DI Seadoo Fuel Pump

[DooWacka]

The Lifetime warranty is stated on their site and in this eBay listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Intank-..._Watercraft_Parts&hash=item2a21a41bd6&vxp=mtr

Look at all the "Product Features" but especially item 2:
"2. Lifetime Warranty. We back every single pump with a Lifetime Warranty."

They didn't originally have this warranty, but have apparently decided to go with it.
Also, they know about corrosion issues in the OE pump, and state their pump doesn't have this problem.

 

[Piper Mike]

I see what you are saying, but nobody has had long term success with these yet. Lifetime warranty is no use unless it actually works. Now they are promising lower amperage versions but we are guinea pigs right now because taking apart the fuel pump assembly isn't exactly a 10 min job.

 

[DooWacka]

Starting a few years ago people were putting the HFP-342 pump in the DI's, and "Bills86e" sold a lot of kits for doing it. I have asked on this forum for feedback from these folks with no results. I would agree with Bill's assessment that if you aren't hearing anything then they must be working. I did exchange emails with a member in Australia that Bill told me about, and he says his rebuild has been working great for some time.

A guy at HighFlowFuel said they have sold a couple of hundred of these pumps with no complaints from people. So again, maybe no news is good news.

I have replaced four pumps now in my four 2001 GTX DI units. If you know what you are doing and have all the parts, it can be done in a couple of hours. I am putting together a document with pics of the best method I have found with all my experimentation.

I think the worry a lot of us have is not just the $150 vs $700+ for the pump versus the OEM fuel pump module, but that Bombardier is just using up their inventory of modules so they will have the same problems as the original pump.

 

[Angler]

The OEM fuel pumps have concealed power wires, how can the HFP-342 have exposed power wires in the gas? Won't they short out? Am I missing something? I am installing this today. Any help would be much appreciated,.

Thanks.
http://www.seadooforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15685&d=1350767488

 

[DooWacka]

Not to worry, exposed power connectors are common on submersible fuel pumps.
The fuel is virtually non-conductive, so as long as the connectors are firmly connected there is no problem.

However, just using the short black hose to connect between the pump and aluminum seal carrier has caused me problems. The thin and therefore "wimpy" white plastic pump support was not strong enough when combined with a flexible black hose. So when riding hard on waves etc., the force caused the black hose to bend and "fold" enough such that the sliding seal tilted and failed. Therefore the 107 psi pressure was not maintained and the DI stalled out.

I found that adding a "stiffener" to the black hose gave a solution. The best stiffener I found was splitting (lengthwise) a short 1/2" copper water pipe and clamping those halves over the hose. So, one pair of clamps over both the copper and fuel hose.

The picture also looks like you are using the previous pump (HFP-342) sent by High Flow Fuel which draws 12 amps versus their newer pump (HFP-RTN) which draws only 9 amps. This is important since the magneto has limited output and has more trouble keeping the battery charged given the higher power requirements of the 342 pump.

Also, your picture looks like you have no connector between the hose and the threaded aluminum seal carrier. Placing the hose right over the threads. I have wondered if this would work, but have never tried it. I would think that it is possible with the right sealant and a tight clamp. So, if that is what you are trying, I will be interested in your feedback if it works both short and long term.

 

[Angler]

The picture also looks like you are using the previous pump (HFP-342) sent by High Flow Fuel which draws 12 amps versus their newer pump (HFP-RTN) which draws only 9 amps. This is important since the magneto has limited output and has more trouble keeping the battery charged given the higher power requirements of the 342 pump.

DooWacka, thanks for the comments! The Sea Doo starts right up, I 'll have it on the River Saturday to see if it actually runs.
Is there a part number on the newer pump?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[DooWacka]

I think the part number is HFP-RTN (for returnless), but I understand all the orders for Seadoo DI pumps since a few months ago are now sent this pump. So if you ordered it more than a few months ago, you would get the HFP-342 pump shown in your picture. I also have one of the HFP-342 pumps installed and it runs great, it just doesn't charge the battery at idle. I just tell people that ride it to not idle to long unless they run at higher speeds between idling periods. I have recently installed the newer RTN pump on a couple of my other DIs, so I am hoping for the same performance, with the added relief of charging even at idle.

Hope it runs great for you for a long time. If not, I understand that both these pumps have a lifetime warranty.

 

[Angler]

DooWacka,

The Doo ran great. Ran it hard for 7 miles going up river, doing 50-54mph most of the way. Never stalled or needed more fuel.
It's put away for the Winter, we'll see how it holds up next spring.

Thanks again.

