RESTO Project Dog House: 1996 Challenger

[rjcress]

Ran the Challenger for another hour and a half yesterday. It did pretty good, but it is getting troubling that at higher throttle settings the engine bay fills up a bit... like 6-8 inches of water after 10 minutes, but when sitting or idling the engine bay stays pretty dry. I had trouble driving and looking even remotely closely at the engine for leaks last time, so I had my friend look while I drove this time. He couldn't find any leaks either. The water that fills the bilge is pretty hot, so I felt it must be leaking from the engine somewhere... just couldn't find it.
However, I tried one last time after hooking up to the trailer to take the boat home, but with the boat still in the water. Finally found water flowing from aft engine drain hose fitting (circled in pic)

It appeared to be leaking around the fitting itself. I'll see if I can wedge my hand and a wrench down in there to remove the fitting and see why it was leaking.

Other than that, it ran pretty well with me (200lb), my friend (230lb) and our two daughters (probably 130 lb between them), and 2/3 tank of gas.

After a few cycles on the new battery charger, the battery showed almost a volt higher in all modes than it did last time, topping out around 14.0V while cruising. Engaging the starter is easier than it was, but it still doesn't immediately engage every time I push the start button. Sometimes I have to hold the start button for a few seconds before the starter starts spinning. I have a spare starter, but wanted to see how it did with the battery after it had been through a few desulfation cycles on the new charger. I tested the starter solenoid near the end of last season, and it tested fine, but I'll check it again. Also need to verify that all of the engine ground connections are good.

Noticed a new issue though, this time. Both on the trailer at home and once in the water it took a lot of cranking to get it to start. Probably 25-30 seconds. The first few times I started it this year it was nearly instant, while choked, with the throttle at idle. Before I get too worried, I'll check the spark plugs, as the engine had about 6.5 hours on it after the prior trip, including running with extra oil in the pre-mix during break-in, and I haven't looked at the plugs yet this season (I know... I should have).

In other news, I got the new upholstery on the spotter seat this week and ordered all new external decals. For budget reasons, I stuck with single color silver vinyl decals. The new registration numbers arrived today, as well one of the 2 sets of these that I ordered:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221431167916 One of these will go on each side of the engine bay hatch, and one on each side of the trailer frame.

I'll put one of these on the transom, and one diagonally across the little fake windscreen-ish bubble on the hatch forward of the helm:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111374029866 (likely without the dophin)

And one of these on each side of the hull:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111355638047

Got to pick up something to clean the muddy water stains off of the hull sides before the big ones on.

Some pics from the rub rail channel painting and rub rail insert installation...
Note that I am an avid recycler, but consider it a double win if I can reuse something before recycling it. So... the frog tape is new, but all of the plastic and paper used to shield the boat from overspray were recycled. Much of which were old school papers from my kids. This is proof that the math teacher was correct when she said that those math problems would be used again outside of the classroom.

Oh, and notice that I also painted the grab handles. Well, I've since stripped all of the paint off of the handles since it didn't cure. It was still tacky 3 days after painting.
1 Taping off the rub rail channel

2 Tape + plastic

3 damp sponge along the edge to seal the frog tape

4 first section sprayed

5 hmmm. didn't get that section clean enough. had to clean is off and reshoot it later

6 this section came out good on the first pass

7 taping around the curves

8 FINALLY! A good use for math homework

9 I know I am biased, but I think this turned out awesome

10 and around the back corner

12 port side

13 cleaned handles in lacquer thinner, then sprayed with krylon fusion. Was a complete bust.

14 installing the new rub rail insert

15 installing the new rub rail insert

16 insert lined up and ready to be squeezed and poked into the channel

17 Rub rail installed on port side

18 scraping off little bits of paint that seeped under the frog tape

19 painting a handle that wouldn't come off

20 Rub rail channel painted and rubber insert installed :drool5:

 

[rjcress]

Some upholstery upgrade pics. They are a bit out of order, but you guys are smart. You'll figure it out.
On some of the seats Keith said to just put the new cover over the old one. However, some of my old one's were sufficiently destroyed that I couldn't do that. So, had to strip the old cover off, hold the padding in place, and put the new cover on.
Oh, and I shot the reverse bucket with krylon fusion while I was back there. That pic found it's way into this post somehow as well.

 

[rjcress]

Removing the last of the old stickers... the registration... and replacing with new silver vinyl stickers that were $6 shipped from an ebay seller.
Old stickers. I don't hate them, but they are blue and there isn't ANY other blue on the boat. New color scheme is green, silver, and black on the white hull.

I have tried a heat gun, a hair drier, and sunlight to soften stickers to remove them. I've tried a big scraper on both warm and non-warmed stickers. Nothing has come even remotely close to a sharp wood chisel held at a very shallow angle for removing stickers. If held at a sufficiently shallow angle, the chisel does NOT leave any gouge marks.

