Place Trim Kit

[buckeye_paul]

I installed my trim kit today. I'm taking the boat out tomorrow so I'll give some feedback.
I had to modify my ladder because it was in the way. I didn't see that coming. I also had to be a contortionist to get the hydraulic hoses routed in the engine compartment.

 

[buckeye_paul]

More Pictures

 

[buckeye_paul]

More Info

1. The trim plate is stainless steel and high quality.
2. The aluminum housing that attaches to the pump is also high quality.
3. The cylinders seem to be of quality material.
4. The pre-bent hoses that go between the cylinders and the T fittings on the outside of the hull, are so short that they limit any opportunity to locate the transom holes somewhere else.
5. The pump is made by Bennet which is a trusted name in trim tabs.
6. The mounting bracket for the pump is made of plastic and I don't know how it could take the pounding of jumping waves. I made a temporary bracket and mounted it to my unused oil storage tank.
7. The kit comes with plenty of straight hose so that the pump can be located just about anywhere inside of the engine compartment.
8. The wire harness was long enough but just barely. I think if my boat was a 20 footer it might have been too short. My pump is located in the left side of the engine compartment.
9. The switch that comes with the kit isn't what I would use for a marine environment. I ordered a steering wheel mounted switch from Amazon and got it the same day my trim kit got to me. Diodes need installed in the switch circuit for this type of switch.

 

[Dr Honda]

What were the diodes for?

 

[buckeye_paul]

diodes

What were the diodes for?

The switch that came with the kit is a DPDT toggle. The steering wheel switch is two SPST push-buttons with a common power wire. The DPDT switch has four contacts, the SPST switches have two contacts.
What I think they are doing with the diodes is: (And I could be wrong) Isolating the pump motors direction signal from the pump valves signal. This wiring diagram is on their website. If I could find some 12v relays I could do it without the diodes, but they work.

http://www.placediverter.com/instructions/CHANGE NOZZLE DIRECTION.png

 

[buckeye_paul]

Test drive

I installed my trim kit today. Overall it was a pain in the ass. I'm taking the boat out tomorrow so I'll give some feedback.
I had to modify my ladder because it was in the way. I didn't see that coming. I also had to be a contortionist to get the hydraulic hoses routed in the engine compartment. I hope it's worth it. It cost just over $700

Got the boat wet today. The trim kit really does the trick in choppy water. Unfortunately, shortly after setting out for Kelley's Island (Lake Erie) the wind changed and we found ourselves in three foot swells. The hull on this boat can't handle waves like that very well and the trim kit isn't designed for that. Tomorrow we plan on putting it in the river which will be a better opportunity to see what the trim kit does.

 

[Dr Honda]

I hear it can get rough on the big lakes.

Once I get the Islandia up and running... We are going to make a trip up to lake Erie.

 

[Al Hibbert]

Hey paul.. my trim tabs are two placed on either side of the jet not under it.. that was what I thought you were getting.. and with two you can balance the boat better in side winds.. I do like the steering wheel mount. better spot than where mine was placed by prev owner.. it looks like it was a bitch to install..

 

[buckeye_paul]

The worst part was getting the hoses routed in the engine compartment. They come in right behind the motor. It does stop the porpoising which was what I wanted it for. The issue is: When the tab is down the boat pulls to the left bad. I'm going to investigate and I'll let everybody know. Trim tabs would have been a harder installation with about a dozen holes in the hull. This setup only needed two holes, that is what I liked about it.

Peace

 

[Dr Honda]

Is the tab mounted a little off? or is there a twist in the plate?

 

[buckeye_paul]

Is the tab mounted a little off? or is there a twist in the plate?

No way to mis-align the tab. It used four existing holes on the jet pump for mounting. No twist in the plate either. Both cylinders are fed in parallel so it can't be a problem with the pump. I'm thinking the left one must be weaker than the right one. I sent an email to the manufacturer. I bet they've seen this before. Hopefully it's a simple fix.

 

[buckeye_paul]

Need some help

No way to mis-align the tab. It used four existing holes on the jet pump for mounting. No twist in the plate either. Both cylinders are fed in parallel so it can't be a problem with the pump. I'm thinking the left one must be weaker than the right one. I sent an email to the manufacturer. I bet they've seen this before. Hopefully it's a simple fix.

I talked to Tim Place on the phone yesterday. He feels that I have a bow steering issue. He said I can return the kit. I may do that but first I would like some help from someone who has this trim system. Here's what I've noticed.

With the boat on the trailer:

a) With the trim plate fully up it is completely stable. No wobble in the plate. The cylinder shafts have no movement.
b) With the plate fully down it is also stable. No wobble and the cylinder shafts have no movement.
c) If the plate is anywhere in between the full up or full down position, I can wobble the plate because the cylinder shafts are moving.

Could someone out there who has this system check their plate to verify my findings?

A friend suggested I try bleeding the lines. I had my daughter's boyfriend activate the switch while I loosened each cylinder connection and bled them. I'm not sure how much it helped but it seems slightly stiffer.

I like the simplicity of this system and would like to keep it. It does cure the porpoising which is why I bought it.

Thanks

 

[johnhibbs]

I have the same Place Diverter on my 2000 Challenger (yr 2000) and it works great. I wouldn't want this boat if I didn't have the Place Diverter. I have had some wear & tear isssues over the years and needed to replaced the cylinders. I haven't had it cause the boat to pull to the side though. The system is self-bleeding by raising and lowering the plate a few times. When the plate is in any position is should be rock solid with no wobble. Is there a brass bearing in the cylinder where it connects to the black bar at the top? The brass bearing will make the thru hole in the cylinder last longer. The hole will gradually wear out and get bigger and finally break through without the bearing. If this doesn't make sense I can send more photos with arrows. I would check the hose lines very carefully. Make sure something isn't reversed by mistake. Maybe disconnect the plate from the cylinders and make sure both cylinders are rock solid. It sounds like one of them is leaking internally. We can solve this!

 

[johnhibbs]

Did you use the correct fluid? Is it full? Just asking.

 

[buckeye_paul]

Thanks for the help. The tank is full, the connections are correct as far as I can tell, and I used ATF transmission fluid. It does operate correctly as far as going up and down. I gave Tim Place all of the information that I have posted here. He is sure it is a characteristic of the boat hull. I told him that I am going to swap the cylinders before i take the boat out next and see if it then pulls to the right. If that is the case there might just be something wrong with a cylinder.

 

[johnhibbs]

If I put the plate all the way down at high speed the boat can over steer. I wouldn't recommend lowering the plate all the way down if you are going over 35 mph. I usually only lower it just enough to stop the porposing. I tap the toggle switch up or down to where the ride smooths out and I don't lower the plate any more than that. The plate lowers down pretty fast too. Maybe 2 or 3 seconds before it's all the way down.

Just as an experiment can you try the switch that came with the system.

If I push up on one side of the plate the other side does go down but only by about 3/8". If I push up or down in the middle it is very solid in any position (all the way up, down or inbetween)

 

[buckeye_paul]

I tried the switch that came with it. Same problem.

 

[buckeye_paul]

Lenco Trim Tabs

I tried the switch that came with it. Same problem.

I sent the Place Trim System back. He was very helpful and we both agreed that I probably wouldn't be happy in the long run. Basically it was an $80 trial that failed (Shipping costs both ways). After the money was refunded to my cc I ordered a set of Lenco trim tabs. I installed them this week and tried them out today. Wow! I love them. What a difference. I couldn't be happier. With the optional LED tactile switch controls this kit cost me under $650.

Just to be clear, I highly recommend Lenco's trim tabs. A special thanks to Al H. for his help.

I was on the fence to begin with and was talked into the Place system because I read the posts in this forum. I wish I would have went with the tabs to begin with.

 

[go-hokies]

I sent the Place Trim System back. He was very helpful and we both agreed that I probably wouldn't be happy in the long run. Basically it was an $80 trial that failed (Shipping costs both ways). After the money was refunded to my cc I ordered a set of Lenco trim tabs. I installed them this week and tried them out today. Wow! I love them. What a difference. I couldn't be happier. With the optional LED tactile switch controls this kit cost me under $650.

Just to be clear, I highly recommend Lenco's trim tabs. A special thanks to Al H. for his help.



I was on the fence to begin with and was talked into the Place system because I read the posts in this forum. I wish I would have went with the tabs to begin with.

Thinking about trim tabs.... What model did you end up using? Thanks, Mike

 

[buckeye_paul]

Just give Lenco a call and tell them what boat you have. They'll tell you what model will work best. I got the edge mount 15015-101 kit. I also upgraded to the tactile switch with LED indicators.
I had some issues with their technical support. The person there said I would need shims and special brackets because I would have to mount the actuators in an inverted position. After a lot of investigation, I found that not to be true. They are a normal relatively easy installation.

 

[AirSniper]

I just bought the Place Diverter for my Utopia 205. Havent started the install yet, but your pic of the switch setup looks great. Can you provide info on the switch & wire harness, perhaps even a pic of the switch mount if you still have it connected.

Searching for DPDT switches to mount on a steering wheel (to eliminate diodes) narrows the possibilities. I see you used SPDT, with diodes, may have to go that way to get an acceptable mounting.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[buckeye_paul]

The steering wheel switch was mounted with two screws through the plastic on the steering hub.
There is a wiring diagram for the diode set up on the place diverter web site.
Good luck. I hope it works better for you than it did for me.

 

[Tim75]

I have had the same Place system on my 2001 Challenger 2000 for about 5 years with the pump mounted almost exactly the same way.
My problems are similar and more. 98% usage is saltwater.
My boat pulls to the left also, but it did that before I installed the Place unit.
The cylinders are built for compressed air service at 100 PSI. The hydraulic application here is somewhat higher pressure. The rod end seals fail. Don't get caught leaking oil!!!
The end of the cylinder where the rod exits has a bronze bushing for wear properties. Fine for air service, but not marine. 3 dissimilar metals are an electrolysis problem.
The cylinders only last about 18 months. Replacements on ebay or from Grainger or MSC for $15 - $30 each. Cylinders are not repairable.

 

[AirSniper]

great info, thanks Tim. Hopefully Lake Erie is more friendly than the salt water. Nice to know that cylinders are readily available though. I can't imagine why it would pull to the left, but obviously several have had that. Maybe tha answer is to go fast all the time with the tab up.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

I have had the same Place system on my 2001 Challenger 2000 for about 5 years with the pump mounted almost exactly the same way.
My problems are similar and more. 98% usage is saltwater.
My boat pulls to the left also, but it did that before I installed the Place unit.
The cylinders are built for compressed air service at 100 PSI. The hydraulic application here is somewhat higher pressure. The rod end seals fail. Don't get caught leaking oil!!!
The end of the cylinder where the rod exits has a bronze bushing for wear properties. Fine for air service, but not marine. 3 dissimilar metals are an electrolysis problem.
The cylinders only last about 18 months. Replacements on ebay or from Grainger or MSC for $15 - $30 each. Cylinders are not repairable.

We have another Tim.
To make it official please post in here .... http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...s-in-real-life&p=313624&highlight=#post313624