on a shoestring, you end up spending more for less.

I learned today that SES thinks an RV motor should blow 140psi This was a shocker for me b/c RV motors normally blow 150psi in good condition. So I'm wondering what's wrong with SES they're de-tuning engines?

 

[Waterluvr]

That's the problem with rebuilding these on a shoestring, you end up spending more for less.

I learned today that SES thinks an RV motor should blow 140psi This was a shocker for me b/c RV motors normally blow 150psi in good condition. So I'm wondering what's wrong with SES they're de-tuning engines?

That's interesting, because I sent them some business this week. I would like to know why that's SOP for them, these engines need every pound for pony they can muster. One of the reasons aside from welding cranks I relegate SBT motors to hackery is their compression drops.

I wish our friend here actually owned a boat with a 787 instead of the 951, on account of his curiosity to get in there and see what's really gone on. I surely appreciate his wanting to know and no doubt you do as well, it would just be so much easier for him to do the job right in the boat without pulling the engine and dealing with the separate individual cylinders on reassembly to get the pin and clip back in the piston once it's in the jug.

 

[Bonmotwang]

$70.00 for that head gasket? Ouch, I see complete top end kits with everything for $225-$250 (I'm not trying to encourage you to do that ) but it would allow you to tear it down far enough to actually see the full extent of the wear and damage.

This is the one I was looking at.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360921442235

How far I can tear down to with this kit? I thought it is complete.



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[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yeah, glad I found out before sending something to him. These motors ran fine the first 10~15 years and many were beat hard when new, can't imagine wanting to detune them.

 

[Waterluvr]

This is the one I was looking at.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360921442235

How far I can tear down to with this kit? I thought it is complete.



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It looks complete, your good to go with that gasket kit to remove the whole top end. I took it as you were prepared to spend $70.00 for just a head gasket and thought that was just a little to much for a peek inside the head only to see piston tops.

If you want to get that far into it, just hold off on ordering anything. We can at least walk you through crank and bearing inspection etc. for the lower end and see if it's viable to have your cylinders bored and a top end kit put back. The labor end is same...

 

[Waterluvr]

Yeah, glad I found out before sending something to him. These motors ran fine the first 10~15 years and many were beat hard when new, can't imagine wanting to detune them.

Agreed, and if you recall I mentioned my motor was going to Full Bore if and when needed. I have spoken to him at length and he get's it. I'm not interested in a compression loss on a new motor for a single engine boat and I won't live or be boating long enough to need a third one.

For the money, SES has the best deal out there for 720 rebuilds and they don't butcher the crank.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I can't imagine needing more than just the head gasket unless you plan on removing the cylinders too, in that case you'll need the base gasket and those manifold gaskets too and the base gasket needs to be the same thickness as the one you're running now.

Some guys try to use a thinner base gasket but you run the risk of throwing off the geometry of the squish area to try getting a little more compression, must measure the squish and/or cc the chamber to get it right and that can eat up head gaskets if you don't nail it the first time around.

So if you're yanking the cylinders off then use the same thickness base gasket to put the cylinder back on with, the thickness is marked on them buy the number of holes in one corner.

Looks like he's got three different base gaskets in that kit there so you can pick the one you need, make sure it's not a 951-DI kit though!

I like that seller, except I have to pay state tax.........

 

[Waterluvr]

I'd rather see him hold off on the gasket's until it's all apart. If all is reasonably well on the bottom end, and he is serious about a bigger boat inside of another 25-50 hours of time on that power it might really end being in his best interest to bore minimum oversize and get a fresh top end.

I know, top end's on old power is not a good faith practice when shop time labor billing is adding up on a ticket but for the DIY guy it might actually pay in this case. Really can't call it without a tear down, some pics and see where it's at from there.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I dunno, maybe if it was a 780 but the 951 can be fickle. May as well throw a crank and balance shaft ( BS bearings) in there too.

 

[Waterluvr]

I dunno, maybe if it was a 780 but the 951 can be fickle. May as well throw a crank and balance shaft ( BS bearings) in there too.

Agreed again, I mean it's that far apart why not? $$$ I think that's where any DIY value stops, with regard to him getting into the bottom end. To much can go wrong, and he's better off at that point having never touched it and using a quality reman.

But there's the rub, he's obsessed with opening it up anyway and there's probably no stopping him. I'd rather see him roll the dice from the base gasket up with an all new top end if it's coming down that far.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

It's a pure judgement call he gets to make and live with, then we go full circle through the what-if's....

I think he's afraid of his wife more than anything?

 

[Waterluvr]

It's a pure judgement call he gets to make and live with, then we go full circle through the what-if's....

I think he's afraid of his wife more than anything?

I'm hard of hearing, I get to ignore mine without consequences now. (It's been a blessing)

Here's a what if in dollars and cents, safe to say a 951 burns 15 gallons an hour near WOT? Times 50 hours, at $4.00 a gallon that's 3K worth of fuel costs put to a much better use if that top end buys him another 50 hours of operation at near peak performance for say $250-350.00 all in for the motor parts.

I may change my thoughts on sailing one of these days...

 

[Bonmotwang]

Sometimes the apps do suck concerning a limited list of PID's but a few of the apps allow you to configure your user PID list so basically the app just requests the PID you specify in addition to the provided list..

So you need an app that allows the user to configure and specify the PID if you want to expand on the PID's provided.

