Good research. Thanks for adding all that. I think most of the regulars here know and understand the issue. But it seems to be a constant struggle teaching new people.
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TCW-3 in my 96 speedster!
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cli55er
New Member
yeah, i added more grab handles over the weekend. and i think i will put that on the form LOL!!! good one.
and yeah he needs to stop bustin them before i kick his hard. LOL!
oh and the Mystik JT-4 oil i was telling you about is also low ash. so it is good to go. 19.99 a gallon full synthetic and it is local at Academy sports.
Hank
and yeah he needs to stop bustin them before i kick his hard. LOL!
oh and the Mystik JT-4 oil i was telling you about is also low ash. so it is good to go. 19.99 a gallon full synthetic and it is local at Academy sports.
Hank
SurfBeat
Active Member
I've noticed several members write about using QS Premium because it is an API TC oil, however, it is clear that they don't carefully read the label because if they did they would see that states the oil is Ash less.
I cannot be critical of them because I also purchased the QS Premium a few months ago after reading the label that it was an API TC rated oil. However, when I arrived home and read the label carefully again, I noticed my mistake.
At that time, I didn't fully realize the significance Ash is for a Rotax engine.
I found it odd that the QS PWC label does not identify it as a Low Ash oil, thus my reason for conducting a more in depth inquiry.
Moving on, I just realized that I had failed to make another important point about oil that others may find useful.
I bought two 93 GTX's in 1993 and used SD brand oil exclusively until 2005 when one of my engines went bad. (a friend trashed it)
Anyway, because I was ticked off at the dealer, I decided to change oils on the rebuilt from the SD brand to Valvoline TCW3.
Last year, on the last day of summer my rebuilt froze and when the crankshaft was pulled, the shop where I purchased a replacement told me that my CS bearings had signs of overheating, and in his opinion, it was likely caused by the oil I was using.
Well, the 2nd Doo, 17 years old, used 7 days a month from April to October since 1993 is still running like new, problem free. (knock on my head/wood)
Maybe that fact is a strong reason to continue using SD brand oil, however, I get irritated when I need to purchase something from SD and it is three-four times higher in price than other places, so I am going to give the QS a try.
I was hoping that Mercury Marine would provide me with a product sheet on its oil so I could compare it with the SD oil, but they won't. QS also would not inform me who manufactures its oil! What a way to run a business.
The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) does not provide any useful info.
It's time to get my butt outside and replace my choke cable so hopefully I can get get my Doo running again before Christmas.
I cannot be critical of them because I also purchased the QS Premium a few months ago after reading the label that it was an API TC rated oil. However, when I arrived home and read the label carefully again, I noticed my mistake.
At that time, I didn't fully realize the significance Ash is for a Rotax engine.
I found it odd that the QS PWC label does not identify it as a Low Ash oil, thus my reason for conducting a more in depth inquiry.
Moving on, I just realized that I had failed to make another important point about oil that others may find useful.
I bought two 93 GTX's in 1993 and used SD brand oil exclusively until 2005 when one of my engines went bad. (a friend trashed it)
Anyway, because I was ticked off at the dealer, I decided to change oils on the rebuilt from the SD brand to Valvoline TCW3.
Last year, on the last day of summer my rebuilt froze and when the crankshaft was pulled, the shop where I purchased a replacement told me that my CS bearings had signs of overheating, and in his opinion, it was likely caused by the oil I was using.
Well, the 2nd Doo, 17 years old, used 7 days a month from April to October since 1993 is still running like new, problem free. (knock on my head/wood)
Maybe that fact is a strong reason to continue using SD brand oil, however, I get irritated when I need to purchase something from SD and it is three-four times higher in price than other places, so I am going to give the QS a try.
I was hoping that Mercury Marine would provide me with a product sheet on its oil so I could compare it with the SD oil, but they won't. QS also would not inform me who manufactures its oil! What a way to run a business.
The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) does not provide any useful info.
It's time to get my butt outside and replace my choke cable so hopefully I can get get my Doo running again before Christmas.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Because they are cheap.
With regular automotive oils, they are all made to the same specs. (more or less) but in the 2-stroke world, they are all different.
I just read some actual testing documents for API-TC... and there isn't a single TC-w oil that can even come close to passing the the certification tests. Not to mention, that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to have a duel certified oil, since the base stock oil, and the metal/mineral additives are different.
I learned this lesson long ago when I was racing SCORE in SoCal. I had buddies that would eat dirt bike engines all the time, but once I switched to a superior oil (Caster 927) I NEVER lost an engine. (at the time, it was probably the most expensive oil available)
SurfBeat
Active Member
My reason for not using an API TC oil and instead using a TCW3 oil had nothing to do with being penurious, (I am a lawyer) but I simply refused to not walk lock-step with all the hype that has been written about the subject.
In my case, the hype has always centered on the argumennt that because a Rotax engine has a Rotary Valve, then it needs the added lubrication that only an API TC rated oil can provide.
In my case, when my engine froze on my 93 GTX, it was not caused by anything connected to the Rotary Valve (RV). In fact, when I looked at the the RV, it appeared brand new!
That said, the person that I purchased the crankshaft (CS) from to replace the defective CS told me that the defect was NOT caused by the type of oil that I used, Valvoline TCW3, but was a defect at the manufacturing stage.
That said, I was also told by the shop mechanic that sold me a replacement CS that the bearings on my CS appeared to have over-heated and it was his opinion that it MAY have been caused by the type of oil used, or could have simply been the result of inferior bearings being used like the CS was.
Moving on, a respected MECHANIC that contributes information on another forum has stated that he has never observed a SD engine failure that was caused by the operators use of a TCW3 oil.
That said, a very respected Forum member on this site (SeaDooSnipe) has pointed out, quite accurately in my opinion, that this Forum focuses on Sea Doos, so, use an oil that is recommended in the SD Operators Guide, an API TC rated oil, (Low Ash) be it manufactured by SD, Quicksilver, or a myriad of other manufactures which I posted on this site some time back.
By the amount of Threads posted on the subject of the type of oil to use in a SD, the topic can get heated. Some, out of insecurity, take the road to endeavor to ridicule or demean others than disagree because they don't like to be challenged.
For the record, I am only a Shade Tree mechanic, but I take the time to read and learn and not simply walk in lock-step with others opinions.
I've learned a lot on this site from very knowledgeable people, even from those that I may tend not to agree with on some issues.
In my case, the hype has always centered on the argumennt that because a Rotax engine has a Rotary Valve, then it needs the added lubrication that only an API TC rated oil can provide.
In my case, when my engine froze on my 93 GTX, it was not caused by anything connected to the Rotary Valve (RV). In fact, when I looked at the the RV, it appeared brand new!
That said, the person that I purchased the crankshaft (CS) from to replace the defective CS told me that the defect was NOT caused by the type of oil that I used, Valvoline TCW3, but was a defect at the manufacturing stage.
That said, I was also told by the shop mechanic that sold me a replacement CS that the bearings on my CS appeared to have over-heated and it was his opinion that it MAY have been caused by the type of oil used, or could have simply been the result of inferior bearings being used like the CS was.
Moving on, a respected MECHANIC that contributes information on another forum has stated that he has never observed a SD engine failure that was caused by the operators use of a TCW3 oil.
That said, a very respected Forum member on this site (SeaDooSnipe) has pointed out, quite accurately in my opinion, that this Forum focuses on Sea Doos, so, use an oil that is recommended in the SD Operators Guide, an API TC rated oil, (Low Ash) be it manufactured by SD, Quicksilver, or a myriad of other manufactures which I posted on this site some time back.
By the amount of Threads posted on the subject of the type of oil to use in a SD, the topic can get heated. Some, out of insecurity, take the road to endeavor to ridicule or demean others than disagree because they don't like to be challenged.
For the record, I am only a Shade Tree mechanic, but I take the time to read and learn and not simply walk in lock-step with others opinions.
I've learned a lot on this site from very knowledgeable people, even from those that I may tend not to agree with on some issues.
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SurfBeat
Active Member
Here is the Part No. for Quicksilver PWC 2-Cycle oil.
92-858033Q01
It is filled in a silver container and is a blend, meaning part mineral (80%+-) and part synthetic (20%+-).
Of import to note, the label will not state that it is a Low Ash oil or can be used in injection type engines, nor will it inform that it is a blend, however, I personally confirmed affirmative answers to each of those questions from the manufacturer, (Mercury Marine) not a dealer.
If you have a Doo with a RAVE, then, in my opinion, (Shade Tree mechanic) you need 100% synthetic, filled in a black container.
I recall that SeaDooSnipe posted the Part No. of that oil previously.
92-858033Q01
It is filled in a silver container and is a blend, meaning part mineral (80%+-) and part synthetic (20%+-).
Of import to note, the label will not state that it is a Low Ash oil or can be used in injection type engines, nor will it inform that it is a blend, however, I personally confirmed affirmative answers to each of those questions from the manufacturer, (Mercury Marine) not a dealer.
If you have a Doo with a RAVE, then, in my opinion, (Shade Tree mechanic) you need 100% synthetic, filled in a black container.
I recall that SeaDooSnipe posted the Part No. of that oil previously.
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Bigger issues at hand
Well looks like ill be changing my oils again,might as well since i have to tear the whole rear of the boat apart lol. I took the boat to the lake sunday,and port engine was acting like it was hitting rev limit 3.5k starboard was cavitating at 5k and hitting 7k instantly.Bilge pump was not working at all and after an hour 1/2 there was an uncomfortable amount of water in the hull.
But weird thing is after about 1/2 hour my port ran great same time my starboard started cutting out after hitting 4-5k and die out. So im gonna check my starboard carbon ring,wear ring,check both fuel filters again,new plugs etc.Oh also check power to bilge switch/pump!! Probably going to adjust rubber boot to apply more pressure to carbon ring,seem like a took water as soon as i dropped the boat in the water. Well thats my plan,Any suggestions would be appriciated. Ill try to add some pics to my next post,&hope i dont screw something up:bigear:
Well looks like ill be changing my oils again,might as well since i have to tear the whole rear of the boat apart lol. I took the boat to the lake sunday,and port engine was acting like it was hitting rev limit 3.5k starboard was cavitating at 5k and hitting 7k instantly.Bilge pump was not working at all and after an hour 1/2 there was an uncomfortable amount of water in the hull.
But weird thing is after about 1/2 hour my port ran great same time my starboard started cutting out after hitting 4-5k and die out. So im gonna check my starboard carbon ring,wear ring,check both fuel filters again,new plugs etc.Oh also check power to bilge switch/pump!! Probably going to adjust rubber boot to apply more pressure to carbon ring,seem like a took water as soon as i dropped the boat in the water. Well thats my plan,Any suggestions would be appriciated. Ill try to add some pics to my next post,&hope i dont screw something up:bigear:
Quicksilver...?
The pix of the Quicksilver oil you have posted is of a low ash, AP-TC oil. This oil does not meet the TCW-3 oil requirement. You can use this in your Seadoo, though I would not suggest you use it in anything newer than a 94 or 95. Use it with the 657cc engine or smaller.
I also have a thread in here somewhere with pix of the oil I use. I use the Quicksilver "Full Synthetic" oils. I use it in my GTX and Challenger. I took the head off my GTX last year and the piston was in such good shape, I was able to read the piston size that was stamped in the dome. That's how clean it burns.
The "Full Synthetic" oil meets all the Rotax requirements for our engines. If you are using the Quicksilver blend, you can swith up to the Full. But, do not use the Blend if you are using the Full, without a total clean out.
You do have to be careful because Quicksilver was first formulated for their Merc outboard engines. The TCW-3 oils is their primary moneymaker. So, make sure you read the back of the bottle and see that it states it's not a TCW-3 oil.
I also read somewhere that oil requirments have something to do with "Rave" valves. This is a myth. The low ash oil is required because of the variable rate in which we use our oil. It has nothing to do with the RAVE valves....:cheers:
The pix of the Quicksilver oil you have posted is of a low ash, AP-TC oil. This oil does not meet the TCW-3 oil requirement. You can use this in your Seadoo, though I would not suggest you use it in anything newer than a 94 or 95. Use it with the 657cc engine or smaller.
I also have a thread in here somewhere with pix of the oil I use. I use the Quicksilver "Full Synthetic" oils. I use it in my GTX and Challenger. I took the head off my GTX last year and the piston was in such good shape, I was able to read the piston size that was stamped in the dome. That's how clean it burns.
The "Full Synthetic" oil meets all the Rotax requirements for our engines. If you are using the Quicksilver blend, you can swith up to the Full. But, do not use the Blend if you are using the Full, without a total clean out.
You do have to be careful because Quicksilver was first formulated for their Merc outboard engines. The TCW-3 oils is their primary moneymaker. So, make sure you read the back of the bottle and see that it states it's not a TCW-3 oil.
I also read somewhere that oil requirments have something to do with "Rave" valves. This is a myth. The low ash oil is required because of the variable rate in which we use our oil. It has nothing to do with the RAVE valves....:cheers:
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