rjcress
Active Member
I need a little "Jeff is trying to be funny/sarcastic" icon that shows when I'm attempting to make a funny. I knew what you meant and appreciate the sentiment.
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RESTO Project Dog House: 1996 Challenger
- Thread starter rjcress
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I need a little "Jeff is trying to be funny/sarcastic" icon that shows when I'm attempting to make a funny. I knew what you meant and appreciate the sentiment.
rjcress
Active Member
This morning's progress:
-removed the engine hatch
-removed the carbs
-removed 2/3 of the hoses
-disconnected the battery
And Tom from SES called me to see what happened. I was straight-up honest with him, referred him to this thread if he wanted details, and said that I don't KNOW what caused the failure, but the most likely candidate is that I had one of the carb to intake gaskets on crooked which introduced a big air leak. He agreed that would do it and said that based on knowing that happened and the compression readings, that he didn't want me to take the head off or investigate further.... just pull the engine and get it back to him. He said several times, "please, if you ever have a problem like this call me. I'll help you sort it out" and "if a 2 stroke won't idle, DON'T RUN IT". When I let him know I'm ready he will create the shipping label and email it to me. I'll pay the cost of shipping, but since he gets much better shipping rates he will arrange the shipping. i thought that was nice, saving me a few bucks even though I'm costing him time and money.
I am a small business owner and understand that this kind of thing has got to be terrible for a small shop like SES. However, Tom was friendly and polite throughout the call.
He said that he hopes a top-end job will be all that is needed, but he will use a bore scope to inspect the bottom end and evaluate if any damage or debris is in there that would require bottom-end work. I hope to have the motor out of the boat tonight and ready to pick up tomorrow. I'll ask Tom to cut the shipping label for a Weds pick up just to be safe.
On a personal note, I sulked for about an hour last night as I was updating posts and waiting for my wife to fall asleep. Figured that I was in a bad mood, she was too... probably best to avoid any further discussions on the issue until we had both mellowed a bit. Also realized that I have FAR too much to do. No time for the liquor store or licking wounds. What's done is done. Onward and upward!
-removed the engine hatch
-removed the carbs
-removed 2/3 of the hoses
-disconnected the battery
And Tom from SES called me to see what happened. I was straight-up honest with him, referred him to this thread if he wanted details, and said that I don't KNOW what caused the failure, but the most likely candidate is that I had one of the carb to intake gaskets on crooked which introduced a big air leak. He agreed that would do it and said that based on knowing that happened and the compression readings, that he didn't want me to take the head off or investigate further.... just pull the engine and get it back to him. He said several times, "please, if you ever have a problem like this call me. I'll help you sort it out" and "if a 2 stroke won't idle, DON'T RUN IT". When I let him know I'm ready he will create the shipping label and email it to me. I'll pay the cost of shipping, but since he gets much better shipping rates he will arrange the shipping. i thought that was nice, saving me a few bucks even though I'm costing him time and money.
I am a small business owner and understand that this kind of thing has got to be terrible for a small shop like SES. However, Tom was friendly and polite throughout the call.
He said that he hopes a top-end job will be all that is needed, but he will use a bore scope to inspect the bottom end and evaluate if any damage or debris is in there that would require bottom-end work. I hope to have the motor out of the boat tonight and ready to pick up tomorrow. I'll ask Tom to cut the shipping label for a Weds pick up just to be safe.
On a personal note, I sulked for about an hour last night as I was updating posts and waiting for my wife to fall asleep. Figured that I was in a bad mood, she was too... probably best to avoid any further discussions on the issue until we had both mellowed a bit. Also realized that I have FAR too much to do. No time for the liquor store or licking wounds. What's done is done. Onward and upward!
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IDoSeaDoo
Well-Known Member
what did your plugs look like after it died? were they really light? this is why I don't go anywhere without my EGT sensors :/
If it makes you feel any better, I had two engine die in my boat this year. One from (I'm pretty sure) incorrect plugs, and another from overheating when the cooling sensor came out. The 2nd one was the newly rebuilt motor I put in to replace the 1st one. I forgot to tighten the damn cooling sensor. Imagine how I felt having two engines (crankshafts) die on me in just under a month!
If it makes you feel any better, I had two engine die in my boat this year. One from (I'm pretty sure) incorrect plugs, and another from overheating when the cooling sensor came out. The 2nd one was the newly rebuilt motor I put in to replace the 1st one. I forgot to tighten the damn cooling sensor. Imagine how I felt having two engines (crankshafts) die on me in just under a month!
