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2001 Seadoo Sportster LE. Just got it!

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putting oil in the cylinder or on the piston is skewing your comp test numbers!!!

you are filling the cross hatch lines with oil creating more of a complete seal... no matter how many times you crank it after wards...

Cold engine, throttle open fully, crank for 5 revolutions and look at the gauge... that is your number...

I don`t recommend doing a hot test at all... I never pull a plug from a hot aluminum head ever, regardless of what you read or hear... always try and do what you need to do to a cool engine...

spark plug torque values are different from ambient temps to hot, and you don`t want to stretch or strip the plug threads in the head...

You are right. The oil gives about 10PSI more. The cold engine is about 125/130PSI as I posted yesterday. But I don't think 5 revolutions will get my gauge to peak. I didn't count, it was about 2 seconds.

Good reminder about torque on the plug. Somebody warned me in the thread before.
Now I have a shorter torque wrench to easily do this. :-)
Is there a nominal "spec"? I have been using a socket tube and a screw driver
 
Oh come on! Okay, let's swing this dead cat.....
So how cold is cold? Certainly I think less than 100*C qualifies?:

Snap-On:

"The compression test consists of measuring cylinder
pressure at cranking speed. Use the test results to
determine the condition of pistons, rings, valves, and
gaskets. It is good procedure to perform a compression
test prior to performing a tune-up.
Certain conditions affect the compression readings.
These conditions must be understood before testing.
• If the engine turns slowly, gauge readings are lower.
Be sure battery and starter system are in good
condition. The engine must turn at the same speed for
all cylinders.
• Open throttle plates and choke plate to allow the
engine to breathe. Be sure air is not restricted from
entering into the cylinders.
• Temperature of the engine must be at operating
temperature. A cold engine does not insure proper
tolerances, lubrication at the rings, or proper ring
seating.
Engines with aluminum heads require special care to
prevent stripping the spark plug threads. Since
aluminum cylinder threads are less likely to strip
when the engine is cold, it is good procedure to
prepare for a compression test by loosening and
retightening the spark plugs when the engine is cold.
3 Before removing spark plugs, always clean dirt
from around the plugs by directing an air nozzle
at the base of the plug. This insures proper
seating of the compression adaptor and the new
spark plugs. Apply a drop of oil to threads and
hand tighten when installing and removing
compression adaptors.
• Remove all spark plugs from the engine. Failure to
remove all spark plugs could affect the test results."

http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/usermanual/zmt308l.pdf
 
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Is there a nominal "spec"? I have been using a socket tube and a screw driver

You're fine with that IMO, a lose plug dancing around 5000x/min will wear the threads quickly. "Wrist tight" with a 4 inch lever is enuff to make a good seal with a metal gasket IMO but grab a calibrated torque wrench and follow the NGK spec if my opinion is inadequate.
 
I'm not going to dig through 40 years of shop manuals for OMC, Mercury, Yamaha to quote page and procedure but they all share a common edict at testing compression at or near *normal operating range* for temperature up to and including t-stat equipped engines.

Run it before you test it.
 
I'm not going to dig through 40 years of shop manuals for OMC, Mercury, Yamaha to quote page and procedure but they all share a common edict at testing compression at or near *normal operating range* for temperature up to and including t-stat equipped engines.

Run it before you test it.

Exactly. Thanks for confirming we haven't entered the twilight zone! :)
 
The operative concept is to attempt measuring operating conditions, thus it is correct to say the cylinder(and rings) should not be flooded with oil but should have a "normal" quantity of lubricant on them (This is only possible if the engine was recently running).:

"Temperature of the engine must be at operating
temperature. A cold engine does not insure proper
tolerances, lubrication at the rings, or proper ring
seating."
 
Twilight zone???
Good God man, have some common sense please...

I should have rephrased my wording... I don`t mean cold as in 3 weeks cold... just not hot hot hot... in 35 years I`ve never pulled a hot plug from a hot head unless it was a cast iron cylinder head after the plug was previously removed during diagnostics...

you guys do your thing and I`ll do mine...

just didn`t want to see the guy rip a plug out while the engine was smoking hot, which is what it sounded like he was going to do...

and I have witnessed and repaired many whom owners have hand tighten a 2 stroke plug and it came loose, what do you think happens next?

But you guys are the pro`s...
I`m sure we have all seen examples, and I`m not going to reiterate 35 years of Ford, Kubota, JD, Case, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Yamaha, Tec, B&S, RM, etc etc procedures... man you guys need to go fishing or something and not live on the forum...
 
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Thanks guys. I think you guys just took the view from "cold" and "hot" stated in my questions. And trying to make sure I don't do silly thing when it is "hot" and don't get wrong readings when it is "cold".
Forum is fantastic. It is part of Internet. Without this forum, I would have missed my dream of touching an engine. It is not just about technical, it is active, which makes it live, and makes it emotional sometime.
This forum has been part of my life in the last 8 months. Technologies do change people's life. Imagine what can a smartphone do to breaking in an boat engine? The last 20 posts will tell you the answer.
Have a wonderful night my friends.
 
In summary:
"I don`t recommend doing a hot test at all..."
"Run it before you test it."
"Twilight Zone"
Snap-On:
"Temperature of the engine must be at operating
temperature. A cold engine does not insure proper
tolerances, lubrication at the rings, or proper ring
seating."
 
Yesterday was a lucky day. We got out of the lake just before a severe thunderstorm. It was pouring when we are on the highway.
There were a few speed boats went back into the lake when they saw the sun coming out while waiting at the ramp, but that was the brief relief before the storm! Not sure how it will be in such a pouring storm.
 
Engine died out around 2500PRM in acceleration

Yesterday we did tubing and water ski. With 3 adults in the boat, it was pretty hard to get a good acceleration to get a beginner (my niece) out of the water.
She said she got up no problem a week ago with her friends with a bigger boat. I will try two person on board next time.

The boat ran well in about 2.5 hours. There is only one glitch on the lake after I restarted the boat, I push the throttle up as normal, when the RPM reaching in 2000-3000 range, it lost its power and dropped to 0 as if it was a "software landing". Then I restarted it right away, no problem this time. Is it because I didn't idle long enough? But the engine at that time was "warm".
 
Yesterday was a lucky day. We got out of the lake just before a severe thunderstorm. It was pouring when we are on the highway.
There were a few speed boats went back into the lake when they saw the sun coming out while waiting at the ramp, but that was the brief relief before the storm! Not sure how it will be in such a pouring storm.

I feel it's too dangerous and you made the right choice to leave.
 
Compression test report after a "hard" run day.

I was putting a lot of load on the boat yesterday. 4 adults. 7-foot tube, and trying to get the skier up again and again.
The boat also got soaked on our way home :-D

I did the "maintenance" in the morning.

Started the engine, it ran away to 3800PRM before I cut it off, which is exactly same before the rebuild.

Then, I turned the idle screw 1/4 turn out, It started at 1500RPM and in a few seconds it smoothly increased to 3000PRM and stayed there for 20 seconds. No run away this time.
As Sportster mentioned a couple of times, the idle speed was set too high. But I probably will put the 1/4 turn back, because I know without that 1/4 turn, it won't idle well for a long time, especially for cold start.

So after about 30 seconds of run, the cylinder head is warm. Now I did the compression test. PTO 130PSI, MAG 131PSI. I am happy :-)

Then I did "my" normal things: added XPS oil into the spark plug, and also inspected the RAVE. I added oil into Rave port too, because the piston skirt looks just dry too me, even the spark plug and RAVE blades are showing "oily".

Through the RAVE port inspection, I didn't see new scratches on the piston. But I saw some yellow/brown burn mark just below the top ring, is it normal or it has been running too hot?
 
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I feel it's too dangerous and you made the right choice to leave.

The storm was so severe for at least 15 minutes then changed to normal heavy rain. In that 15 minutes, I could hardly see through the windshield on the highway, even with a pair of windshield wipers at highest speed!

A lesson learned: it takes a while to come from the lake to the ramp, and it takes a longer while to load on your trailer when there are 8 boats lined up.
 
Sounds like a fuel issue, empty carb. That's one of those fine lines of metering arm adjustment and pop off pressure.

On Edit:

Go and read my post #7 in this thread about pressure testing: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?73133-HELP-I-m-starting-to-HATE-this-boat

So it has nothing to do with me pushing the throttle up, it just simply used up the fuel in the carb and died, as if somebody forgot to turn on the fuel switch?

I will take off the carb and do the pressure test when I have a chance. Or I will bring the boat out if the weather clears out in the next few days, and experiment more to see if I have described the symptoms correctly.
 
Yes, it does. It has a cam pushing the diaphragm.

So, I'm not convinced you have a leak or pop off issue quite yet as the boat seems to be running about perfect otherwise. Check and see if the small brass fuel restrictor fitting is still in the end of the fuel supply line to the accelerator pump. If it's missing your accelerator pump may be scavenging to much fuel from the carb circuits when you mash into the throttle.
 
So, I'm not convinced you have a leak or pop off issue quite yet as the boat seems to be running about perfect otherwise. Check and see if the small brass fuel restrictor fitting is still in the end of the fuel supply line to the accelerator pump. If it's missing your accelerator pump may be scavenging to much fuel from the carb circuits when you mash into the throttle.

I was moving the throttle slowly up at that time. Is it possible the air in the bilge doesn't have enough oxygen?
 
So, I'm not convinced you have a leak or pop off issue quite yet as the boat seems to be running about perfect otherwise. Check and see if the small brass fuel restrictor fitting is still in the end of the fuel supply line to the accelerator pump. If it's missing your accelerator pump may be scavenging to much fuel from the carb circuits when you mash into the throttle.

Is the restrictor fitting in this picture?
947dualcarbset.jpg
 
I was moving the throttle slowly up at that time. Is it possible the air in the bilge doesn't have enough oxygen?

Yes, that is a known issue with the sealed engine compartments on these boats although the fuel injected motors are much more sensitive to that. You are better to not baby the throttle when you accelerate the boat, the carb tuning will respond better to one firm push of the throttle that allows the accelerator pump to mist both carbs and the high side should take over and run the motor from there.
 
Yes, that is a known issue with the sealed engine compartments on these boats although the fuel injected motors are much more sensitive to that. You are better to not baby the throttle when you accelerate the boat, the carb tuning will respond better to one firm push of the throttle that allows the accelerator pump to mist both carbs and the high side should take over and run the motor from there.

Thanks. I was definitely too "baby" to the throttle, which probably is the answer.
 
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