RESTO Project Dog House: 1996 Challenger

[lswaffield]

You rock... thank you!

 

[rjcress]

Sold the GTX this past weekend:thumbsup::seeya::hurray:, so I can finally shift some focus back to the Challenger.

Need to finish the new upholstery install this week and finish spraying the purple rub rail channel with black Krylon so that I can install the new black rub rail.
I've started her in the garage a few times and she fires right up. Fingers crossed that she is dependable this year. Well, good dependable. Last summer I could depend on the Challenger engine to fail every handful of hours.

Also have some Spring maintenance to do on the Mother Ship. Too much to do, not enough time.

 

[rjcress]

You have to prep that rub rail like no ones business.I use lacquer thinner. I actually removed the rub rail from my HX to paint it, your boat I probably wouldn't with your arm. You can twist the rub rail 360 degrees and the paint will not flake off. The other thing you can do is use Frog tape, it has edgeblock technology where once water-based latex touches it the edge seals. So if you put it on, just take a damp sponge and quickly run it down the edge of the tape so it will seal to the fiberglass. Then paint, and remove.

Oh... btw. I got frog tape, but forgot to run the damp sponge over it to seal the edge. So my first 2 little test areas bled under the tape. However, the paint looks awesome on the rub rail channel itself. Really looks like the plastic was black to begin with... instead of that HIDEOUS purple that SeaDoo inflicted on the Challenger.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Lol, you hate that purple like I hate the front of the new seadoo sparks. Why did they do that?! SD usually has good looking stuff....USUALLY but once in a while they just totally goof it up :facepalm:

 

[rjcress]

FINALLY got the Challenger in the water yesterday.
Ran great.
However, ended up putting it on the trailer earlier than I wanted because my youngest was with me and she was freaking out over 2 things:

1) with the engine off there was a bit of water getting into the engine bay. I'm guessing it was just the cabon seal weeping. Maybe 4 cup over 15 minutes. However, after 15 minutes of running at planing speeds we had almost enough hot water in the engine bay to activate the float switch on the bilge pump. IMHO, the bilge pump float switch is mounted too high. I may relocate it to a lower point. The water was hot enough that I assume it is leaking from the exhaust somewhere, but I wasn't able to locate it. I will check all of the exhaust hose connections before heading out next time, and will bring an adult with me to drive while I look around to try to spot the leak.

2) Just as last year, sometimes I have to push the start button several times to get the starter to engage. I hear/feel the starter solenoid engaging every time, but the starter sometimes doesn't spin. My depth finder has a voltage gauge and it drops from about 12.5 to 12 or 11.9 when the start button is pushed. I had charged this batter a few times over the winter with the same charger that I used for my van and the GTX... and those batteries both died very soon afterwards. I think that the charger has pretty much fried this battery as well, since it seems to take a full charge, but won't hold it under load.

I recently read about that you can drain a battery that will take a full charge, but won't hold it under load, and convert it from lead acid to lead alkaline. Might try this.
http://www.smartliketruck.com/2010/12/lead-acid-to-alkaline-conversions/
I don't trust my charger, so need to order a new one first.

Any how, I am pumped that the Challenger ran well and looking forward to finishing it up.
My daughter continued the theme from last year where she would scream at me if I went much over minimum planing speed. Seems she is convinced that the engine is going to blow up at any moment, and going faster is going to make it happen.

 

[Bonmotwang]

My daughter continued the theme from last year where she would scream at me if I went much over minimum planing speed. Seems she is convinced that the engine is going to blow up at any moment, and going faster is going to make it happen.

My sons are the same. Planing speed is the maximum they can take. When the boat starts jump over waves, the older one thinks the boat is going to flip :-D

First time he didn't even allow planing


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[kicker]

Glad things are coming together for you, couple of little kinks and your off to the races.....well done.

In regards to the kids, I had a 5 year old that would do the same, he would get a little freaked out if I went to fast. Until one day I put him between my legs and explained the controls and said he could drive, that way he had control of how fast he wanted to go. After about 3 minutes of him driving he was going faster then he ever let me go..........problem solved. Give it a try, it worked for me.

 

[Bonmotwang]

Good tip. I definitely will try this trick next time. Mines are 3 and 7.


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[rjcress]

In regards to the kids, I had a 5 year old that would do the same, he would get a little freaked out if I went to fast. Until one day I put him between my legs and explained the controls and said he could drive, that way he had control of how fast he wanted to go. After about 3 minutes of him driving he was going faster then he ever let me go..........problem solved. Give it a try, it worked for me.

Yeah... tried having her help me drive and her driving with me in the seat beside her and able to reach all controls. She did ok in the no wake zone and asked to go out past the no wake. As soon as she advanced the throttle a little she wigged out and nearly climbed over me getting out of the driver's seat. :svengo:

 

[racerxxx]

Glad to see your back at it. Get some pics up when you can. I'm so glad my kids never bugged out like that. Our son has been on our boat since he was about 9 months old and our daughter has been on since she was 8 months old. We always said the boat was their cat nip, we would be 10 minutes away from the ramp and they were both out like a light in our laps. That continued for several years, now its just "Go faster" or "Are we out of the no wake zone yet?" Now we're rolling with the two dogs as well, I guess they like it, they haven't said otherwise. Hope that changes for you guys, that could be a drag.

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[IDoSeaDoo]

If your battery goes from 12.5v to 12 or even 11, I wouldn't say it's not holding charge. Not holding charge is when they go below 10v, but climb back up to 12 when load is off. The starter problem sounds like a bad bendix. They're pretty cheap on ebay and not hard to replace. You don't even have to open up the starter body to change, if I remember correctly.

 

[rjcress]

Funny thing is that the same child that spazzed and made me put the boat on the trailer Saturday wanted to go back to the lake Sunday.

I'll get pics up at some point. Don't have time now.

After un-purpling the rub rail and grab handles looking at the pastel decals that remained on the Challenger was painful to me. So, I took measurements of all of them, grabbed my trusty 1" wood chisel, sharpened it, and scraped off almost all of that pastel crap, except for the the registration numbers... have to wait until i have new one's in-hand before I do them. A quick wipe down with mineral spirits to take off the adhesive residue and I was done.
BY FAR, of all the ways I've tried to remove decals on the Challenger (heat & peal, purpose build scraper), the sharp 1" chisel was easiest, fastest, and least damaging to the gel coat. As in, it took maybe 10 minutes to get the big "Sea Doo Challenger" decal off of the port side of the hull, residue and all.
Just have to move the boat a bit so I can get to the starboard side to remove that decal. The boat is too close to the call right now.

I guess I should order some new decals soon. The non-pastel color pallet will be green, grey and black. The bright green is not my first choice. I sort of wish I would have ordered a royal blue and grey upholstery kit. However, I wasn't confident in painting all of the green stuff on the hatch in front of the helm.
I'll probably stay pretty generic. I think a lot of custom jobs look awesome, but custom work can make resale harder.
I am undecided if I will sell this soon, or keep it a while... but I know I won't keep it forever.
That said, I am open to idea

Ok, off to the garage to work on upholstery for 20 min. before work.

 

[rjcress]

If your battery goes from 12.5v to 12 or even 11, I wouldn't say it's not holding charge. Not holding charge is when they go below 10v, but climb back up to 12 when load is off. The starter problem sounds like a bad bendix. They're pretty cheap on ebay and not hard to replace. You don't even have to open up the starter body to change, if I remember correctly.

Hmmm. The bendix is the gear that extends to mesh with the flywheel, right?
Am I correct the symptom would be that I push the starter button and hear the starter spin, but the motor doesn't turn over.

The current symptom is that sometimes when I push the start button I hear the starter solenoid click, but nothing else. No starter motor spinning, no engine spinning.
I'm thinking that means that either:
a) the starter isn't getting enough juice to spin
b) the starter is getting enough juice, but is failing

I spent a few hours on very HOT day last year following the wiring diagram and testing every part of the circuit, and didn't find anything obviously wrong. I wish I would have taken good notes though, as my memory is not 100% on all aspects of what I did and what I found.
I'll take the battery to the parts store tomorrow and have it tested to see if it is the culprit.
If it is not the battery, then I'll work through the starting circuit with the voltmeter and actually TAKE NOTES this time.