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rjcress
Active Member
I lost compression, so the plugs were too wet to tell much of anything.
Can you share the details of this please? I should probably get some.
I have an IR thermometer, but it was on my big boat until last night... and I didn't have it with me for any of my initial break-in runs on the local lake... so it did me absolutely no good. at all.
Wow, dude.
Actually, it doesn't make me feel any better to hear that you suffered as well, but I do appreciate you sharing your painful story so I know I'm not the first to go through this kind of thing.
BTW... as soon as this engine is on its way back to SES I'm moving to putting the engine back in the GTX... which I had hoped to do BEFORE the Challenger, but my shoulder surgery recovery took longer than expected. Anyhow, Maybe I'll be able to bring the GTX to Jordan or Harris within the next month (I hope that didn't just jinx the GTX project).
Guest_User
New Member
yes indeed...
I don`t think I could wait, my curiosity would make me lose sleep, I`d have to look in the plug hole and then have a nightmare...:facepalm:
IDoSeaDoo
Well-Known Member
Sweet man, my other ski projects got held up on account of my Challenger as well. I'm getting freshly bored cylinders back from the machine shop today, and ordering two cranks as well. Going to finally get the skies back online to join the lonely GTS. If you go out to Jordan or Harris, let me know, I may join you.
As for EGTs, I bought the Koso dual set. It doesn't read water temp or rpms, but it does have a nice big side/side EGT readout to tell me how hot my exhaust temps are coming out. Knowing that Aluminum melts at 1218F, I opened my high needles to keep the EGTs around 1100F. You can program the gauges to turn red when they reach an alarm point, and blink red when they reach critical. I bought the kit for around $200 from a guy on ebay. It's a pretty tight unit, and I have no doubts that if water were to splash it, it would be okay. If it becomes submerged though, all bets are off. You have to drill two holes in your Y-pipe and thread them for a 3/16 compression fitting. I got the fittings and the tap at an old-skool hardware shop. I doubt Lowes or HD sell the taps but you may get lucky. Anyway, I ground down those two square tabs on the side of the exhaust mani and drilled my EGT probe holes right in the center of the square. This insured me that I was at the same place on both sides.
New, the Koso dual EGT setup costs around $260 on Amazon. I've already purchased everything needed to recreate this device using an arduino and a couple of generic K-type thermocouples. I guess I'll shoot for making it as accurate as the Koso. At the expense of more programming time and possibly more probes, I'll also have the ability to read other stuff like RPM, voltage, water temp and maybe more. Should be a fun project.
As for EGTs, I bought the Koso dual set. It doesn't read water temp or rpms, but it does have a nice big side/side EGT readout to tell me how hot my exhaust temps are coming out. Knowing that Aluminum melts at 1218F, I opened my high needles to keep the EGTs around 1100F. You can program the gauges to turn red when they reach an alarm point, and blink red when they reach critical. I bought the kit for around $200 from a guy on ebay. It's a pretty tight unit, and I have no doubts that if water were to splash it, it would be okay. If it becomes submerged though, all bets are off. You have to drill two holes in your Y-pipe and thread them for a 3/16 compression fitting. I got the fittings and the tap at an old-skool hardware shop. I doubt Lowes or HD sell the taps but you may get lucky. Anyway, I ground down those two square tabs on the side of the exhaust mani and drilled my EGT probe holes right in the center of the square. This insured me that I was at the same place on both sides.
New, the Koso dual EGT setup costs around $260 on Amazon. I've already purchased everything needed to recreate this device using an arduino and a couple of generic K-type thermocouples. I guess I'll shoot for making it as accurate as the Koso. At the expense of more programming time and possibly more probes, I'll also have the ability to read other stuff like RPM, voltage, water temp and maybe more. Should be a fun project.
rjcress
Active Member
Just finished boxing up the engine. UPS will pick it up and take it to SES tomorrow.
Fingers crossed for a quick turn-around.
I'll try to post some pics of what I could see through the exhaust ports later in the week. WAY too busy the next few days though.
BTW, I kept hearing what sounded like water sloshing around when I got the engine out of the boat.
My mind was racing trying to figure out how it got water in it and all of the possible things I'd have to look into to prevent it happening again. then I tipped it over and about a 1/2 cup of gas and oil ran out.
So... in my troubleshooting, when i thought I wasn't getting fuel to the engine... I was.:facepalm:
Fingers crossed for a quick turn-around.
