The Seadoo Engine Shop (SES) - Review

[howie099]

Ok, I have to post this to help out other people that might end up with issue or let me know if you had this issue with SES. Right about 2 years ago I sent my 657x engine off to get a premium rebuild that holds a 2 year no fault warranty. I got it back in like 90 days or so. Put the ski in water it ran for 10 minutes tops. 1 cylinder lost compression. Had it like 32:1 with the oil injection still on. Never we over 10-15 miles per hour. The slowest I ever drove one except in a no wake. Sent it in for warranty in July 2013 got it back in like end of October 2013 after like 4 weeks of them telling me they kept on shipping it and than it was lost and than it was found. I finally got it since it is now cold in Chicago which I am pretty sure they did this so I couldn't use the ski the rest of the year to not break it again. Come on it makes just at the end of October when I couldn't even test it on the water.

This time the engine was dirty just like I sent it them since my hands were dirty removing it and all they did was take the topend. Put in new pistons, rings, and gaskets. You can tell since the paint was only disturbed on the head bolts. You think since I paid for this I would get it back much quicker than 4 months. Plus to do a topend doesn't take 120 days. I know it is in season but I paid for my engine already. I had to pay $65 to ship the engine to him which is stated but not getting any new install gaskets kind of sucked. So I am now and extra $100 in this engine.

This 2nd one I put on about 10 hours on it and a main water hose failed. Went pop and the screw clamp failed. I heard the water hissing but it was to late since the power band dropped real fast. So now I am in July 2014 this was the 6th I had the ski on the water. Called up still under warranty so I sent it in. I was worried since it took forever to get it with all the so called shipping mishaps last time.

It is now May 2015 the 2 year warranty is up and I still have no engine. The engine has been getting fixed for 10 months. I did call in the off months like every month to check on it. In Feb I stated to call every week. Told me waiting for gaskets finally and its ready to ship. In the middle of March I stated to call 2 times and week and I was finally told it shipped like 5 weeks ago. It doesn't take 5 week from PA to IL. 2-3 days tops for shipping.

So as of the 4th of May 2015 I am still waiting for my engine. Right now I don't care if it works. I just need to engine back. I can't fix it myself for send it off since I don't have a core.

Now I know I am the a rare person that broke the engine twice under warranty. I don't think I did anything wrong the first time. I think the tolerances were to close in the rebuild or something like that. I have fix and done topends before so I know enough to do an R&R. The 2nd one I will take hit. I was my fault there but he gives a 2 year no fault warranty. Would I recommend them to other people? I won't answer that until I get the engine back since I need it. I will just let everyone come to their own conclusion.

Sorry for this being so long I just don't want to see other people end up like this. In case this goes bad anyone have a 657x engine? Might need one..

 

[AdamXP800]

Thank you for the review. It's always good to get reviews on a company, good or bad



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[AdamXP800]

SES has definitely treated you unfairly here. 10 months is ridiculous and I would be highly pissed!!!



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[SaltyBones]

Thank you for posting this, as I have been considering SES for a potential rebuild at the end of the summer.

 

[Luv2Camp]

Did you press him for a tracking number? Hope it all works out for you QUICKLY!

 

[XP 787]

I can deff understand you're frustration. I hope it all works out for you very soon as it is now riding season.

 

[bajaman123]

Yeah, that definitely sucks.
Many years ago I had a similar thing happen on an engine I had being built for a Triumph car I owned. The engine itself was completed in decent time but then I waited another 10 months on a special exhaust system to be installed. Real long story short, I finally get the car back, and the engine fails within a couple of days of running. Turns out they'd put oversize bearings on the crank. Now, this engine had a '12 month/12,000 mile' warranty. But...and you can see where this is going...since nearly 14 months had gone by since the shop claimed they completed the long block (sans exhaust), it was "out of warranty". I was out over three grand on this deal, and was stonewalled and put off on every attempt to get them to do something. In the end the shop filed bankruptcy and closed before I could attempt any sort of lawsuit (which my lawyer said at the time was something that I'd probably never see a dime from).
Anyway, it is good to hear your personal experience. SOMETHING just wasn't right with that engine from Day One on the rebuild...many things can go wrong including inexperienced mechanics simply screwing it up...but it still amazes me to this day, ESPECIALLY in this day of social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc) that a business doesn't realize they can be undone by poor Customer Service.
Hopefully reps from SES will see this and respond, after all there ARE always two sides to a story.