The chisel leaves a bit of a gooey mess, but a quick scrub with some lacquer thinner cleans it up nicely

I then buffed this section of the hull with an aggressive compound on a wool pad, followed by a polishing compound on a foam pad... followed by a quick wipedown with lacquer thinner to remove any polish that might keep the stickers from adhering properly.

Then removed the backing paper and put the new stickers in place. Took my time, starting at the center of each digit and working out to the top and bottom edges to work out any bubbles. Once smoothed out, removed the transfer paper...

leaving just the new decals

Also, started wiping down the hull sides with acid to get the brown stains out of the gel from being used in lakes. Instead of ordering a marine grade acid wash, I used "The Works" toilet bowl cleaner. It is strong stuff. Got some on my leg and it started burning pretty quickly... and it left burn marks where it dripped on my garage floor.
It is getting the stains out.

I have done the port side and still have to do the starboard side.
Then I can buff the sides, wipe them down, and will be ready to install the new side decals when they arrive.

 

[nickj718]

Looks so much better! I cannot wait to do the black trim to mine. Seat looks great to nice job. I really enjoyed reading this thread and you have helped my project as well. Quick question do you have a second battery for the radio? And how did you wire it? Im looking into doing something on mine.

 

[rjcress]

... do you have a second battery for the radio? And how did you wire it? Im looking into doing something on mine.

I have one battery. Wouldn't want the extra weight of a 2nd one. The single engine challenger is underpowered already.
Best to read back tbrough the radio install section of this thread, as i don't recall how i wired it. I had corrosion in the fuse block forward of the helm that caused a few circuits to be broken. I think the radio power comes off of the accessory lead, but am not positive.
I bypassed the faulty fuse block and run the radio power through a blue sea switch panel that has an inline fuse for each switch. Also running the bilge pump, blower, some lights and a 12v outlet off of that panel.

 

[rjcress]

I need some ideas on how to deal with the cooling water leak. The leak is coming from the 90 degree angle fitting at the bottom of the PTO cylinder. I can't tell if it is cracked, cross threaded, not screwed in far enough, or if the hose attached to it just isn't held tightly enough by the zip tie. I can't fit my hands in from any angle to get to it.
The only way I can see to really get to it is taking off the exhaust pipe, or unbolting ad lifting the engine. Was hoping to avoid either of those.
Ideas anyone?

 

[racerxxx]

Well, the only way to get it it to pull the pipe. Thankfully it's split so you can hopefully just pull the lower half. Pulling the engine, I don't see that as necessary.

Here's what has me looking, look at where the head meets the cylinder in your pic. I can see the cylinder bulging out right above your red circle. That SHOULD be flush with the head like it looks on your front cylinder (kinda cause I can't totally see it).

 

[nickj718]

Iv been in the same situation and their is no other way to fix it you have to remove the exhaust. When I assemble my motors i use a thin coat of toyota gasket sealer but you can use some of the sealer you use on your exhaust. Since you are their I would remove both 90 deg elbows put a little sealer on each ones threads and reinstall. Also replace the t and hoses should be 1/4 hose

 

[racerxxx]

I also do not think it's "alignment" either. Here is my set of cylinders. I have the head bolted on with 2 screws in each cylinder and I cannot get very much "misalignment" out of the clearance of the holes. You are looking at the absolute worst misalignment I can get. It looks like you froze a little bit there and it bulged out. Not saying this is the case, but you really need to investigate this.



Misalignment:

Perfect alignment:

 

[pwgsx]

yepp that's looks like water didn't drain from there and it froze and pushed it out. I would replace that part for sure.

 

[rjcress]

yepp that's looks like water didn't drain from there and it froze and pushed it out. I would replace that part for sure.

Thanks for the feedback and pics, everyone. I had not noticed the bulge.
I am 100% certain it didn't freeze this past winter, as the boat was in the garage, which never got close to cold enough to freeze. It also had a lit 100W light bulb sitting about 6 inches from the bulged area of the engine all winter, with the engine hatch closed... so no chance at all that there is freezing damage that occurred since I had this engine.

This engine was supplied by SES near the end of last summer as a replacement for my original engine, which failed under warranty. I didn't take pics of this engine when I installed it, so I don't have anything to compare against. I would be shocked if Tom sent me an engine that had freeze damage.

Also, I was getting hot water in the bilge right after this engine was installed late last summer, but didn't figure out where it was coming from until this past weekend. So, the lead was there before the winter.

I'll split the pipe after work pull the 90 degree elbows and reinstall with some sealant and the correct hoses.

 

[racerxxx]

Check for cracks around that area with a mirror, there are plenty of pics on the interwebs of long cracks running both vertical and horizontal on those engines. It could be a crack leading to that fitting, but my fingers are crossed that it's just a fitting that needs some teflon tape.

 

[rjcress]

A few pics from the decal work I did over my lunch break (I love working from home)...
I am happy with how these turned out. Still waiting on the 2nd set of these for the trailer.

This one turned out OK. I'll paint the little bump on the hatch in front of the helm and apply another of these stickers diagonally sort of like the original.

