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RESTO Project Dog House: 1996 Challenger

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ok, if your oil pump cable and oil pump adjustments are correct, then you are receiving the necc oil for that set up.

as long as you don`t see any air bubbles or leaks in the system you should be GTG.

and for rule of thumb for anyone premixing...
the ratio is 40:1

def read up on the RAVE`s, it can drive you nuts troubleshooting if you don`t check that they are functioning properly and it can caost rpm`s up top, and performance loss as well...

you should feel an abrupt change is acceleration when those guillotines pop open, like someone kicked it in the azz!...lol...

I believe I don`t have my red adjusters screw all the way down, I think I have them at 1 turn out. there was a service bulletin a few years ago on the correct adjustment for these boats...
you`ll have to poke around the forum, or maybe Doc knows and he can just spit out the info...

Mine open between 5.5-6k rpms, you`ll feel the transition when you speed up and slow down, you would also feel a surge feeling if you are in the transition spot where the valve opens and closes again, just avoid that, either run with them open or less rpms when cruising when they are closed...
 
I think I'm getting somewhere. Here is what the FSM says about testing the rectifier/regulator:

"DYNAMIC TEST
1. Disconnect the RED lead coming out of the
rectifier / regulator.
2. Connect the multimeter + lead to the rectifier /
regulator RED wire and the - lead to ground.
3. With the engine running at 5500 RPM, DC output
should be above 13.5 volts, but below 14.8
volts. If voltage is above or below these readings,
the rectifier / regulator is defective and
needs to be replaced."​


I had my voltmeter set on the 20V scale and it topped out before I got to 5500 RPM... as in it was reading more than 20VDC.

I'll be ordering a new rectifier.

Also, I put the boost pack on the battery for a few minutes before starting for the test. I called it a jump start pack before, but I guess it is technically a boost pack, as it doesn't give extra juice for starting. Rather, you hook it up and wait 10-15 minutes for it to slowly transfer some charge to the battery.
The engine started quickly and didn't require any throttle to keep it running... like it did when I ran it last yesterday.

And I adjusted the idle speed screw a touch to bring it back to 1500.
 
Just ordered a rectifier from Nick (minnetonka4me) and bunch of new sparkplugs from Amazon.
Just have to get more oil and I should be set. :)
 
Rode 30+ miles this morning. :)
When there is any wake or chop this little boat bounces all over the place.
But getting out early when the water is glassy... wow!

I still haven't reinstalled the speedometer, so no idea what it would say, but the GPS on my phone says that I'm topping out around 42 mph with about 250 lb of me and gear, plus 1/2 tank of gas.

I can definitely feel the raves kick in around 5300 or so.
 
so your cruising around with high voltage as reported earlier? or did you swap out that rectifier already?

5300 for the Raves is in range, where are the red adjusters turned at?

what did you wind up doing for oil?

did you buy into the snake oil Amsoil yet? it would have been at your door already...lol...
 
Pale Rider said:
so your cruising around with high voltage as reported earlier? or did you swap out that rectifier already?.
Click to expand...
It is a calculated risk, I know, but using it as-is today until the new rectifier arrives later this week.

Pale Rider said:
5300 for the Raves is in range, where are the red adjusters turned at?.
Click to expand...
Good question. I'll check when I get a chance.

Pale Rider said:
what did you wind up doing for oil?.
Click to expand...
I'll just pick up more Quicksilver synthetic at Walmart. I had thought they had stocking issues with it, but now realize that Quicksilver changed the bottle, so I can't just look for the black bottle... the synthetic is now sold in Gray bottles as well.

Pale Rider said:
did you buy into the snake oil Amsoil yet? it would have been at your door already...lol...
Click to expand...
I haven't completely ruled it out yet, but it will take some strong scientific evidence supporting the popular claims that it is the best stuff out there. The evidence may be available, but I haven't had time to look for it yet.

I run an online sales consultancy and the sales and marketing departments at a top marketing agency. If the product really is as good as they say, they could be soooooooooo much bigger if they marketed it differently. With this in mind, it seems fishy that they stick to the MLM model and don't submit their products for certification testing.
As a rule, if any merchant requires me to pay for the right to buy their products (membership fee, etc.), then I pass. I'm happy to pay for the products themselves, but am not keen to participate in the manipulation/mind game that comes with the "membership" sales model (ie. "I paid for the membership, so now I'm wasting that investment if I buy anywhere else").
 
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Cool Read. I hope you have good luck with the boat in the future.

I have a question that goes way back to page one. You said you "heat treated" the green plastic to bring back the color. What exactly is that process? I need to try it on one of my old boats.
 
Mini Trail said:
Cool Read. I hope you have good luck with the boat in the future.

I have a question that goes way back to page one. You said you "heat treated" the green plastic to bring back the color. What exactly is that process? I need to try it on one of my old boats.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It has been an interesting challenge(r).
For info on the heat treating process start on page 2 of the following thread, around post #32. That is where I heard about it.
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?56482-1996-Challenger-800-Resto-Refresh
 
Got 3 gallons of Quicksilver PWC synthetic at Wallyworld yesterday for about $39 each. The rectifier and spark plugs arrived today.
Back to the lake tomorrow, so I should be able to install the rectifier Friday night or Saturday morning and see if it solves the issue.
 
Installed rectifier. Didn't help with hard starting. Still needed 15-20 seconds of cranking while giving it gas to get it to start. Once running, it did fine... For about 45 minutes of riding around with the whole family onboard (me, wife, kids aged 8,9,10, & our Boxer). Then about 4 seconds after slowing to idle for a no wake area a loud rattling noise came from the engine. After maybe 5 seconds the engine stopped. It still rattled when I opened the engine hatch to see if I could see anything amiss while I cranked it. I was thinking maybe the noise was coming from the starter, but wasn't sure. Then the rattle stopped. It still wouldn't start. Pulled the plugs and found the PTO side with nearly no gap. I saw no impact marks on the plug or piston (shined a light down the plug hole) and know that the gap was fine last time I checked them, less than an hour of operation earlier. Put different plugs in and it still wouldn't start.
The engine turns over fine.
Noticed that as I cranked the engine the fuel was draining from the clear G2 fuel filter. I put a paper towel over each plug hole and cranked some more... no gas on the paper towel. I removed the cup on the stock spin-on filter. It was full of gas, and there was a little debris on the screen and in the cup, so I dumped it wiped the screen and bowl with a paper towel, blew through the screen and reinstalled.

Hmmm.
Changed to the reserve fuel pickup... still no gas filling the spin on filter bowl or the G2 filter.
Checked compression and got about 145 on each cylinder, and hooked up the spark checker... good spark on each cylinder. BTW, holding the spark checker while cranking is fine, unless the ground wire comes loose. That was a shocking experience :rolleyes:

Then someone from another dock at my marina drove by and asked if we needed towed (we were at another marina about 2 miles from our home marina). So, I put up the tools and tied up for the slow "ride of shame".

When we got back I got new plugs (had left them on the big boat) and installed. I've cranked it several times with the new plugs and the MAG side plug is still bone dry. The PTO side plug was also dry for the first 3 attempts at starting, but the fuel system seems to have re-primed and the MAG side is now getting gas.

I pulled the airbox and spark arrestor off so I could verify that there was nothing in the carb throats and that the butterflies for throttle and choke were working (all looked fine). I put the spark arrestor and airbox back on.

So, it appears that I have good spark and compression, but am not getting fuel.
I don't know much about how the rotary valve works, but I'm wondering if the initial rattling noise could have been the rotary valve drive teeth failing. If the MAG side intake port is blocked by the rotary valve then that would explain why it isn't getting gas.
Hmmmm. I guess a totally clogged fuel filter in the carb or clogged orifice(s) might also do that... but it was running strong at 6k+ RPM for several minutes before it died... and a clogged carb wouldn't make a rattling... especially one loud enough to hear with the shelf and hatch over the engine.

I came in for dinner and was about to go back take the airbox and spark arrestor off again so I could see if the rotary valve still spins when the engine turns over. However, the sky opened up and it was raining sideways. All of the covered slips are full this weekend, so it is sitting out in the rain. I opted not to go out in the rain. It just stopped raining while I was typing, and now it is dark. I need to stop, get a shower, and play with the kids, so I'll likely deal with this in the morning.

Once it is running again, the Challenger will be adorned with a shiny new For Sale sign.
I've had enough of this shit. This isn't remotely fun any more. Even when the boat runs, I don't trust it and likely never will.
 
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rjcress said:
Once it is running again, the Challenger will be adorned with a shiny new For Sale sign.
I've had enough of this shit.
Click to expand...

wow, well with quite a few gremlins still active with the boat maybe this is a good call...

what caused the plug gap to close shut? rattling could indicate blown RV gear or bearing, you won`t knopw until you look in the carb and see the RV rotating as you mentioned...

I understand your frustration, time and expense, maybe it`s time to call it a day with this one... only you would know for sure...

Good luck and hope you find a simple resolution.
 
I hate to let this beat me, but I just don't have the time to keep putting into this.
Already, my personal life and work are suffering because of the time I've put into this.
 
Pale Rider said:
wow, well with quite a few gremlins still active with the boat maybe this is a good call...

what caused the plug gap to close shut? rattling could indicate blown RV gear or bearing, you won`t knopw until you look in the carb and see the RV rotating as you mentioned...