 

[howie099]

I would have to say about 1 out of 10 calls they pick up the phone live. Which I am fine with that I am sure the phone rings alot but it take about 3-5 days for a call back on this issue. Like last week I called Monday and Wednesday and he left me a message on Thursday saying he got my messages and will call me back . Still waiting for my tracking number. I have used Fullbore out of Michigan for like 4 topends and I have had very good turn around times with them. My next engine I will go to him.

To me it is really not the time the engine has been gone since it was the middle of winter but how can it take weeks to ship an engine.

 

[bajaman123]

lol...you may not HAVE an engine anymore! I've seen disreputable shops play the 'shell game' with things like engines; where they owe say...five but have TWO they can send to the customer that is bitching the loudest...

 

[Waterluvr]

I wonder what the real issue at hand is here? There's always two sides to a story, and this just doesn't add up based on my experience with SES.

I'm using them exclusively for engines as of last year, he treats my customers and their engines like gold absolutely zero communication issues ever and I've only had one minor issue with shipping damage he fixed on his dime poste haste.

Tom's bent over backwards to accommodate the work I'm sending him to keep up with my schedule and what I get back runs better than any rebuilder's product I have used to date and I'm sending him many, many engines one right after another this season and quite a few last year. It was his quality work and service that earned all of my business for this season and there's nothing he could be doing better or differently at this point to improve on it.

When I have a question, it's gets answered same day every time Sunday's included and the turn around time is 30 days or less whether I'm installing the motor or it's a DIY referral I give him a heads up on and most motors ship back to me in 10 days or less from the time he receives them.

I wonder how it is that I, and every single person I've referred to them has had such a uniquely different experience than the issues you've had OP?

 

[Hicktown]

Sorry to hear about your experience. I sent my engine to full bore and after one full season it is still runnin strong. I still have 2 more summers under warranty as well. Turnaround time was a few months, but that was for the winter special and he told me it would take that long in advance.

Had to install new rave valves last summer, and of course you have to trim your new raves to match the length of the old ones. Dan told me to send in the raves and he cut them down for me to exact size of the old ones for no charge. Could not be happier with full bore so far.

 

[AdamXP800]

I would have to say about 1 out of 10 calls they pick up the phone live. Which I am fine with that I am sure the phone rings alot but it take about 3-5 days for a call back on this issue. Like last week I called Monday and Wednesday and he left me a message on Thursday saying he got my messages and will call me back . Still waiting for my tracking number. I have used Fullbore out of Michigan for like 4 topends and I have had very good turn around times with them. My next engine I will go to him.

To me it is really not the time the engine has been gone since it was the middle of winter but how can it take weeks to ship an engine.

It's funny, email or call and say you are wanting an engine rebuilt and he'll call back immediately. I called him when I was in the market for a reman just for some info and he must of called me 15 times asking if I was ready to send my engine



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[AdamXP800]

I wonder what the real issue at hand is here? There's always two sides to a story, and this just doesn't add up based on my experience with SES.

I'm using them exclusively for engines as of last year, he treats my customers and their engines like gold absolutely zero communication issues ever and I've only had one minor issue with shipping damage he fixed on his dime poste haste.

Tom's bent over backwards to accommodate the work I'm sending him to keep up with my schedule and what I get back runs better than any rebuilder's product I have used to date and I'm sending him many, many engines one right after another this season and quite a few last year. It was his quality work and service that earned all of my business for this season and there's nothing he could be doing better or differently at this point to improve on it.

When I have a question, it's gets answered same day every time Sunday's included and the turn around time is 30 days or less whether I'm installing the motor or it's a DIY referral I give him a heads up on and most motors ship back to me in 10 days or less from the time he receives them.