It was obvious pretty quickly that the port side decal didn't go on nearly as smoothly as the smaller ones :facepalm:

Trying to pop and smooth the bubbles...

Will have to do better on the starboard side this evening.

Looks decent from 15 feet or so :rofl:

I find that my work looks exponentially better when the picture is blurry.

 

[pwgsx]

How are you putting the decals on? Try spraying both surfaces with water mixed with 2-4 drops of baby shampoo. Place the decal on the boat making sure you have plenty of water so you can move it into position and squeegee from one corner down, this will take out the water and air. When you think it is perfect wait about 10 mins and then remove the backing . You should have a nice smooth decal with no air bubbles.

 

[rjcress]

#!@$%*!!

I know where the leak is coming from. The f#!~@%& elbow is NOT leaking.
There is a horizontal crack along the bottom of the pto cylinder jacket.

#~%*!

 

[rjcress]

The most damning part is what racerxxx noted... the bulge at the top of the cylinder, where bare metal is visible. Tom paints the engine after assembly, so there is no way it could have been bulged like that before. So much for being 100% sure it didn't freeze.
Grrrrrrrr

 

[nickj718]

I know how you feel and it sucks! Over the winter both my jugs got hair line cracks in my gsx. It was due to the fact that I had it in a heated garage but we lost power on a cold day. Their are two options both require removing the cylinder which isn't hard.

Option 1: you can clean the crack and use marine jb weld. I have done it once on a friends. It lasted about 3 years then started leaking again

Option 2: you can have someone bead blast the crack squeeze it together and then they can tig weld it. If done right it will last forever. This is the route I went with and if you need a contact I'll give you the guy I used. He's in michigan took about 5 days and cost 50 bucks plus a gasket kit. Let me know if you need the contact. He's done many many seadoo and other make cylinders. He did a great job. I also put a skim coat of jb marine weld just incase sanded it out and painted it.

Personally I would do anything I can to save that cylinder since it's from a brand new motor. If it can't be saved I would buy two used cylinders send them to full bore and do a full top end. Which would mean break in again.

 

[rjcress]

3rd option is to use the SES "no fault" warranty for a free repair... again.

 

[rjcress]

Just talked to Tom at SeadooEngineShop.com.
He suggested that I try a temporary fix for now, and plan to send the motor back to him in the off season to have it weld and inspected:
-clean with lacquer thinner
-seal with permatex ultra grey
-let cure for 48 hours

He said that I am welcome to send it back to him now, but he is slammed busy and wouldn't be able to get to it right away. He had another customer in a similar situation that asked about sealing the crack, and that the permatex worked for him, so this is worth a try.
Tom also said that he would only consider using Permatex Ultra Grey. If that isn't available, Permatex Ultra Black. He wouldn't recommend any other products... like JB weld.

I think I'll go pick up some permatex ultra at lunch and knock this out. Then it will be cured well when I want to use the boat on Thursday. I'll just use the big boat at the lake this weekend.

And after all I've been through with this boat's motor, Tom continues to be awesome. It looks like I simply screwed up on this and he was nothing but nice to me. More than once he would have been well within reason to suggest that I'm just not smart enough to own one of these boats... and he hasn't...
:stupid:
:agree:

 

[nickj718]

Im sure he knows more than me but I would be worried about the silicone going through the crack to the inside which could possibly come loose and clog something up. Many members have used marine jb weld and have had luck with it. The main problem is that aluminum expands and contracts so no matter what you do it won't hold up for the life of the motor unless you tig it.Cleaning it with lacquer thinner is a must and I would scruff it after that with some sand paper so whatever you use has the best chance to stick.

Just my 2 cents

 

[rjcress]

And the UPS guy arrived with my new garage door opener right as I was heading out to get the permatex... so I ended up installing the opener instead (will make the boss... I mean wife... happy), and ordered the permatex via Amazon. It will arrive Monday and should give me plenty of time to patch the crack and have it cure before putting the boat in the water Friday morning.

 

[Guest_User]

wow, dude that sucks, sorry to hear about your continuous issues with that engine...
permatex isn`t going to hold against water pressure without a back up plate, which is not the way to go. Silicone works well in between parts...

use "waterweld" or JB weld marine, or the like...

time to look for a new boat huh?

 

[rjcress]

...time to look for a new boat huh?

I think that would make the boat happy, as it would mean getting a different owner that might not be such a moron.

 

[Guest_User]

I think that would make the boat happy, as it would mean getting a different owner that might not be such a moron.

sorry dude, but that made me laugh right there!:facepalm::lols:

ok, I`ll go tell my boat your not going to buy it anytime soon...:biggrinjester:

 

[rjcress]

sorry dude, but that made me laugh right there!:facepalm::lols:

ok, I`ll go tell my boat your not going to buy it anytime soon...:biggrinjester:

I knew better....
winterized the big boat
winterized the GTX
but somehow convinced myself that the Challenger would be "safe" in the garage.
:facepalm: