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TCW-3 in my 96 speedster!

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lamb724

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I just bought a 96 speedster last week,and started going through checking everything out and getting info on the boat. I soon came to realize the previous owner used quicksilver tcw-3 oil. The jug was still 3/4 full,But im not sure if it was used previous to that. I took a chance and charged the bats,Fired both engines. They purred like kittens but smoked like hell. Well i drained the oil tank,and going to find some api-tc but i need to know if i need to drain the case,and is there an easier way then pulling the motors? Also is it possible the profuse smoking is the crank seals gone bad from wrong oil?
It was sitting for a good while filled with oil before i bought it tho..
THNX 4 UR HELP :)
 
Normally, on a jetski, I say no. But the hoses are very long, and since you have 2 engines... I would drain it.

It's not that hard... it's just going to have a little clean-up after you are done.

Take the hose off the low fitting on the crankcase on each of the engines... and let the oil flow out. Leave them open for a while so it can just drip for a while. Also, take the hose off of each of the oil injection pumps, and let that hose drain. AND... since you are going to all that trouble... you may as well change the small in-line oil filters to make sure the system stays healthy.


Once you hook up the hoses again... re-fill the system, and bleed the oil lines going to the injection pumps. Any remaining oil shouldn't cause you a problem.



One last thought... since you are going to have oil on your hands... and since you obviously want to use the injection system... I would check the 2 small oil hoses that go between the pumps to the intake manifolds. These hoses cause the bulk of the oil injection failures. Make sure they aren't stiff, leaking, or overly soft. If you see any sign that they aren't happy, change them. (and while you have them off, make sure the nipple in the manifold are clear)


I know it sounds like a lot... but it should only take an hour, and after you are done, you will have piece of mind, that the system is working.


If you need help with the bleading... just make a post, and we will walk you though it. :cheers:
 
You don't have rave valves in the speedster motors so you can use the tcw-3, I do on all my skis/speedsters...
 
UGH so many conflicting answers.

Since I have no Raves to worry about could I use the TCW-3 despite saying how the API-TC is better for the rotax high rev/heat conditions???

I know it's probably been covered but since I premix could I start premixing the TC oil if I have some of the TCW-3 in the gas now?? What about the resovior tank feeding the RV do I have to drain it to(unsure what's in there other than its blue)
 
mystic oil at acadamy sports and out doors is the api-tc type and it is only 19.99. that is only 10 bucks more than there cheapest w3....and that is for 1 gallon size.....so for 10 bucks more and peace of mind in my speedster i would buy the mystic. probably the cheapest api-tc you will find. its purple and comes in full synthetic.
 
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mystic oil at acadamy sports and out doors is the api-tc type and it is only 19.99. that is only 10 bucks more than there cheapest w3....and that is for 1 gallon size.....so for 10 bucks more and peace of mind in my speedster i would buy the mystic. probably the cheapest api-tc you will find. its purple and comes in full synthetic.

Thanks Hank :)
How's your dad doing? scared to go back??
 
he makes comments about it, which upsets me, but i keep it in. i have decided he isn't allow back for awhile because of the way he is acting. and i think i am going to have a form for people to sign that get in with me......you know release form. LOL!

and you're welcome ;0)
 
Premixing..Ick... :)

Just use the recommended oil, it'll give you peace of mind!

Drain the RV cavity and use the new oil, shouldn't take long, just messy...
 
he makes comments about it, which upsets me, but i keep it in. i have decided he isn't allow back for awhile because of the way he is acting. and i think i am going to have a form for people to sign that get in with me......you know release form. LOL!

and you're welcome ;0)

ROFL
sign here for the ejection seat position. I'm sure he's just bustin balls like all DADs do....
 
Albeit I used TCW3 oil in my 93GTX's for four years after a complete engine rebuilt, last summer when my crankshaft seized I was told by the person that I purchased a rebuilt CS from that my bearings had signs of overheating.

In his opinion, the overheating was likely, but not positively caused by using the wrong oil.

If you give a darn about the issue of oil, pull up the Threads I posted on the subject of the Oil colloquy. From there you will find other responses from real mechanics, unlike this Shade Tree mechanic.
 
Albeit I used TCW3 oil in my 93GTX's for four years after a complete engine rebuilt, last summer when my crankshaft seized I was told by the person that I purchased a rebuilt CS from that my bearings had signs of overheating.

In his opinion, the overheating was likely, but not positively caused by using the wrong oil.

If you give a darn about the issue of oil, pull up the Threads I posted on the subject of the Oil colloquy. From there you will find other responses from real mechanics, unlike this Shade Tree mechanic.

