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The X4 Thread
- Thread starter purple_people_eater
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Champion plugs don't work well in a 2-stroke. Don't know why... but in the +30 years I've been playing with these things... they never hold up. I recommend only NGK BR8ES plugs. That is the factory plug, and NGK Works the best in a 2 stroke. (Autolite doesn't like 2-strokes either)
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
That filter should be OK. (as long as it's not the tiny little filter, about the size of your thumb) If it's small... it an't goign to cut it. First... you have to flow enough fuel to keep 110 HP happy. (not a 5 hp lawnmower) Also... we use a recurculating fuel system... so, we send about half the fuel back to the tank. SO.... the filter has to flow enough for that too.
With that said.....
STOP RUNNING THAT SKI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are showing classic symptoms of running lean on the top. Every time that engine slows down... you are causing damage !!! There is either:
1) a restriction in the fuel system.
2) an air leak in the system
3) a leak in the fuel pump/pulse line
4) The pop-off is too high
5) the needle and seat are sticking.
I would really hate for you to cook a brand new engine.
Flying96XP
New Member
Well. Anyone in my area looking for a 96 XP let me know. Sick of dumping money into this head pipe bolt issue. Guess ill just sell her.
jetmanjo
New Member
Dr. Honda, Thanks for the input. As for the MPEM, I get the two beeps, and the self check seems fine. I am going to start with my solenoid off my 95 SP and see if that start/stop button problem goes away. If it cranks good, I will move on to the next issue.
Next question is, will the Ignition Coil (Is this also known as the CDI?) interchhange between my 95 SP and 96 XP? If so, will the Pickup Coil also interchange between the two motors? If so, I can do the trouble shooting before spending money on parts I may not need. The SP looks a lot easier to get the pick up coil out of, but.... I have not made an attempt yet, figured I would pick some brains before tearing into it.
Flying96XP, you certainly have a unique problem to say the least. Maybe try welding that thing on?! Ha ha. Good luck! At least yours runs! Probably enough to make you frustrated, but at least you have ignition!!!
Thanks guys!
Next question is, will the Ignition Coil (Is this also known as the CDI?) interchhange between my 95 SP and 96 XP? If so, will the Pickup Coil also interchange between the two motors? If so, I can do the trouble shooting before spending money on parts I may not need. The SP looks a lot easier to get the pick up coil out of, but.... I have not made an attempt yet, figured I would pick some brains before tearing into it.
Flying96XP, you certainly have a unique problem to say the least. Maybe try welding that thing on?! Ha ha. Good luck! At least yours runs! Probably enough to make you frustrated, but at least you have ignition!!!
Thanks guys!
hackete
New Member
Dr. Honda,
Sorry I should have been more detailed. Ski ran great first 4 tanks. On the 5th tank it started doing the bog on top end so loaded it up and went home that was yesterday evening. After I got home from work today I took the carbs off and double checked the pop off preasure it was 44-46 I did it 10 times on both carbs and the lowest was 44 on both and highest 46 on both. I double checked the internal filters. They were clean and sprayed through the jets etc. since I had it apart. I will pick up a different filter friday and try it. I had the jets set at 1 3/4 on low and 0 on high.
Should I up the high end screw?
Flying96XP,
I had the same problem on my 96, I put studs in it and used the locking nuts that look like they have washers built on them. Got the studs and nuts at Auto Zone. I did not use any washers. Even though they were locking nuts I used blue lock tite.
Sorry I should have been more detailed. Ski ran great first 4 tanks. On the 5th tank it started doing the bog on top end so loaded it up and went home that was yesterday evening. After I got home from work today I took the carbs off and double checked the pop off preasure it was 44-46 I did it 10 times on both carbs and the lowest was 44 on both and highest 46 on both. I double checked the internal filters. They were clean and sprayed through the jets etc. since I had it apart. I will pick up a different filter friday and try it. I had the jets set at 1 3/4 on low and 0 on high.
Should I up the high end screw?
Flying96XP,
I had the same problem on my 96, I put studs in it and used the locking nuts that look like they have washers built on them. Got the studs and nuts at Auto Zone. I did not use any washers. Even though they were locking nuts I used blue lock tite.
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jetmanjo
New Member
Saving my time!!!