 

[SteveE]

Hi Guys,
Just to weigh in on the situation, I have just installed one of these pumps (2001 DI, brand new engine), and had no real joy. I cant say for sure that the pump is no good, but upon instalation the ski fired up and idled, after winding over for approximately 2 seconds. This seemed to be how it would operate, as each subsequent start would also take a couple of seconds of turning over before firing, but it would start.
Upon taking it down to the water, it started and ran. I couldnt get it to run at anywhere over 5000rpm, approximately 38mph.
It started stalling quite regularly soon thereafter, and I limped it to a nearby shoreline. Nothing looked out of place, so I thought I would just take it back to the boat ramp. That was the last time I had it running, as it wouldn't start again, and I had to tow it back to the ramp.
It has not started again, although I can hear the pump priming when the key turns on. I took the pulgs out, put a dribble of fuel in the cylinders, and away it went, albeit for about five seconds.
So now Ive got a new pump, brand new engine (2 hours use), and no idea where to go from here. I am going to try to book it in with the local dealer, who have quoted me $1500 for a new fuel pump, to see if they can shed light in what the problem is. I suspect it will be the pump, being that it wouldnt rev beyond 5000rpm when going.
The other thought I had is that it could possibly be an injector problem, but I would value any advice that might put me in the right track.

Cheers

 

[ski-d00]

All you need to do is test your fuel pressure, that will tell you everything. Any decent automotive shop can do this in 5 minutes, you don't need a seadoo shop. I wouldn't pay $1500 for a fuel pump.

 

[SteveE]

I am thinking of taking it to an automotive place actually, just looking for a reputable place now.
As for the pump, Seadoo in Australia quotes that price. I found a place on the net (near California I think) that would do it for $650 US, but they wanted another $350 to send it via UPS, and they wouldnt deal with any other courier. I know its still considerably cheaper, but even $1000 for a pump is ridiculous in my opion. If it gets the ski going, then I guess I'm going to have to fork it out, but I can tell you that I wont be impressed. I cant believe that it costs $350 to post something so small to Australia.
It certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth, being that this is the first ski I have ever owned, and after just spending $3500 on a new motor, it's still sitting in the shed collecting dust.

 

[ski-d00]

I've shipped a lot of stuff to AU, it costs more but not that much. I can probably set up you up with a used fuel pump in good working order for much cheaper than that and probably a new one cheaper as well. Check your fuel pressure first, needs to be 107 psi while running.

 

[DooWacka]

I agree that you need to test the fuel pressure, since it will tell what you need to know.
Priming the rail is a much lower pressure than running.
I have yet to hear of one of these pumps being DOA, so I would assume it was the install.
So, if it is the pump module, and not some other problem (pressure test), then I would look at your fuel connections and support of the pump. I say "support", since the pump can "fall over" causing the sliding seal to fail. If you don't test the pressure needed (107 psi) then look at your module rebuild. If the pressure is fine, then look elsewhere.

 

[SteveE]

Ski-doo I would be very interested to hear your prices, not sure how you'd like to do that though, so please advise.

DooWacka, the pump wasnt DOA, quite the opposite, and I followed your instructions and braced the flexible line with a peice of copper pipe slit donw one side then wrapped arounnd it. I reefed on it pretty hard and couldnt see how it was going to lay over like you explained happened earlier to you. I also had access to two of the off white plastic supports, not sure what you'd call them, the ones oth the hole offset, and a semi-circle cut into one end, so anyway I used two of those to keep the pump upright and sturdy. When I had dramas, I was on some very flat water, just running in a straigt line, as I was being ultra cautious beign that it was the first time back in the water after trying to rememdy the problem.
Any ideas why my pump would have taken a few seconds of turning over to start on the first half a dozen goes, but then seemed to sort itself out afterwards?
It was at the point where it would start, then stall if I didnt keep the revs up to it, and then finally after pulling into the shore for a closer inspection is when she gave up on me completely.

 

[justy_123]

Hey guys. Sorry for hijacking this thread. But I need some assistance.

After confirming that my 'bogging' issues were due to a lack of fuel pressure, I ordered myself a fuel pump from HIGH FLOW. P/N HFP-DI42 from e-bay.

Spent today installing the pump into the existing fuel module and then fitted the module into my fuel tank. Upon installing my lanyard on the jet ski, the pump runs to prime the fuel rail for 2 seconds which is normal. However, when the fuel pump stops running after these 2 seconds fuel pressure bleeds off rapidly. This is not normal.

Engine runs but only putting out 100 psi needs to be 107 psi.

I removed the fuel module from the fuel tank and had a closer look at the fuel pump. Found a small 1/16th drill hole on the bottom of the pump. When I blow through the outlet of the pump, air is coming out of this small hole. I am guessing that this is where the fuel pressure is bleeding off. Is this hole meant to be there? The OEM pump hasn't got this hole and I also believe there is a check valve inbuilt. I don't think this high flow pump has a check valve. Should it?

Read a few posts on this forum about people installing this pump with no issues. Am I missing something?

I am stumped for ideas, are there instructions for installing this pump? Also are you able to tell me if this small hole has a purpose or not. I have included pictures.