I remember reading old thread about oil. Esp seeing your avatar :hurray:
All points to the TC in the end.
It will pay to buy gallons or cases depending on $$.
Thanks
 
Albeit I used TCW3 oil in my 93GTX's for four years after a complete engine rebuilt, last summer when my crankshaft seized I was told by the person that I purchased a rebuilt CS from that my bearings had signs of overheating.

In his opinion, the overheating was likely, but not positively caused by using the wrong oil.

If you give a darn about the issue of oil, pull up the Threads I posted on the subject of the Oil colloquy. From there you will find other responses from real mechanics, unlike this Shade Tree mechanic.


LOL!....:willy_nilly:
 
from wrong oil to bad head!

Well ,I've gotten the oil changed out of the cases shot the carbs with cleaner,checked fliters etc. Since i have no local dealers i got some Quicksilver premium which is tcw-3 certified but also rated for api-tc,also found another problem port aft spark plug hole has damaged threads,new heads gonna set me back $230.Still hand tightened and took to river to fire engines and get them warm. Good news is less smoking and plug didnt fly out!! I LOVE PROGRESS
 
$230??!... Check the wanted/for sale section of pwctoday ebay, probably like $50... :) Any 720 seadoo engine will work..
 
BAD NEWS LAMBO:

Albeit I am only a Shade Tree mechanic, I have read a plethora (a lot) of information regarding the type of oil that should go into a Rotax engine. (Sea Doo)

Moreover, I have more than a minimal amount of knowledge about Quicksilver oils.

In fact, last month at this time I was in the EXACT position you are in now: after reading a Thread posted by a knowledgeable member I finally was persuaded to toss out my Valvoline TCW3 oil and go Quicksilver. (QS)

Like you, I found a gray jug of PREMIUM QS oil and in my case at a local marine shop selling for about $28 bucks.

I purchased it because it was not only rated TCW3, but also API TC, the stuff our Doo's purportedly require.

I figured, bigger bang for the buck, both TCW3 and API TC!

HOWEVER, when I brought the jug home and before I put it into my Doo, like everything I do, I double check so I took a few minutes to again read the description of the oil on the label.

Oh, oh, I found out the reason it was rated TCW3: the oil is ASH LESS, and the Doo's purportedly need a LOW ASH oil because of the Rotary Valve and high speed of the engine. (ash is a detergent that is applied to the oil)

According to your SD Operators Guide and several opinions from knowledgeable mechanics set forth in this Forum, what you now have in your garage, and hopefully not in your Doo is the WRONG type of oil.

If it is your desire to use the oil that is recommended in your SD Operators Guide and want to use the QS brand, you need Quicksilver PWC, either a blend (mineral 80%+-/synthetic 20%+-)(grey bottle) or full 100% synthetic (black bottle)

If you have an older Doo (96 and under) the Blend will work best because older engines need the mineral.

The front of the oil container will have a large red/pinkish banner identifying it as PWC 2-stroke oil. See attachment for photo.

If you want further info on the debate of oils, i.e., API TC and TCW3, send me a personal note and I will direct you to a place to find another opinion from a trusted mechanic regarding oil.
 

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Well ,I've gotten the oil changed out of the cases shot the carbs with cleaner,checked fliters etc. Since i have no local dealers i got some Quicksilver premium which is tcw-3 certified but also rated for api-tc,also found another problem port aft spark plug hole has damaged threads,new heads gonna set me back $230.Still hand tightened and took to river to fire engines and get them warm. Good news is less smoking and plug didnt fly out!! I LOVE PROGRESS

Do not use this oil either. Quicksilver premium is just as bad as any other TCw3. Iti s an outboard ashless oil. You need LOW ASH. you might as well do it all over again.
 
The "Parrot" is on the ball! Another wise shopper!

FYI, another source is CraigsList.Org

My choke was defective, so, in a rush yesterday I jumped over to E-bay and found several chokes for sale at about $35 plus $7 for shipping.

Then, I thought, why not check Craigs list; that way, if I found one I would have it now and not have to wait several days for Mr. Postman to deliver it.

I found a dozen for around $15, all within a fifteen minute drive.

In fact, the guy I purchased it from was another lawyer who like me, did not trust the local SD dealer because a friend of his was told by the local dealer that his crankshaft had to be replaced.

Low and behold, albeit the friend was charged $1500 to remove/replace the CS, upon inspection by the lawyer, not a bolt was touched to perform the task. In other words, the CS was not replaced, however, the friend nonetheless was charged.

In my case, I found a new friend and someone that I can commiserate with when I have a problem with one of my Doo's.

In a nutshell, see if you can find what you are looking for on Craigslist. Look for guys parting out engines or selling parts. If not, as Parrot suggested, jump on E-bay. Stay away from SD dealers and if you're going to purchase API TC oil, get it from anywhere but Sea Doo.
 