Oh, one thing I found last year that I DO remember... if I pushed the start button a second or two before putting the DESS key on the post, then it would start a high % of time on the first try.
If I didn't push the start button right before putting the DESS key on the post, then it was unlikely that the starter would spin at all. I'm thinking that I looked this up afterwards in the Operator Manual and found that it is part of the instructions to push the start button before putting the key on the post.

 

[USAF_Pride]

Hmmm. The bendix is the gear that extends to mesh with the flywheel, right?
Am I correct the symptom would be that I push the starter button and hear the starter spin, but the motor doesn't turn over.

Correct. It may also spin, but the bendix doesn't move out to engage the gears

The current symptom is that sometimes when I push the start button I hear the starter solenoid click, but nothing else. No starter motor spinning, no engine spinning.
I'm thinking that means that either:
a) the starter isn't getting enough juice to spin
b) the starter is getting enough juice, but is failing

I spent a few hours on very HOT day last year following the wiring diagram and testing every part of the circuit, and didn't find anything obviously wrong. I wish I would have taken good notes though, as my memory is not 100% on all aspects of what I did and what I found.
I'll take the battery to the parts store tomorrow and have it tested to see if it is the culprit.
If it is not the battery, then I'll work through the starting circuit with the voltmeter and actually TAKE NOTES this time.

Once you check the battery, take a set of jumper cables and attach the ground post of the battery directly to the starter (to test if you have a good ground). If it doesn't spin, rebuild the starter; if it does, it is a bad ground. If you are real flexible, and use a little black tape on the end of the jumper cable, you can also connect to the positive post on the battery and hit the post where the red wire connects to the starter to see if it spins. (FYI, do this with your MPEM disconnected; battery switch off. If you hit anything grounded, you will get a good shower of sparks)

Once you get the starter out, you can use the same jumper cables to test the starter as well.

 

[racerxxx]

Yep go direct to the starter, if that works it's probably the solenoid.

 

[rjcress]

Haven't had as much time this week as i thought i would. The new computer controlled battery charger arrived before lunch today. I topped up the battery cells with distilled water (took maybe 1 cup total between all 6 cells, then hooked up the charger right away. The manual said it would take 2-6 hours for a marine battery. It read 61% when i hooked it up (should have been at least 90-95%). Now, 12 hours later it 93% and is still charging. I'm hoping it is taking so long because iy is desulfating and because of the new water... and that the battery will be full power again by morning.
I'm really thinking (hoping) the starter is fine and the battery was weak from the defective charger i used on it before.

 

[Guest_User]

time to get rid of that liquid battery and go with an AGM... PM2 FTW!

 

[Bonmotwang]

Just saw one 1996 Challenger sale for parts with trailer for $1200. If I have more space I probably will go negotiate a better price and take on a project too


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[rjcress]

Just saw one 1996 Challenger sale for parts with trailer for $1200. If I have more space I probably will go negotiate a better price and take on a project too


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Seems pretty high for a parts boat. Might be ok if the computer is good, but risky at $1200, IMHO.
I pretty much got mine free, after i sold the paddle boat that i bought with it and have
$3200 in it already.

 

[Bonmotwang]

Seems pretty high for a parts boat. Might be ok if the computer is good, but risky at $1200, IMHO.
I pretty much got mine free, after i sold the paddle boat that i bought with it and have
$3200 in it already.

Thanks. That doesn't make sense knowing how much you have put in.
There are 2004 models around for 5000 to 6000.


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[rjcress]

Thanks. That doesn't make sense knowing how much you have put in.
There are 2004 models around for 5000 to 6000.

Of course, it depends on WHY you were thinking of buying a parts boat. If it has specific parts that you need and you can part-out the rest, then it could be a good investment. You have to have the time to do that and a way to dispose of what is left.
Just saying that using a parts boat as the basis of a rebuild sounds risky to me, unless you REALLY know your stuff and are able to thoroughly assess the boat up front. It could be worthwhile. I read about a guy that bought a speedster for cheap because the engines were shot, just to find out that there was a simple problem, like a clogged fuel filter. Replaced the filter and had a great running boat that cleaned up nicely... and got it for next to nothing.