Many Thanks

Justin from Australia

 

[DooWacka]

SteveE - I split the copper pipe on both sides resulting in two half shells. These are much easier to compress on the hose than a split down one side, since the pipe is pretty sturdy.
My installs took a few seconds to start the very first time, then immediate or only a second to start thereafter.
The way you are describing operation sure sounds like low pressure.
You need to measure pressure, preferably while underway on the water. You can make a test rig similar to the one shown in the manual fairly cheaply.

 

[DooWacka]

Justin -
I believe there is no check valve on these pumps since I have also seen the pressure bleed off at least some. From what I understand from communications with High Flow, this is a "Returnless" pump that can be used both in a return system like Seadoos, or a returnless design like a Mustang. To work in a returnless system it would not have a check valve, or the bypass valve would have to function all the time to avoid over pressurization. The hole in the pump bottom is for bypass. I'm not sure what it means when you can blow backwards through the outlet and get flow out that hole (pump off of course). That may not be any problem. The real test is what comes out the hole when running. According to High Flow, they tested the pump up to 110 psi without any flow out the bypass, so they don't know how high the bypass pressure is set.

Since you are apparently measuring the pressure when you said it is only at 100 psi, maybe you could try a test.
The pump may not be getting to 107 psi, due to a faulty pump or installation problems. OR, the fuel pressure regulator in the fuel rail is bad.
If you use a clamp on the return fuel line from the rail, and the pressure goes up to 107psi or better, then your pump may be fine but maybe your regulator is weak.

 

[justy_123]

Thanks DooWacka.

Put the module back in today. Ran the engine on the hose for a little got 102 psi. Yeh I thought about clamping the return line. I have the return line disconnected from the tank and when the engine runs, even at idle, little even no fuel is returning back to the tank. If the fuel pressure reg was bad wouldn't quite a bit of fuel return back to the tank?

My installation looks ok. But is all hidden once its all back inside the tank. So is hard to look for leaks when running.

How unlucky would I to have a faulty pump? I have emailed high flow. See what they say

To make things worse, there now is a grinding noise coming from the rear of the ski when i have the throttle 1/2 open. Suspect jet pump I hope. No good.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

could be part of the rev issue if its dragging bad...just throwing it out there.

 

[DooWacka]

I agree that if the rail fuel pressure regulator was bad, I would expect it would allow to much fuel to return to the tank.
It does sound like it could be the pump, which is rare given what I have heard.

For testing I have rigged up the pump in a test setup outside the Seadoo. To be safe you have to be out in the open with a breeze, and no sparks. I have a valve on my pressure tester so I can restrict the flow and put a load on the pump to get it up to 107 psi (or higher, 110psi), then I watch if there are fitting or bypass leaks. I put the module in a small bucket with maybe an inch of fuel, and made the return fuel go into the bucket, so it doesn't come through the normal return and just flow over everything you are watching.

 

[justy_123]

Tested the fuel pump out of the sea doo today in a bucket of fuel just like you mentioned doowaka. Took my fuel pump setup out of the fuel module and hooked up 12volts. With the line pinched after the pressure gauge, the fuel pump only puts out 100 psi. At this point fuel comes out of the top of the fuel pump underneath the outlet. I believe this would be the inbuilt pressure relief valve? No leaks from my 'home made' setup! Its as tho the fuel pump pressure relief is set too low?

 

[DooWacka]

Although the "bypass" or high pressure relief valve is on the top of most pumps, I thought High Flow told me the small hole on the bottom of this pump is the bypass. The two metal "nubs" on the pump top I believe are electrical. If I remember right there is continuity between the nubs and each electrical terminal. Verify the relief valve location with High Flow.

If there is not a relief port on top then it probably means the connection point between the outlet and your hose is spewing. I know when the fuel squirts out, it is hard to tell exactly where it is coming from. Remember this is pretty high pressure, so it can come out connections you wouldn't think possible.

I use Oetiker clamps on the connections since they provide even pressure all the way around, with no "flat spot" where the worm gear of the hose clamp is.

 

[SteveE]

Thanks Doowacka. I am getting the fuel and air injectors tested and cleaned/flowed tomorrow just to be sure its not them, and I will take a look for that test rig. I'm assuming that would be the tab up the top of this page you're talking about?
I actually put two clamps around the hose seperately, then put the copper pipe on, then added another two clamps to stiffen the whold assembly up. It doesnt look anywhere near as pretty as your example, but I think it should have held up to the presssure ok.

 

[SteveE]

Doowacka/anyone,
Do I need to pay to download this manual? I dont suppose anyone would have a picture/instructions of this test rig for fuel pressure testing?

 

[justy_123]

You a smart man wacka. Yep looking real close fuel is indeed spewing at high pressure out of the outlet hose connection! First glance it looks for sure it is coming from the top of the pump! Leaks when the pressure of the pump reaches 100psi! So this is where my missing psi's are going.
I even used two worm drive clamps on that connection. Am going to use your installation as a guide and use the double ear crimp clamps which I should have used from the very start!
See how it goes.