I wonder how it is that I, and every single person I've referred to them has had such a uniquely different experience than the issues you've had OP?

That's all good and well that he takes care of his "top" customers, but he needs to give the same service to the 1 time buyer.
This is not the first story I've heard like this in reference to Tom



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[Waterluvr]

That's all good and well that he takes care of his "top" customers, but he needs to give the same service to the 1 time buyer.
This is not the first story I've heard like this in reference to Tom



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

Every single person I have referred to SES has been a first time buyer, there's lots of them shall I bother them to come waste their time to participate in this train wreck of a thread?

It's the internet, people are full of BS when they get butthurt and rant and rave and there's far to many narcissistic people like you that have ZERO personal experience with a service provider that like to pile on to fan the flames when someone with a gripe airs it whether it's legit or not.

Go have him do an engine for you and report back, until then your opinion based on what you read elsewhere is right up there with a flock of parrots.

I probably shouldn't have wasted my time posting in this but wanted readers to know just what a bunch of bullshit it really is.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Easy waterluvr, every business has good and bad reviews. This is not the first time that there has been an issue with the amount of time it has taken for them to get their motor back. As your experience is not his first positive experience. I know sqrl uses him exclusively and has nothing but positive reviews. You can not bag on the guy if it really did take this long. You would be suprized to hear some of the stories from a very valued member on this site. Even you would not say anything when this person responded. I know it is vague but do not kill the guy and his thread. I just broke down a rebuilt never installed motor from east coast and I had receipts and shipping details from that one. It was the worst job I have ever seen. I am also sure that most of their motors had to be done well. Not siding with anyone here but everyone on both sides needs to calm down.

 

[howie099]

I will one day need the engines in my boat rebuilt but how could go back to this? I mean it is just to long. I do see why people go to SBT for engines. You get it in a week or 2 tops maybe not the best engines but I bet the warranty is faster with them. I am not expecting that turn around time but I don't how anyone should wait longer than 90 days for turn around service especially in Winter. All I am saying is just send and E-mail weekly to customers giving an update and tell the correct shipping time it doesn't take 5 weeks. I didn't complain about this until my 2 year mark hit and the 2nd warranty shipping issue is the same run around like the first warranty. I wouldn't of complained if the engine showed up by the first week of April getting warm ship it. I would of paid extra for the return shipping why not I paid $65 to ship it so I am $175 extra in 2 engine replacements with the 2 year warranty deal.

 

[howie099]

All I see here is there is a pattern with the 'shipping' and I am sure it has to do with money. Someone has to pay the blown engine, but 10 months? The season is coming fast and I don't have an engine. All I want is a honest time frame. Like 'hay I can't get this engine back to you until spring'. I would of said fine, wouldn't of been real happy but I wouldn't have to think I lost almost a $1000 on an engine and without the block I am pretty much screwed. Like Ia min right now. You want to know what the wife thinks when I talk about the 'engine' it is very interesting conversation.

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

Okay so I have had my own experiences with SES and have kind of but my tongue just for the benefit of the doubt of SES but it's whatever. I sent Tom an engine in like Feb or March of 2014, got it back after two months even when I had been told 1. So I get it back, it is a 717, it had a bolt drop through the carb and it chooched up the royalty gear and it was 14 years old so I sent it there to SES, figured it wouldn't hurt to just get a total rebuild. I get it back, looks okay, I go and install it. No real surprises, motor seemed to run very good for the first 10 hours or so. Broke it in carefully, etc etc. It always sounded a little funny and had trouble idling but I didn't think too much of it, as the carb was fresh and all the maintenance stuff done. After break in compression never made it past 140, same as when I got it. Take it out by myself, prob 15 hours in, full speed run, motor looses it and I can tell it was a meltdown. I'm pretty pissed at this point, I get towed home, double check all my work after, all looks good, using xps semi synthetic etc etc.