I understand your frustration, time and expense, maybe it`s time to call it a day with this one... only you would know for sure...
Good luck and hope you find a simple resolution.
Click to expand...

I am completely lost on the disappearing plug gap. No idea. Not even a weak theory.
 
rjcress said:
I hate to let this beat me, but I just don't have the time to keep putting into this.
Already, my personal life and work are suffering because of the time I've put into this.
Click to expand...
maybe just take a break and put this on the back burner for another day. at least diagnose the engine issue to rule out the RV so to omit another warranty rebuild...

I agree about the time spent repairing, I wish I had those 550 hours+ back and wished our boat was a honest deal instead of what I was dealt with... it all worked out, but the time away from family and the dollars spent to resurrect was not welcomed.

good luck in whichever you choose.:)
 
Removed the air box again and confirmed this morning that the rotary valve is not spinning when the engine spins.
This has me wondering if the timing was off, as that is part of what SES does before the send the engine back... or if something happened to alter the timing... ie. I've never done anything to adjust the timing
 
Pale Rider said:
maybe just take a break and put this on the back burner for another day. at least diagnose the engine issue to rule out the RV so to omit another warranty rebuild...

I agree about the time spent repairing, I wish I had those 550 hours+ back and wished our boat was a honest deal instead of what I was dealt with... it all worked out, but the time away from family and the dollars spent to resurrect was not welcomed.

good luck in whichever you choose.:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the continued support, Andy.
I have thought about just parking it in the extra garage and revisiting it in the fall/winter when i have more time. At this point, I need to get my money out of it and move on. If I thought that after this is repaired I would trust the boat not to leave me stranded unexpectedly again, then I'd likely consider keeping it... But at this point, no one in my family trusts it and the thought of taking for a ride is stressful for everyone.
In many ways it has been a very interesting project. I don't really believe in dwelling on mistakes or regrets... that time is better spent moving forward.
I'll put some of the time I was putting towards the boat to my work, and some towards other projects that have suffered, like fixing some stuff on my house.

I emailed Tom at SES and will be interested to see how he responds. He has been great to work with so far.
I don't know what the typical causes of RV failures are, but I can't think of anything that I did that would contribute to this. I've been running pre-mix and the oil injection (while I tried to get a handle on what ratio the injection system is providing), so i don't think it was lack of lubrication. Whatever it was, the RV appeared to stop dead in it's tracks, as the noise I heard sounded like gears slipping, but was higher pitched than big internal gears... almost like a very quick, repetitive sheet metal rattle.

I've moved the boat over by the boat ramp and will put it on the trailer to go home in an hour or so. Off to play with the kids and dog for a while before then. :)
 
For me, I don't give in no matter how bad I'm

3.gif
 
oh man... just what I suspected this time around...

there is no way you did any of this recent boom. If there was oil in the oil tank and oil in the supply and return, no way was it dry...
all things considering, SES replaced the top end, and a bottom end after catastrophic failure. Something was def overlooked on their part...
this makes 3 strikes for them...

now if the boat were in very good to great shape, then I would possible take it on the chin as lesson learned and get a reman from another company and rid yourself from this engine... Bad voodoo right there. cost money yes, evaluate that against the time you already put in and what it would sell for now VS a bandaid repair and sell... anyone can look up info on the net and see the hardship you had with this one... unless you have this thread deleted or the outcome is positive in the end...

But given the electrical issues yet to be sorted correctly (more time) you just have to come to some kind of closure with this project...
up to you bro!...

I`d be curious as to what closed the plug gap, maybe another bearing in the ROD let go and the piston smacked the plug if that is even possible... at this point id the RV gear shredded, the case needs to be cleaned, and I would pull the motor for a full disassembly again...

Good Luck Homie... wish I had a spare engine around to loan ya for the rest of the season...
 
Tom @ SES called. Said to send it back.
Said he couldn't see how I could have caused this or the last issue. Said he may send me a different engine this time.
Also that he thought it just needed a bottom end last time, but did a full rebuild to be sure it was all correct.
 
rjcress said:
Tom @ SES called. Said to send it back.
Said he couldn't see how I could have caused this or the last issue. Said he may send me a different engine this time.
Also that he thought it just needed a bottom end last time, but did a full rebuild to be sure it was all correct.
Click to expand...

see, it`s getting better already! now go enjoy a brew!lol...
 
I don't think "a brew" is going to cut it.
Unless it is a REALLY big one...Keg1.jpg
 
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rjcress said:
Once it is running again, the Challenger will be adorned with a shiny new For Sale sign.
I've had enough of this shit. This isn't remotely fun any more. Even when the boat runs, I don't trust it and likely never will.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that, but yeah if it's not fun and you can't trust it on the water better to get rid of it. Since you bought it so cheap and did the work yourself hopefully you'll make a little money on the deal.
 
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