RebFoster:

I think I gave the Lamb the right info to get rid of the QS Premium and get Quicksilver PWC, a low ash API TC oil, so both our posts so close together may be confusing to a NewB. Read my post and if you agree, let the Lamb know.

I am only a Shade Tree mechanic, so, hopefully I did not pass out the wrong info. I read the label and the Snipe recommends it also, so I don't think I did, but, since this old dog learns something new every day, hmmmm........
 
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Well ,I've gotten the oil changed out of the cases shot the carbs with cleaner,checked fliters etc. Since i have no local dealers i got some Quicksilver premium which is tcw-3 certified but also rated for api-tc,also found another problem port aft spark plug hole has damaged threads,new heads gonna set me back $230.Still hand tightened and took to river to fire engines and get them warm. Good news is less smoking and plug didnt fly out!! I LOVE PROGRESS

As said above... don't use it.
 
Well ,I've gotten the oil changed out of the cases shot the carbs with cleaner,checked fliters etc. Since i have no local dealers i got some Quicksilver premium which is tcw-3 certified but also rated for api-tc, :stupid:
also found another problem port aft spark plug hole has damaged threads,new heads gonna set me back $230.Still hand tightened and took to river to fire engines and get them warm. Good news is less smoking and plug didnt fly out!! I LOVE PROGRESS


As said above... don't use it.

Do not use this oil either. Quicksilver premium is just as bad as any other TCw3. Iti s an outboard ashless oil. You need LOW ASH. you might as well do it all over again.


They are telling you something :bigear:
They know what they are saying to be true.....
 
RebFoster:

I think I gave the Lamb the right info to get rid of the QS Premium and get Quicksilver PWC, a low ash API TC oil, so both our posts so close together may be confusing to a NewB. Read my post and if you agree, let the Lamb know.

I am only a Shade Tree mechanic, so, hopefully I did not pass out the wrong info. I read the label and the Snipe recommends it also, so I don't think I did, but, since this old dog learns something new every day, hmmmm........

Your post was very accurate. I'm confused why you think our opinions differ though. We basically said the same thing. Ashless is bad. Low ash Quicksilver pwc is fine. In fact it is what I use.
 
Quicksilver PWC 2-Stroke Oil

Here is the bottom line on Quicksilver PWC 2-Stroke Oil, manufactured by Mercury Marine.

If you take a minute to read the entire label that is posted on a container of QS PWC 2-Stroke oil you will see that albeit it is rated API TC,the label does not provide a scintilla of information pertaining to whether it is a Low Ash, High Ash or Ash-less oil, or whether or not it can be used in oil injection engines.

On that note, and in consideration that there are a myriad of posts on this Forum regarding Quicksilver oil, this morning I contacted Mercury Marine's corporate headquarters located in Stillwater, OK to solicit information regarding QS PWC 2-Stroke oil.

The representative informed me that to the best of his knowledge, based on what he recalled from a previous conversation that he had at a meeting that occurred about two years ago regarding oils that Mercury Marine (MM) sells, was that Mercury Marine has only sold engine oils that are Ashless because no Mercury engine used a Low Ash or High Ash oil.

When I challenged him about his position he transferred me to the engineering department wherein I was informed by an engineer that QS PWC two-stoke oil is in fact a Low Ash oil and can be used in oil injection engines as well as pre-mix engines.

The engineer did not have a document that I could read confirming his position, however, he assured me that several years ago, the exact date and time unknown, in an attempt to help MM dealerships that sell other brands, MM decided to order a Low Ash oil from the oil manufacture it used.

The engineer declined to inform me what oil company manufactures the oil that bears the MM,Quicksilver label.

Based upon that conversation, the bottom line is that the only Quicksilver oil that can be used in a Sea Doo, if it is the intent of the owner to follow the guidance set forth in all SD Operators manuals, is Quicksilver PWC 2-Stroke oil, be it in the silver container which is a blend of mineral (mineral 80%+-/synthetic 20%+-) or full synthetic (black container)

On a side note, and to help those that followed my footsteps and purchased QS Premium because it is rated API TC, (and TCW3), (two-cycle/water/3rd generation), QS Premium is Ashless as is Premium Plus, (a TCW3 oil).

According to all SD's Operators Guides I've read (I have not read the 1990 Guide) SD's require a Low Ash oil, which is an ingredient added to the oil for lubrication.

DISCLAIMER: Although I am a former criminal investigator with the feds, teacher and law school grad, nonetheless, I am a mere Shade Tree mechanic, so, keep all those facts in mind when you read my post to a Thread. I tend to offer facts, however, some are based on others opinions
or in this case cannot be fully documented.

All I am endeavoring to do is lay out some information based upon my experience. On that note, tread wisely grasshopper.
 
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