Got the scanner and put it on and got the iphone app working.
But just a few parameters available in the app and not including the transmission oil temperature.

Found it has hyper terminal mode! Should try some basic commands.

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[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I may change my thoughts on sailing one of these days...

This is why my boat doesn't just cruise around and around, it might run a total of 30 minutes in a normal day, takes me out to the island with a sandy beach.

Yeah, I've noticed being hard of hearing some try to take advantage. I'm losing some ability to hear voices too, selectively tuned hearing, LOL?

BONMOTWANG,Yep, the MFGr's only document the mandated OBD2 to help the smog inspectors, but the extended info is there, just have to ask all the right questions and find a S/W that allows custom PID setup.

Pull up a terminal program and send it some AT commands, I don't know which command reports trans temp but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out?

 

[Bonmotwang]

I got a friend coming on Aug 2nd. Wants to go out boating. I will take the head and cylinder off tonight. And post pictures. Anything I need to know before I put my hand on the socket wrench?


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[Waterluvr]

I got a friend coming on Aug 2nd. Wants to go out boating. I will take the head and cylinder off tonight. And post pictures. Anything I need to know before I put my hand on the socket wrench?


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Easy does it on the head and cylinder bolts, if something doesn't want to turn out use heat and penetrant and walk away if it won't turn out of there.
Sometimes 24 hours and alternating heat and penetrant applications save the day, also if the cylinders don't want to move up off their locating pins when the bolts are all out take five and post back we'll try do our best to help you get those moving up and off without damaging them.

You should have a plastic dead blow hammer and rubber mallet handy for this job, light taps on a nut and bolt with some heat and penetrant work very well to break the seal of galvanic corrosion on fasteners.

Also, not sure of the 951 uses loose needle bearings or if they are caged on the piston pin but it's critical to completely cover the lower cases when removing the wrist pin clips and pin to take the piston off the rod that nothing drops down into the crank.

On Edit:
Once you get just the head off stop and clean off any loose carbon from the top of the piston and if for some reason it looks like metal's been bouncing around in there it doesn't hurt to run a vacuum and magnet around there to suck up any aluminum or steel ring shavings. You want to try and do everything possible to prevent loose debris from falling into the crank when you take the cylinders up and off the pistons.

You never really know what you're going to find in there, I have magnets attached to a shop vac nozzle that I use when cleaning up that tell me things that aren't otherwise visible to the naked eye.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yep, if you're removing the cylinders you need to go slow, cut a piece of cardboard with two slots in it to slide under the cylinder and around the piston rods to keep upper piston pin needle bearings and other debris from falling into the crankcase.

I think these piston pin bearings are caged type, not sure if the cage is plastic or metal. The fun part is, I think the piston pins might be pressed in?

For the head that's pretty straight forward, sealant around under some of the bolt heads is required to avoid water jacket leaks.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Don't you have a local guy there that bores and hones cylinders? You could ask him to fix you up with pistons, pin bearings and rings, maybe get him to hone or rebore to his pistons if necessary.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

You never really know what you're going to find in there

Reminds me of the Peugeot that had a small hex nut bouncing around in the cylinder (no longer looked much like a nut), always wondered how much longer that motor kept running?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Or you could wait till after your friend visits, just make sure there's plenty of cold ones in the cooler in case you have to row back.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Further thought: If you remove the cylinder then may as well just install a top end?

 

[Waterluvr]

Further thought: If you remove the cylinder then may as well just install a top end?

Lol that was my contention all along when I suggested holding off on ordering just the gasket kit until he could get it apart and evaluate what the crank and rods looked like, if it buys him 2-3 more seasons of use or gets him to the next boat it's worth the gamble.

Besides you know he's not taking our advice and doing it right with a proper reman so it's probably worth rolling the dice if there isn't anything that stands out when the top end comes off, 60/40 odds the new pills won't blow the crank apart before the first 40 hours pass.

That is unless there's crank bearing cage remnants already welded to the counterbalance weights when he takes pics later and posts them. *Fingers Crossed*

 

[Bonmotwang]

Don't you have a local guy there that bores and hones cylinders? You could ask him to fix you up with pistons, pin bearings and rings, maybe get him to hone or rebore to his pistons if necessary.

Yes, I just texted him about a top end rebuilt. I guess i still need to take cylinder and pistons to his place (2 minutes away) and he does the rebuild and I put it back.
He only works on jet skis in his single garage. So just no room for a boat to fit in. Waiting for his response now. He is a cop and this is his side job.

 

[Bonmotwang]

Reminds me of the Peugeot that had a small hex nut bouncing around in the cylinder (no longer looked much like a nut), always wondered how much longer that motor kept running?

I looked through the RAVE ports the other day, didn't see any aliens there :-D

 

[Waterluvr]

Yes, I just texted him about a top end rebuilt. I guess i still need to take cylinder and pistons to his place (2 minutes away) and he does the rebuild and I put it back.
He only works on jet skis in his single garage. So just no room for a boat to fit in. Waiting for his response now. He is a cop and this is his side job.

He just needs to know what his options are for piston sizes from where your at to the next size up etc. He has to bore as much as is needed to get it cleaned up so buying pistons now would be premature.

Let him have all the old stuff and you can order it all at once when he is finished. You'll be amazed the difference in power a fresh top end makes