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RESTO Project Dog House: 1996 Challenger

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see if he is willing to send you the melted pistons, or at least pictures of them...

so your basically getting new jugs, pistons,rings, bearings, and of course gaskets?
 
see if he is willing to send you the melted pistons, or at least pictures of them...
so your basically getting new jugs, pistons,rings, bearings, and of course gaskets?
I'll call him Tuesday and ask for details on exactly what is being done. I already asked him to mail pics of the pistons.
 
Got too busy to call Tom yesterday, but called him today.
Tom said:
-Motor is done, just waiting on paint. Should be painted today or tomorrow, and will ship Thurs or Fri.:hurray::thumbsup:

-The steel in the cylinders looked fine, but was had aluminum residue from the pistons. They bead blasted the aluminum off, honed, and measured. All checked out.

-Bottom end was inspected and was fine, so just a top end job done, and a new rotary valve, since it had some fine scratches, and they had it apart anyway.

-For the '96 Challenger jet boat the carbs should be set as follows:
Low speed screw: turn in until it bottoms, then turn out 1.5 turns
High speed screw: turn in until it bottoms, then turn out 1/8 turn
Pop-off on both is around 31-32, which he said is fine.

-If I hook it up and it doesn't idle properly or have smooth transition between the different carb circuits, then something isn't right. If everything is right in the fuel system, then the factory settings should be dead-on and not need tuning.

-If idling for ~30 sec causes it to load up, then the new needle seats are leaking. Adjusting up the pop-off pressure close to 40 should fix, or maybe changing back to the original seats and needles, since they appeared undamaged.

-I asked about the head temp sensor... shouldn't it have let me know that the engine was too hot? Tom said that, basically, that sensor only measures water temp, and usually just means that there is no water flowing. EGT would have been the only clue, but the 96 Challenger doesn't have any sort of EGT sensor or gauge & would require a new manifold. He said that if the fuel system is working properly, that the EGT is a waste of time. Better to put my time into making sure the fuel system is perfect.

Fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly and I have it back early next week. Personally, that will be great timing, as I'm too busy to work on anything this week, but will have time to put towards this next week. :)

So far, my experience with SES on this has been even better than I had hoped for.
 
see if he is willing to send you the melted pistons, or at least pictures of them...

so your basically getting new jugs, pistons,rings, bearings, and of course gaskets?

Oh, and by the time I asked about the pistons he said they were already in the dumpster.
 
hmmmm, I was afraid you`d get back the scoured cylinders... aluminum transfer can be taken off with chemicals just for that, they do it all the time on Nicasil coated cylinder, so steel should be even easier. rehoned to get back into spec or clean up? maybe the clearances were to tight to begin with...

the wear/damage patterns just don`t make sense without seeing the whole piston, cylinder etc...

good luck my friend!
 
true, the temp sensor just lets you know there is an overheat condition bc of low water or no water. Am engine can self destruct without this sensor going off, and that quickly to...

EGT`s are best suited for diesels and airplanes, LOL
racers use EGT`s so they can get every bit of power and where 10ths of a sec matter while running on the edge...
 
SES shipped my engine yesterday. It arrived at the local distribution hub about 2 hours too late to make it to me today. Will be on the delivery truck Monday. Guess I need to get the parts prepped to go back on. :)
 
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Re-rebuilt engine should be here this afternoon.
Hoping I can get the engine hoist back from my neighbor (it is his) this evening.

Saturday I re-pressure washed the engine bay to get rid of the oil that got everywhere last time out.
Sunday I:
- cleaned and prepped all of the parts that go back on it so I'm ready to rock as soon as I get it out of the crate.
- hooked the oil injection pump up to the oil feed line and used a short section of fuel line attached to my drill to turn the pump. One of the outlets seemed to work better than the other. So, I tested my extra pump (was in the box of goodies that the guy threw in when I bought his alignment tool a few months ago... along with the pop-off tester, spare drive shaft and starter) and it appeared to pump more vigorously... so I swapped pumps on the mag housing. Hmmm. On second thought, I think I'll remove the pump and hook it back up to the oil feed line so I can use the drill to re-prime outlet lines before I screw the pump back onto the mag housing.
- painted the purple exhaust pipe black
- got all of my tools and supplies staged for the reinstall

And this morning I set the dolly (the locals call them "hand trucks") in front of the garage so the UPS guy can wheel the engine up for me.
 
Oh yeah! Just got email from my neighbor that he rolled the hoist into his driveway so i can go get it whenever I'm ready. :)
 
And this morning I set the dolly (the locals call them "hand trucks") in front of the garage so the UPS guy can wheel the engine up for me.

Good luck with the re-install!



Call me local, it's a hand truck. This is a Dolly, LOL


ac9ecf4753parton.jpg
 
...and the engine is once again installed in the challenger.
Too late to fire it up though, so I'll hook up the battery and hose and test fire it before work in the morning.
 
...and the engine is once again installed in the challenger.
Too late to fire it up though, so I'll hook up the battery and hose and test fire it before work in the morning.

Great to hear. Hope all goes well this time!
Keep us posted.
 
Did you ever go back and look to see what your carbs were set to? What did your plugs look like? Do you think you nailed down the initial problem that caused your engine to die?
 
This morning I gave everything a good twice over.
Nothing leaked overnight.... always a good sign. :)

Found one hose clamp that I had not tightened last night, so secured that.

Took the charger off of the battery and connected the battery to the boat.

Pulled the boat out into the driveway and hooked up the hose. I've read that you shouldn't turn the hose on until the engine is running, but I was by myself and not close, so I set the hose to a trickle and let it run while I looked over everything again.