 

[rjcress]

In case it interests anyone, here is the breakdown of expenses on the Challenger project. I'm sure I've missed a few little things.

Total $3,227.10
Item Cost
boat, trailer, peddle boat $400.00
trailer tires, straps $185.49
Engine rebuild $949.00
sale of peddle boat -$250.00
hatch hinges $19.00
ball valve scupper $13.87
jet pump w/Skat impeller $240.00
impeller boot $8.00
5-way switch panel for helm $34.08
spark plugs $15.00
thread locker $13.26
fuse holder $5.33
buffing pads $21.74
air buffer $27.00
Trailer tail light assembly $14.00
battery tray $16.00
telescoping paddle $21.00
state boat registration - 3 year $60.00
fuses $5.00
carb rebuild kit $104.00
oil filter $11.00
pump hex nut $2.50
fuel filter element $20.00
G2 fuel filter $6.00
stereo & speakers $57.24
stereo cover $17.77
stereo antenna $6.28
depth finder $80.00
cup holder $3.00
blacktip traction mats $198.00
neoprene pump seal $7.00
upholstery kit $340.00
hour meter $14.00
sealants, hose pinchers, threadlockers $71.15
aluminum pump hose fitting $5.00
cyl head temp sensor $15.00
buffing kit $37.00
2x rechargeable battery/jump packs $19.00
locktite purple $7.06
spark plug tester $10.00
compression gauge $40.00
super siphon hose $15.00
4 x 5 gal gas cans $68.00
more spark plugs $26.00
UPS engine pickup charges x5 $62.50
rub rail insert $83.22
bilge blower $30.89
hatch & trailer sea doo stickers $12.35
trailer winch strap $11.44
registration stickers $6.99
side hull, transom & helm hatch stickers $41.94
tygon oil lines billed to GTX project alignment tool billed to GTX project

 

[Bonmotwang]

Nice scare away list. Lol


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[rjcress]

Nice scare away list. Lol

Yeah. And that was a boat that had a good computer and had been running a month or two before I bought it, before the engine locked up. Everything was there, it just hadn't been maintained well and needed a LOT of TLC.

 

[Guest_User]

In case it interests anyone, here is the breakdown of expenses on the Challenger project. I'm sure I've missed a few little things.

Total $3,227.10
Item Cost
boat, trailer, peddle boat $400.00
trailer tires, straps $185.49
Engine rebuild $949.00
sale of peddle boat -$250.00
hatch hinges $19.00
ball valve scupper $13.87
jet pump w/Skat impeller $240.00
impeller boot $8.00
5-way switch panel for helm $34.08
spark plugs $15.00
thread locker $13.26
fuse holder $5.33
buffing pads $21.74
air buffer $27.00
Trailer tail light assembly $14.00
battery tray $16.00
telescoping paddle $21.00
state boat registration - 3 year $60.00
fuses $5.00
carb rebuild kit $104.00
oil filter $11.00
pump hex nut $2.50
fuel filter element $20.00
G2 fuel filter $6.00
stereo & speakers $57.24
stereo cover $17.77
stereo antenna $6.28
depth finder $80.00
cup holder $3.00
blacktip traction mats $198.00
neoprene pump seal $7.00
upholstery kit $340.00
hour meter $14.00
sealants, hose pinchers, threadlockers $71.15
aluminum pump hose fitting $5.00
cyl head temp sensor $15.00
buffing kit $37.00
2x rechargeable battery/jump packs $19.00
locktite purple $7.06
spark plug tester $10.00
compression gauge $40.00
super siphon hose $15.00
4 x 5 gal gas cans $68.00
more spark plugs $26.00
UPS engine pickup charges x5 $62.50
rub rail insert $83.22
bilge blower $30.89
hatch & trailer sea doo stickers $12.35
trailer winch strap $11.44
registration stickers $6.99
side hull, transom & helm hatch stickers $41.94
tygon oil lines billed to GTX project alignment tool billed to GTX project

dayum I have that beat by a longshot! and ours ran to! but the importance was placed on aero303 on the seats and not the running condition of the boat...

guess that`s why I`m married to it now for decades...:facepalm: