SES Engines - My Experience

[rjcress]

Last week when Tom told me my motor should ship this week I also asked what paint they use. I would like to get some and start painting the parts that didn't get sent in so they will match. Tom answered that it should ship this week, but didn't answer the paint question... so I emailed again yesterday. Here is how the exchange went:

On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:21 PM, rjcress wrote:
Got the engine today! Woo Hoo!
Can you tell me which paint brand and color you use so I can color match the other components?

On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:29 PM Tom wrote:
It's concept machine paint base and then we clear it
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:39 PM, rjcress wrote:
Thanks. A quick google search didn't show me where to buy it. Can you point me towards your supplier?

On Dec 13, 2012, at 10:10 PM Tom wrote:
body shop supply house. you will need a gun.

On Dec 13, 2012, at 10:40, rjcress wrote:
Thanks. A quick google search didn't show me where to buy it. Can you point me towards your supplier?
Thanks. I have a gun.
It is called "concept machine paint"?

On Dec 13, 2012, at 11:36 PM Tom wrote:
Yea

So, I think the main thing that I've learned is that, while Tom is great to talk to on the phone, he and I don't communicate well via email... 'cuz I have googled and can't figure out what he is talking about... either the exact paint to buy, or the place to buy it from.
I found a "Concept Paints", but they are in Australia. http://conceptpaints.com.au, and they don't list a product called "Concept Machine Paint".
And I googled "body shop supply house" and don't see a company by that name online, or in the Horsham, PA area.

I'll call Tom in a couple of hours and see if he can give me a more specific answer on the phone. I was expecting something like "we use Eastwood Ceramic engine paint and the color is Universal Aluminum. We order it from here http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-engine-paint-qt-universal-aluminum.html"... or something like that.

Am I just being unusually dense? Can anyone else decipher Tom's message?

 

[Spimothy Leary]

yes, substitute "body shop supply house" for the words "a body shop supply house"

substitute "concept machine paint" for "some machine paint"

seems pretty straight forward to me

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Yes, and yes.
They cleaned and clearanced the business end of the RAVE valves, but left the rest dirty.

i guess the lesson here is the wipe the raves with a paper towel before sending them in, since they're out of them

 

[kicker]

Prior to paying and shipping I called to get information. Tom told me that they don't offer a standard rebuild for the 787 RFI only the Premium rebuild. He told me the turnaround would be 6-8 weeks.

Other then only premium available on the RFI, is there any other difference in the rebuild on the RFI compared to a carbed 787? I have 2 carbed 787's and 1 RFI and want to pick up a spare and rebuild it, but dont know if all 3 are the same.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I only have the 99 racing manual, which shows the 951 as a white engine...

this page only has the same info

http://www.seadoosource.com/paintcodes.html

if you get the code, then anything can match it, right?

 

[rjcress]

yes, substitute "body shop supply house" for the words "a body shop supply house"

substitute "concept machine paint" for "some machine paint"

seems pretty straight forward to me

Yeah, that is how I interpret his response also. Unfortunately, I could figure that out for myself. I was looking for a more specific response so I could match the paint more accurately. I hope they are more specific when working on the engines.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Yeah, that is how I interpret his response also. Unfortunately, I could figure that out for myself. I was looking for a more specific response so I could match the paint more accurately. I hope they are more specific when working on the engines.

actually I believe the answer is yes. granted i've read some horror stories surrounding turn around time, but not regarding the quality of the product. I've slammed them over the long waits a couple of times in this thread but after looking at the prices it was like "dam, Its almost cheaper than I can build it myself"

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I'm still happy with the 3 they've done for me Turn around time is not ideal, If all the engines are the same, why not use SBTs model and ship after they accept it?

ie: get it in, then within 72 hours, make sure the 'core' is good, and ship out another engine... I don't care what engine it is, long as they back it up w/that warranty.

I used a friend to help rebuild these top ends or cranks at a time, and never got the performance I felt it should have.

my engine from SES has exceeded my expectations and runs dead on with my wife's 951 ski that has 35 ORIGINAL hours on it. So I can't say it's better than stock, but I can say it's 100% the same as stock. Which, is really all I wanted to maintain the reliability.

Even not counting labor costs, their prices are such that, for me $200-$400 extra or whatever it is, is worth it just to know that if it blows up, I have somewhere to go... It's a volume game, build enough so that 1-2 rebuilds on your dime don't break you.

 

[rjcress]

... If all the engines are the same, why not use SBTs model and ship after they accept it?