You can imagine, after being SOOOOO friggin' ecstatic I was after installing the freshly rebuilt engine last time, when it appeared to run. I had attributed the idling issues to a variety of other issues and missed the root cause until after the damage was done. So, with that painful memory very fresh in my mind, I was incredibly nervous about starting the re-rebuilt engine.

This time, I knew that I had good carbs, as they were rebuilt 2 weeks ago and the rest of the fuel circuit was cleaned with filters replaced. The fuel was fresh with pre-mix at around 30:1. The oil injection pump had been tested and replaced with one that had better flow, and the system was thoroughly bled, and the injector lines primed. I blew a shot of carb cleaner through each injector to be sure they were clear.

I also took apart the RAVE diaphrams (had not taken them apart last time) and cleaned that whole assembly, as well as thoroughly cleaning the freshly re-contoured RAVE valves.

I swear... I could have had the engine back in and installed in probably 3 hours last night, but I double and triple checked everything and read and re-read the shop manual directions before each step. So, it took more like 6 hours.

Did you ever go back and look to see what your carbs were set to? What did your plugs look like? Do you think you nailed down the initial problem that caused your engine to die?

Good question! I knew what the carbs were set to when I lost compression. I had just rebuilt them and was running them rich. Should have been 1.5 on the low speed screw and 1/8 on the high speed. I had low at 1.75 and high at about 1. I was intentionally running rich and was in the process of turning them in to find the right setting when it died. The plugs were wet, since it was so rich. It was just warming up though, and I believe that the damage had already been done on the two prior trips to the lake when the carb gasket was misaligned and making it run super lean and hot. It didn't help that I had forgot to tighten the oil injector bleed screw and it fell out, so likely very little oil was being injected with the pre-mix. So... to answer the question directly. I don't KNOW that I nailed down the initial problem, but all the evidence that I've seen leads me to strongly believe that I did. I think that the pistons were pretty much shot from the prior overheats and just needed to warm up enough to fail completely. On good pistons I think that the pre-mix was strong enough to run without oil injection at all. So, I think the missing bleeder screw just let them warm up slightly faster... that even with the bleeder screw in it would have failed within a few more minutes of use. I could be wrong, as I was before. I guess we will know shortly. :)

When I talked to Tom at SES about this he said that starting rich and then "tuning" the carbs is the wrong approach. Rather, the factory settings are spot-on if everything else is right.So, I should start with the factory settings. If it wouldn't run right, then I know something else is wrong.
So, before reinstalling the carbs this time I set them to the factory settings.
Anyhow, Tom's assessment was that it was run super lean which made it run super hot, and that the air leak from the mis-aligned carb gasket was what he would have expected to have caused such a condition.

On the first install I also neglected to prime the oil injector lines or verify the oil injector pump output. I did both this time, so I know it is getting oil to both cylinders now. I also put a cap full of injector oil in each plug hole and rotated the flywheel by hand for several revolutions prior to installing the engine. Just before attempting to start it this morning I also sucked a little oil into a straw and let an inch or so of oil drip into each carb throat by the oil injectors, and washed it in with a cap full of pre-mix gas in each carb throat. And for the 8th time, I opened the throttle and looked down the carbs to be sure that there was NO GASKET showing.

So, back to this morning...
It is safe to say that I was dreading pushing the button for fear that I'd screwed something up and I'd either hear nothing happen at all, or a brief whir, followed by some loud clunks, a pool of oil, and possibly a raging fire. I was done around 1:30 am last night, but stayed in the garage liberating the rest of the blue-pink-purlpe LSD paintbrush swipe stickers from the hull with a razor blade while I thought through the whole install process to see what I might have forgotten or missed. I knew that going to bed would be a waste, as I would just toss and turn and keep my wife awake. Around 3am I finally hit the shower and went to bed. Surprisingly, I don't recall dreaming of fried engines or being towed back to the dock.
... but I digress...

Imagine my surprise when it actually fired IMMEDIATELY (as in INSTANTLY... as in, it was running before I was sure I'd even fully depressed the starter button) and ran for about 1.5 seconds. :cheers::thumbsup::cool::coolgleam::reddevil::hurray:
I had hoped that the little gas I had put in the carbs would be enough to turn it over and prime the fuel system (I had not run it since reconnecting the fuel selector valve, so I knew it would need time to deliver fuel). It took another 7 seconds or so of cranking to get the fuel flowing fully. Once the clear in-line fuel filter filled up, the engine started and ran. It surged and sputtered for about 5 seconds, which scared the mess out of me, as it was just like before. However, it quickly settled down and purred like an angry kitten. It idled fine, which it really wouldn't even do well on the trailer before I found the carb gasket leak before.

After idling for about a minute and a half I pulled the key, disconnected the hose and quickly backed it into the garage, as I was already a few minutes late for work.

Next steps:
-reinstall airbox
-reinstall engine bay lid
-revisit the list of "to do" items I was working on before the re-rebuild.

I would LOVE to get the boat to the local lake for a test run before we pull it up to Smith Mountain this weekend, but I doubt I'll have time. Although, I may be able to squeeze in a quick trip after work tomorrow. Not likely though, as we are trying to refinance the house for a lower interest rate and I have a long list of stuff to do before we schedule the appraisal. I SHOULD be doing sheet rock repairs Weds. evening. :mad:
 
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I always flush my engines by myself. I wouldn't risk water ingestion even with it at a trickle. Hook the hose up, get it started and idling, THEN turn the water on. My hose is clear on the other side of my house. It'll be fine for the 10-15 seconds it takes to get water to it.

Atleast it runs!!! that's a start.
 
Thought about my schedule this week and decided to take the boat to a local lake today (leaving in 15 min) so I have time to address any issues before the weekend. :)
Fingers crossed.:willy_nilly:
 
In the water and idling nicely at 1500 rpm. Gonna let it idle maybe 10 minutes before we shove off.
 
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