Thanks for the heads up on that. That will save me the time on one end of the spectrum (Taking apart my 95 SP). I guess I will just spend the labor on the other end and pull the front cover to inspect the pickup coil on the 96 XP. Any suggestions on the best place to get one would be? I thought I might go ahead and order one as most things are pointing to it being the problem. If it is not broke and hanging there, I might as well replace it, before it IS broke and hanging there!
Brandon, your write up is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Good ol' tricks of the trade are what I am talking about!!! You gave me a bit of encouragement and it makes it sounds better than what I was thinking it would be. I will give it a try next week. I actually do hope I find it broke and hanging as that should be the fix to my issues. If not, I will have to keep digging.
Dr., a used CDI was installed about a year ago. Dont think the ski has really run since it was repaired. Just seems odd to me that $1,000 was put into it, it sat on a lot for sale, they found it would not run, and sold it to me for $1,000.00. Cant wait to get to the bottom of this so it can get wet! Once I get it in the water, I know I will want a set of your custom tabs. I like a smooth ride!
Thanks
Thanks for the heads up on that. That will save me the time on one end of the spectrum (Taking apart my 95 SP). I guess I will just spend the labor on the other end and pull the front cover to inspect the pickup coil on the 96 XP. Any suggestions on the best place to get one would be? I thought I might go ahead and order one as most things are pointing to it being the problem. If it is not broke and hanging there, I might as well replace it, before it IS broke and hanging there!
Brandon, your write up is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Good ol' tricks of the trade are what I am talking about!!! You gave me a bit of encouragement and it makes it sounds better than what I was thinking it would be. I will give it a try next week. I actually do hope I find it broke and hanging as that should be the fix to my issues. If not, I will have to keep digging.
Dr., a used CDI was installed about a year ago. Dont think the ski has really run since it was repaired. Just seems odd to me that $1,000 was put into it, it sat on a lot for sale, they found it would not run, and sold it to me for $1,000.00. Cant wait to get to the bottom of this so it can get wet! Once I get it in the water, I know I will want a set of your custom tabs. I like a smooth ride!
Thanks
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Is the '95 a 720 or 800 XP? (they made both that year)
Really wasn't trying to be harsh... but I don't want to see you ruin an engine.
You can open the high needles... but it should run with them closed.
Do you have the factory/stock air box on it?
When you were checking the pop-off... did you notice if the pivot arm was flush with the carb body?
spx800
Active Member
does anyone have experience with the skat swirl or solas x0 on a stock 800? i was talking to someone who had the solas and they said they gained 1mph on top and acceleration was improved. obviously acceleration is more important, but not loosing and actually gaining top speed is great as well. if anyone knows which prop provides better hole shot and top end could you let me know.
brandon32689
New Member
I got a idea. Why don't you get a new manifold that the pipe bolts to and maybe that problem will be gone. I got one ill sell you cheap
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
I like Skat-Trak Swirl impellers. They are the absolutely best for getting out of the hole, and minimizing cavitation. I just put a 17/23 in my XP... but I've massaged the pump a bit. I would recommend a 17/22 in a stock ski.
FYI... I ran a 16/21 in my boat, and my single engine Sportster had no issues with pulling a wake boarder... and I have one in my Genesis. (but the came from the factory with Skat-Track swirls)
In my Si... I ran a Solas becasue the low HP engine needed help. Solas has a thinner hub, and it can move a little more water. (in turn, gives better top end)
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Flying96XP
New Member
I have an XO on mine. The brief 15 minute stints of running i can tell you i have better acceleration than either of my stock XP's.
Flying96XP
New Member
Studs and nuts ill try this weekend with more of the high temp red loctite...
brandon32689
New Member
If that don't work try changing the manifold I bet maybe from over tourqing the threads may be worn or spread.
hackete
New Member
There are no rave valves so I was sure it was a 720 until I bought a exhaust gasket for it and it was wrong, the dealership said it was a 800 but its a 720 engine must just have a different exhaust not sure. Of course they looked it up on microfiche and we know that should be good right because it stays updated. It's a 720. It is identical to wifes 97 GTI, and looks nothing like the 96.
I didn't take it that way :thumbsup:
I will try it out with them closed. Maybe it is the filter. Big ends but the center is small I had a 78 TA that didn't like those filters had forgoten about that till now.
Yes it is stock.