As I understand it, since I got my same engine back, I can use the alignment shims that were under it before. However, if they sent me a different engine, then I would have to do the full alignment again. So, the way they do it actually works out better for me.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Is yours the red/black 2000 GTX 951? That's a ski I'm after to match my 99 GSX LTD.... But I'm looking for one w/a blown engine.

I'm not sure, I'd think they are close enough, the shims I think would be to match it more to your hull than to your engine...

If I end up picking up another 02 XP, I'd get SES to build me that bigger / badder engine for my current 02 XP... see if I can't make it jump even higher

 

[rjcress]

Is yours the red/black 2000 GTX 951?

Nope. I've got the blue/black/white "millennium edition".

 

[adamsbj123]

Other then only premium available on the RFI, is there any other difference in the rebuild on the RFI compared to a carbed 787? I have 2 carbed 787's and 1 RFI and want to pick up a spare and rebuild it, but dont know if all 3 are the same.

You cant use one complete 787 engine as a spare for both carb and RFI models. There are differences including holes in the jugs for the injectors on the RFI.

 

[rjcress]

I talked to Tom a couple of times today, as I've got my 787 packed up and finally have the funds to send it in for rebuild.

2 things I thought worth sharing from the calls:
1) I asked about turn-around time and mentioned seeing notes on this forum from folks that were not happy that theirs were taking so long... some way longer than mine. He said he didn't have any engines that had come in before mine, could I point him to where I read it so he could investigate. He called me back later to say that he found the thread and tracked down the one that was complaining about a really long wait, and that particular engine went out long before mine, but appears to have been lost in transit. He said he talked to the customer and is sending him a replacement engine now while he processes the claim with UPS. I suggested that if he just emailed the tracking number when it shipped, that would warn the customer that the engine is coming (in case the need to make arrangements) and would eliminate the issue of someone waiting indefinitely for their engine to show up, not knowing when it should get there. Tom said that the shipping broker he uses gets him super low rates, but hasn't been responsive at providing tracking numbers... but that he would look into it. BTW, he said that he would have my engine for 3-4 weeks, so if I sent now, I should have it back around the end of Feb, since I'm only about 2 days away via UPS.

2) Tom said that this summer they will guarantee to turn around engines in a specific time, or the work is free. I think he said it would be 4 weeks. That was intriguing.

He also mentioned that he knows he is a bit behind the curve on office stuff... that he is a mechanic and often works on the engines himself... but he said he is going to make it a priority to improve in customer communication as well.

Since I had shoulder surgery 2 weeks ago and didn't have time to get my 951 back in the GTX before the surgery, I still don't have it installed... so I haven't tested it. But everything else went well enough with that engine at SES that I decided to send my 787 to SES also. Faster turn-around would be nice, but for the price, they still seem like the best value. The 787 will be picked up by UPS tomorrow.

 

[kicker]

You cant use one complete 787 engine as a spare for both carb and RFI models. There are differences including holes in the jugs for the injectors on the RFI.

Thanks Adam, that makes sense. I have since bought another ski with a 787 so it is still something I am considering.

So as I understand it, SES fixes and ships back your original block. Will they sell a motor to you without sending them a core? I cant seem to find a link or pricing for an outright purchase of an SES engine.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Hey Spim, whats the turn around time you experienced with the 3 you got from ses. Were they all about the same amount of time?

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

You'd have to call, but their business (from what I understand) is just rebuilds.

They do however, often post full engines on eBay.

Call and ask, can't hurt.

I have a COMPLETE spare 951 in my basement. (Everything but carbs). (Never even started). (NFS)

 

[kicker]

You'd have to call, but their business (from what I understand) is just rebuilds.

They do however, often post full engines on eBay.

Call and ask, can't hurt.


I have a COMPLETE spare 951 in my basement. (Everything but carbs). (Never even started). (NFS)

Not sure where you posted that before, but your the one that gave me the idea of getting a spare. I heard a lot of complaints about wait times and did not want to go through that with our short season.

 

[adamsbj123]

I talked to Tom a couple of times today, as I've got my 787 packed up and finally have the funds to send it in for rebuild.

2 things I thought worth sharing from the calls:
1) I asked about turn-around time and mentioned seeing notes on this forum from folks that were not happy that theirs were taking so long... some way longer than mine. He said he didn't have any engines that had come in before mine, could I point him to where I read it so he could investigate. He called me back later to say that he found the thread and tracked down the one that was complaining about a really long wait, and that particular engine went out long before mine, but appears to have been lost in transit. He said he talked to the customer and is sending him a replacement engine now while he processes the claim with UPS. I suggested that if he just emailed the tracking number when it shipped, that would warn the customer that the engine is coming (in case the need to make arrangements) and would eliminate the issue of someone waiting indefinitely for their engine to show up, not knowing when it should get there. Tom said that the shipping broker he uses gets him super low rates, but hasn't been responsive at providing tracking numbers... but that he would look into it. BTW, he said that he would have my engine for 3-4 weeks, so if I sent now, I should have it back around the end of Feb, since I'm only about 2 days away via UPS.

2) Tom said that this summer they will guarantee to turn around engines in a specific time, or the work is free. I think he said it would be 4 weeks. That was intriguing.

He also mentioned that he knows he is a bit behind the curve on office stuff... that he is a mechanic and often works on the engines himself... but he said he is going to make it a priority to improve in customer communication as well.

Since I had shoulder surgery 2 weeks ago and didn't have time to get my 951 back in the GTX before the surgery, I still don't have it installed... so I haven't tested it. But everything else went well enough with that engine at SES that I decided to send my 787 to SES also. Faster turn-around would be nice, but for the price, they still seem like the best value. The 787 will be picked up by UPS tomorrow.

This is insane. I sent my 787 RFI to SES back in August. I have been waiting 5 months. I called last month to check and Tom told me he was waiting on gaskets. I emailed last week and have not yet recieved a reply. If you happen to talk with him again please mention B. Adams waiting for his 787 RFI.
Thanks.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Not sure where you posted that before, but your the one that gave me the idea of getting a spare. I heard a lot of complaints about wait times and did not want to go through that with our short season.

Well, any wait time sucks with a 3-4 month season....

Find a blown engine / ski that isn't worth saving, and send them the engine.

After all I went through though.. The problem was only ever the carbs.... So I have a spare now, but don't anticipate any issues.

 

[Robj]

I just got a motor back from them. They still have my 787. Not a bad idea to have a spare motor but it is kinda expensive to have a rebuilt motor sitting on the shelf, plus I don't have a core, which makes even more expensive.

 

[CVFD1314]

Got a call from Tom today, he didn't know that I never received it as I didn't know when it was shipped. UPS apparently lost in in transit and then has no record of it b/c of it being 90 days past when it was shipped. So now I have another 720 engine coming from SES to replace my lost one. So that's my update to me finally getting a motor. Some form of an mail when the engine is shipped would be helpful so I have an idea when to expect it. My engine got there OK, just didn't make it back.

 

[kicker]

I just got a motor back from them. They still have my 787. Not a bad idea to have a spare motor but it is kinda expensive to have a rebuilt motor sitting on the shelf, plus I don't have a core, which makes even more expensive.

Your right with a core and a rebuild I will be into for $11-1300. The way I look at it I am buying a rebuild at some point, with 3 787's, one of them is going to grenade sooner or later. My skis are in good shape so it will be no question that I will be putting a rebuilt in them when they do blow, and I don't have to have the aggravation in July of trying to get rebuilt before the snow flies. Just plunk it in and send off the junk one for a rebuild when they are running specials in January.

My real issue is if it sits around for a year then you lose a year of warranty. Not sure if I want to give up the warranty.

 

[Robj]

An e mail with the tracking number is something he should do when he ships out motors at least that way we can track it. Even though e mailling the tracking number is a good idea, not all vendors do it.

 

[CVFD1314]

Just a quick call or email would work for me, so I know of a time frame when to expect it. It figures that of all the engines they ship, mine would be the one to get lost. I'm not sure how it was possible if it was in good container, had the address visible and secure, why it didn't make it to my house.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Hey Spim, whats the turn around time you experienced with the 3 you got from ses. Were they all about the same amount of time?

that wasn't me. i've only done engines with SBT. and i just drive up there, give them a core, and walk out 20 minutes later with a new one. obviously its not the same engine, but if you've seen the cores i've brought, you'd understand that I don't want them back.. ever ! 90% of the time when I need an "engine" it gets put together at my buddies, with parts on hand or purchased from Nick. But SES by far has some of the best prices i've seen.

if my core isn't complete trashed, its more cost effective to rebuild "in house" the rebuilders only get the worst of the worst, ugly rusty cases, stuck and rusted crank, cyls that need re sleeved, mangled head and the oldest crappy raves I can get my hands on. nothing is "usable" except the cases.