Ship it back because it burnt a piston, same thing, 2 month turnaround, whatever, kinda sucked my riding Season was over but I lived with it. He asked if I had problems idling and stuff, I said yes. He told me that the OIL PUMP FAILED and that i burned the piston up. I was like, no way, Those things are super reliable and I was using good, clean recommended oil. He went on to bash the seadoo oil and tell me how shitty it was, and That I should run 32:1 on this other oil because he has dyno'd many engines and it makes more HP the more oil you have in it. Said he made the most hp at an engine at like 16:1. I'm not kidding, I was blown away. I told him that also I had never seen the engine raise above 140 compression, and he said that was what it came with from the factory. I was like, no, I have had many engines and all seadoo ones come out at 150 perfect compression. He sprouted off some fancy literature about compression ratios and assured me 140 was max and that, IF I HAD AN ENGINE WITH 150 COMPRESSION I WOULD NEED TO RUN RACE GAS. This point I'm just like agreeing, I just want my engine back. So cam back a few weeks later, waiting on gaskets.....of course. Calls me a few weeks later, He said he had done a pressure test and found a crack In my cases, and the piston ran lean because of that. So it wasn't the oil pump he had originally found, it was the fact he apparently didn't pressure check my engine the first time, or he would've found it then, OR it somehow developed when I ran it, but really?!?! It's a 720, it never ran right and I bet the crack was there when I sent it the first time. I would've paid for new cases the first time if there was a crack no problem, but the fact my summer was over now with this ski, I was pretty miffed on this mistake.

He says he would fix it, put a new case on there for me and rebuild it. I think, well at least he is owning his mistake and fixing it right, if he would've told me to pay for new cases, again, I probably would've. So I get the engine back, I HAVE MISMATCHED CASES. The bottom half is my old, original case half, top half is from a 97. I know seadoo 101 says don't use mismatched cases, they are machined and need to match. Anyways, I still think, whatever, I have a warranty, I'm just going to trust the guy and try it anyways. At this point I'm not sending it back AGAIN for this. I get it back, rotary valve cover has never been machined, so who knows if it is in spec. First time I got it back, it was attached and painted, second time, it was just in the box I had to attach that and the PTO.

So I go to install the engine after all that fiasco, get it bolted down and aligned, oil lines ran and primed, etc etc. So next I go to put the carb back on. It is a single carb, nothing fancy. I'm looking around. Something doesn't seem right. "Wait something doesn't seem right, am I putting this carb on wrong? Something is off." I see it in my head but think, oh my god you've gotta be kidding me. No way. I go to the computer, check out the parts fiche, sure enough, I was right. The top half of the case he put on for me has the PULSE NIPPLE ON THE WRONG SIDE!!!! Im mad. after a quick call to a friend, he said it will "probably be okay if I run a pulse line to the other side, so now I have a pulse line that is like 14" long.

I got the motor running, seems to run okay like that, but I mean, it is just stuff like that that makes me upset. I understand he is a small business, probably not crazy high profit margins, but don't give your customers the run around. I have heard the "lost in shipping" excuse so many times from members on here that it should be trending on Twitter. It is a built in excuse and that is the bottom line. Same as waiting for gaskets. I think Tom can and has the ability to build some good motors, and no doubt many people on here have had good experiences with him. But they are also the same people that rave about him and put a good word in for him, so I'm sure people who send him a lot of business he really wants to take care of. Also last time I said even the slightest unhappiness with my work on this forum with him, I literally got a phone call from him the next day asking why I was unhappy. I still have a warranty with SES and at this point, doubt it is any good, but I know like [MENTION=51350]Jetskigoodies[/MENTION] on here, some other ppl have had bad experiences as well. A lot of them are good, but a lot are justifiably bad.

So no, [MENTION=71806]Waterluvr[/MENTION], it's not all BS.

 

[howie099]

I like that the gaskets and shipping excuses are the same thing and are told all the time. A mixed case..at least he could of painted it. I am sure you use the same case for wear reasons, but that is just weird. I can't believe you had a crack and he didn't notice it. I am surprised he didn't weld the case. I have seen that done before. I am sure it faster to swap 1/2 a case. That first engine he sent back might not of even been your case. Who knows, do you really mark the case when you ship it out? I am glad your engine is running and I like the story of your engine. Heck I just want mine back in one piece and I will be happy after all of this mess and time.