I'll try to post some pics of what I could see through the exhaust ports later in the week. WAY too busy the next few days though.
BTW, I kept hearing what sounded like water sloshing around when I got the engine out of the boat.
My mind was racing trying to figure out how it got water in it and all of the possible things I'd have to look into to prevent it happening again. then I tipped it over and about a 1/2 cup of gas and oil ran out.
So... in my troubleshooting, when i thought I wasn't getting fuel to the engine... I was.:facepalm:
kicker
Well-Known Member
Did Tom give you a timeframe as to when he would have it completed? I know he has a delivered on time or its free policy but of course you already have the free part.
When I sent mine to him I called him every week to see how it was going, when it came to the last week I called looking for the ship date then a few days later called to make sure he gave me the tracking number. I didnt get the tracking number when he said I would so I called him again.
All in all mine was a day late but I stayed on top of him, not sure if it made any difference but it came pretty much on time. 3 weeks
When I sent mine to him I called him every week to see how it was going, when it came to the last week I called looking for the ship date then a few days later called to make sure he gave me the tracking number. I didnt get the tracking number when he said I would so I called him again.
All in all mine was a day late but I stayed on top of him, not sure if it made any difference but it came pretty much on time. 3 weeks
rjcress
Active Member
No. I should have asked for a date, but honestly, since I suspect that something I did caused the failure, I didn't feel like pushing him.
He did say a few times that he would get it back to me fast, and that he hopes that a top-end job will be all that is warranted.
IDoSeaDoo
Well-Known Member
I can tell you for a fact that they prioritize engine builds above all else. I tried ordering a few cranks from him last week and the lead time on that was 2 months. He said if I wanted it sooner, I should get the whole engine. Had to order cranks from next best source: they still use the connecting rods with the four oil windows, but use Japanese bearings instead of USA made. Got my fingers crossed that they're as good.
rjcress
Active Member
After months of saying I would shift focus to completing the GTX, I took the first steps this morning.
Likely not much to report in this Challenger project thread for a few weeks, but I'll be working away on the GTX and posting in that project thread:
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?61565-Project-Brother-In-Law-2000-GTX-DI
... in case anyone wants to go along for that ride.
Other stuff to do on the Challenger before the engine gets back:
-reconnect the gas "on" baffle outlet to the fuel selector input.
-reconnect the fuel selector output to spin-on filter
-reconnect the line from the spin-on filter to the carb input line
-clean the freshly oiled bilge.
and if I have time:
-install interior, bilge and transom underwater LED lights. Gotta think about this. I've got a couple of spools of bright white LED rope with 3M adhesive on the back. I've used it under the aft hard top on the big boat and LOVE it. Not sure if it will be too bright to use as interior lighting on the Challenger though. Don't really want to blind myself every time the lights are turned on. May have to be installed with a potentiometer as a dimmer.
Here is about 11 feet of the lights on the big boat (so bright it blurred the pic)
I think it will work awesome as underwater transom lighting though, as it it completely waterproof (as long as I water proof the 12v leads that power it). Should give a nice glow and provide light for boarding from the water at night.
-install stereo cover, head unit, speakers (not looking for a LOUD system, but I do want a radio with the NOAA weather function). I put this kit at the upper helm on my big boat at the beginning of last summer and am still happy with it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002J9GHKC/. Also put the black version of that kit in the main salon of the big boat, by the lower helm, and am happy with it also. Not a GREAT long term solution, but it fits the budget.
-order a sheet of grey blacktip mat per this thread: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...y-Blacktip-slate-gray-cut-groove-traction-mat I expect to only need about 1/2 of the sheet. If anyone needs some of the rest, let me know... maybe we can split the order.
-get and install rub rail insert.
Likely not much to report in this Challenger project thread for a few weeks, but I'll be working away on the GTX and posting in that project thread:
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?61565-Project-Brother-In-Law-2000-GTX-DI
... in case anyone wants to go along for that ride.
Other stuff to do on the Challenger before the engine gets back:
-reconnect the gas "on" baffle outlet to the fuel selector input.
-reconnect the fuel selector output to spin-on filter
-reconnect the line from the spin-on filter to the carb input line
-clean the freshly oiled bilge.
and if I have time:
-install interior, bilge and transom underwater LED lights. Gotta think about this. I've got a couple of spools of bright white LED rope with 3M adhesive on the back. I've used it under the aft hard top on the big boat and LOVE it. Not sure if it will be too bright to use as interior lighting on the Challenger though. Don't really want to blind myself every time the lights are turned on. May have to be installed with a potentiometer as a dimmer.