I think I may have an air leak it didn't do this before but after I put the carbs back on it ran away at idle instead of staying at 4k I will pull them back off and double check everything tomorrow or Friday. It did not do that before I took them off it was getting dark and I got in too big a hurry putting them on.
Yes I used a razerblade to check it.
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
OK... if the spark plugs are straight up, and the carbs are on one side, and the exhaust is on the other... that's a 720. (no RAVE's either) I just wanted to make sure so if we start talking carb specs... I give you the right info.
I would get the carbs off, and do a full dissassemblely, and treat them like they've never been rebuilt. Go over everything, and verify that EVERY passage is open. I remember doing a motorcycle carb back in the day... and because I had it off 3 times already... I was just "Skimming" over the rebuild. When I finally sat down, and verified everything (in a very methodical way) I found a plug in the emulsion system.
Also... make sure that EVERY hose clamp is on, and is tight. A small air leak in the fuel hose coming up to the carb will give surging issues.
Nope. (I don't think I did) I got 56 mph out of it the other day. (light chop) Before I did the work on the drive... I could only get 45 mph out of it because it was bouncing so bad. Also, it was showing some light cavitation.
The list for the drive was:
1) Shim trim tabs to 3 degrees
2) install swirl 17/23
3) Re-seal the shoe
4) Install a UMI Top-loader
5) Bore nozzle 1mm.
6) Clean the flashing out of the bronze casting.
7) new neoprene seal
8) shim the carbon ring
With the above done... I can sit my fat butt on the back of the seat, and hold the throttle wide open, and it will run flat. With the VTS trim up... I can feel the nose just skating on the water. (The big tabs become the wet'ed area of the hull)
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
The RX should be closer to 60 mph... but as long as it's running good. I bet your wear ring is open more than you think. The bigger the gap... the lower the pressure at the nozzle.
An aftermarket impeller, and a fresh OEM ring will have almost no gap. It will help you find the extra 4 mph, and probably bring your top RPM's down by 100.
spx800
Active Member
ya the rx has a peak of 61 mph this year. but, up to 56 mph the spx and rx are close is what i meant. the wear ring gap is big in the rx, i just wanted to ride it this year and fix it in the winter. the spx is withing spec, but there are some gouges in it and i don't know how old it is so im going to replace it. i also want to put a prop in the rx.
jetmanjo
New Member
(Blkscorpion) = Your PM box is full and couldnt respond by PM:
Tim,
Thanks, I just got the front storage bin with containers (Including a fire extinguisher), a pick up coil, the rear black box complete, and the VTS Module with motor shipped for $275.00.
I am not sure what else I will need at this point, but I am sure there is always something! Do you still have your front electrical box? The long grey one?
I will know more, IF I can get this thing running!
What happened to this ski that you are parting out?
Thanks,
Chuck
Tim,
Thanks, I just got the front storage bin with containers (Including a fire extinguisher), a pick up coil, the rear black box complete, and the VTS Module with motor shipped for $275.00.
I am not sure what else I will need at this point, but I am sure there is always something! Do you still have your front electrical box? The long grey one?
I will know more, IF I can get this thing running!
What happened to this ski that you are parting out?
Thanks,
Chuck
jetmanjo
New Member
Oil Tank Line... Engine Compression...
It looks like I have a small crack, or hole in my oil tank line. What have others replaced this line with? Autozone or Ace Hardware have something that will work?
I might as well do it all at once. Any idea of how many feet to purchase?
Also, is that some sort of stock oil filter that looks like an "In-line" fuel filter that is at the front of the engine? Do those ever need replacement?
Also, on my 587 1995 SP the compression is right around 125 on both jugs. Is this normal for this engine, or is it going to need some help soon? The XP 800 is right at 150 for both jugs so just wonder if the SP has been used hard and has a short life left, or if that is the norm.
Thanks
It looks like I have a small crack, or hole in my oil tank line. What have others replaced this line with? Autozone or Ace Hardware have something that will work?
I might as well do it all at once. Any idea of how many feet to purchase?
Also, is that some sort of stock oil filter that looks like an "In-line" fuel filter that is at the front of the engine? Do those ever need replacement?
Also, on my 587 1995 SP the compression is right around 125 on both jugs. Is this normal for this engine, or is it going to need some help soon? The XP 800 is right at 150 for both jugs so just wonder if the SP has been used hard and has a short life left, or if that is the norm.
Thanks
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