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

No. I mean it is all painted the same color. I think he does a decent job painting, it looks like he sandblasts the cases and everything so it all looks like one. He just told me he swapped the case halves and the different year numbers on each half tells me as well.

I am glad to have it running, I just put it in a few weeks ago so haven't had time to test it on the water

 

[howie099]

I am going to call again today and see if someone picks up or calls me back. I hope is runs good for you.

 

[Luv2Camp]

Also last time I said even the slightest unhappiness with my work on this forum with him, I literally got a phone call from him the next day asking why I was unhappy.
So no, [MENTION=71806]Waterluvr[/MENTION], it's not all BS.

The fact that he called you to be sure there were no outstanding issues after you posted means a lot in my book. That is not an action by someone that is hiding or does not want to correct an issue. Let's face it, we are not dealing with robots pumping these things out. There are going to be some issues from time to time. Be it with a rebuild issue or shipping, etc. How a company addresses and recovers is what matters the most to me. All I can go on it my personal experience with SES. I am a first time rebuild engine buyer and only have used SES once. I got my motor back one day short of 4 weeks and felt like he treated me as if I was his only customer. I am not trying to discount other peoples experience with them. I will use him again without hesitation in the future if I have a rebuild need. Looking forward to seeing how this thread turns out!

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

The fact that he called you to be sure there were no outstanding issues after you posted means a lot in my book. That is not an action by someone that is hiding or does not want to correct an issue. Let's face it, we are not dealing with robots pumping these things out. There are going to be some issues from time to time. Be it with a rebuild issue or shipping, etc. How a company addresses and recovers is what matters the most to me. All I can go on it my personal experience with SES. I am a first time rebuild engine buyer and only have used SES once. I got my motor back one day short of 4 weeks and felt like he treated me as if I was his only customer. I am not trying to discount other peoples experience with them. I will use him again without hesitation in the future if I have a rebuild need. Looking forward to seeing how this thread turns out!

Im glad you have had a good experience with him, and you know what, if I knew my motor was going to be done and back to me in 4 weeks i would at least think about using him again ONLY because his prices are so great and i think that is why alot of people use him, but from now on ill probably just rebuild them myself. Hell even with my experience i have recommended to other people to use him just because the price alone. But I think that a part of why you got your motor back so fast was because that you were keeping tabs on it here on the forum, writing reviews as you go. It is obvious he lurks here on the forum, and I would feel safe to say he wanted a good review and yours certainly was. Nothing wrong with that, who wouldnt want a good review. I'm sure the majority of his business comes from people on forums like this who are looking for a rebuilder.

Im just saying that there are alot of people who have seem to have gotten the run around, like the original poster.

 

[howie099]

ok, I called again today @ 10AM Eastern asking where is my engine pretty nicely. I will let you know how days it take him to respond back to me. He rarely ever calls me back in the same day. 10 months is to long. I just looked up my UPS receipt I was a month off. It has been there since August 6th 2014. I have the tracking info to prove it so it has been there 9 months not 10 yet but you never know the month is still young..lol. Can anyone tell me why it takes 9 months to rebuild a 2-stoke engine? I am glad some of you had good results me I would have to say no. I am thinking of call in to work and driving to PA to get my engine. What is is going to tell me when I show up asking for my engine? Can't tell me to excuse now..I looked it up it is 11 hour drive. I would do it in a heart beat. I can tell you get does the work out of his garage. Look up his address on Google maps you see a pretty white house. Someone else look up the picture you see 2 engines sitting in front of the garage in the rubber maid containers. I think one is mine.:thumbsup:

 

[Luv2Camp]

Not sure I would make that drive unless you spoke with him and he said the engine was still there. 22 hour round trip would be horrible with an empty trunk on the way back. I also remember when initially spoke with him that he has a shop offsite. I live in Ohio and was going to drive the engine to him. If I remember correctly, I think they get received at his home and he brings them over to the shop to work on them.