Here is about 11 feet of the lights on the big boat (so bright it blurred the pic)
I think it will work awesome as underwater transom lighting though, as it it completely waterproof (as long as I water proof the 12v leads that power it). Should give a nice glow and provide light for boarding from the water at night.
-install stereo cover, head unit, speakers (not looking for a LOUD system, but I do want a radio with the NOAA weather function). I put this kit at the upper helm on my big boat at the beginning of last summer and am still happy with it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002J9GHKC/. Also put the black version of that kit in the main salon of the big boat, by the lower helm, and am happy with it also. Not a GREAT long term solution, but it fits the budget.
-order a sheet of grey blacktip mat per this thread: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...y-Blacktip-slate-gray-cut-groove-traction-mat I expect to only need about 1/2 of the sheet. If anyone needs some of the rest, let me know... maybe we can split the order.
-get and install rub rail insert.
IDoSeaDoo
Well-Known Member
And here I thought I was going to the first and only guy out there with an LED lit up Challenger I went with blue, but mistakenly ordered the non-waterproof ones. Going to "waterproof" them and use them on the interior. How much did that spool cost you? Is that the 16' one? I may have bad news about your potentiometer idea: I don't think you can just lower voltage to dim them. I believe it's done by quickly turning power on/off to them, but I could be wrong. I just know that the LED's in my 9V flashlight are the same intensity as the ones plugged into the 19V strip.
I went with blue, but mistakenly ordered the non-waterproof ones. Going to "waterproof" them and use them on the interior. How much did that spool cost you? Is that the 16' one? I may have bad news about your potentiometer idea: I don't think you can just lower voltage to dim them. I believe it's done by quickly turning power on/off to them, but I could be wrong. I just know that the LED's in my 9V flashlight are the same intensity as the ones plugged into the 19V strip.
LED transom light--drain plug kit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-LED-Se..._Watercraft_Parts&hash=item3cc34bf0ad&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-LED-Se..._Watercraft_Parts&hash=item3cc34bf0ad&vxp=mtr
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
rjcress
Active Member
And here I thought I was going to the first and only guy out there with an LED lit up Challenger
hehehe. Yeah. Dimming LEDs in 12v applications is well documented online and I'll research before implementation.
I got 2 rolls of this on sale for $35.98+ $8.99 shipping = ~$45, or ~$22.50 per roll:
http://www.meritline.com/waterproof-led-strips-white-16-feet---p-72364.aspx
rjcress
Active Member
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
rjcress
Active Member
I sent a note to SES this morning to let them know that the engine was picked up by UPS yesterday and ask when he expects it to be done. Here is the reply:
"I'll look at it as soon as it gets here it will be shipped out next week
Sent from seadoo engine shop"
That is pretty friggin' impressive, if you asked me.
"I'll look at it as soon as it gets here it will be shipped out next week
Sent from seadoo engine shop"
That is pretty friggin' impressive, if you asked me.
Guest_User
New Member
where are the pics of the damage? did you find out what failed before you sent it out?
rjcress
Active Member
Just haven't had time to post the pics yet.
I felt either a hole or a dent the size of my finger tip in the center of the face of the mag piston... couldn't see it, but felt it.
I never saw any impact damage on the spark plugs, so I'm guessing either it melted, or there was something else in there.
Guest_User
New Member
hmmm, that`s not what I was expecting to see. looks like a lean seizure, looks like it got hot, and it looks like the RAVE valve could have touched. I`m curious as to what SES says...
I would have thought the ring land would have been melted from heat/deto
I would have thought the ring land would have been melted from heat/deto
jhjesse
Well-Known Member
rjcress
Active Member
Here is how the email conversation went with Tom at SES:
Jeff: What did you find, Tom
Tom: It was super lean one piston the back half was melted off and other one was almost melted through.
Jeff: Yow! Did the bottom end need any attention? Still think it will ship next week?
Tom: Cleaning it all out its perfect. yes it will leave the end of next week
Jeff: What did you find, Tom
Tom: It was super lean one piston the back half was melted off and other one was almost melted through.
Jeff: Yow! Did the bottom end need any attention? Still think it will ship next week?
Tom: Cleaning it all out its perfect. yes it will leave the end of next week
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