Getting volts on black yellow kill wire?!

[henryb]

Even tho my boat is still in the shop, should be ready tomorrow (needed a new stator)... I remembered that when I changed a coil earlier this year, that I bought a whole "bank" of used coils with the casing and wires still connected... So I checked that package and you have it correct, from top to bottom:
Green
Green-white
Green-red


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[don't sink]

Thanks. What were your symptoms that had you bring the boat to be fixed?

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[henryb]

Only getting half power, revs only to 4000, no spark on port side cylinders... Seemed just like last year, when they swapped in a new switch box, but this year it was the stator! Eventually I will have all new electrical parts!


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[don't sink]

That is almost exactly what I have!! I bought new switch boxes which now seems to have been misdiagnosed. One box gave zero spark but if my stator is bad the box is good. Tomorrow I'm going full inspection on my stator! Damn thing was replaced last year too so I didn't go after it first thinking it was too new to be bad. Hopefully that is it and I can sell the switch boxes to recover some funds! Great summer huh?

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[henryb]

Well, you have to take boat maintenance with a grain of salt, they are getting a bit old and sometimes it's hard to figure out exact what is causing the problem.

As I'm sure you know, there are triggers in that path as well which could cause similar firing problems?


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[don't sink]

Sooooooo........after a wasted summer of chasing electrical issues the problem has been resolved!! Have no idea what the volts on the yellow from the ECU was about but just disconnected the wire and boat runs fine. Real issues were needed a new switch box [MUST REPLACE BOTH!! Or bias will be off and fry old box] and the hidden problem was a bad ground wire on the lower port coil [Henry you reading this?]

We kept looking at the stator and testing since boat would not go above 3000rpm which is a sign of a bad stator but that little ground wire was somehow killing the whole performance of the boat.

What we did to try to fix boat not going over 3k rpm and stalling and sometimes not running at all
1st thought is was a fuel issue [drained 3 gallons of water out of tank!!]
2nd- pick up tube was jammed against bottom of gas tank from top of tank depressing over time- removed pick up tube and cut 1/4 inch off
3rd- tested fuel pump and primer and all wiring
4th-removed carbs- cleaned
5th-checked timing and related advancing
6- start over- look at electrical vs fuel
7-found port side bank not getting spark- replace both packs
8-problem still there! Do entire testing of all wiring from ignition to motor
8.5- replace spark plugs
9-found bad coil-replaced
10- still no spark on new coil- found bad ground wire.
11- boat is now running- still a little rough but will throw in another new set of plugs since the current have been abused from all this testing and misfiring.

Amazing how one little wire can send you in a completely different direction. It was a HUGE learning experience to both my tech and myself- I figured I paid for a course in M2 repair since the tech was excellent in showing me everything and encouraging me to be there when he worked on it. [mobile marine service] I can now tell you what every wire does, how it does it, what volts and how to check. We basically went through all systems so I should be good......though after this I am considering selling!!

 

[henryb]

Well that is excellent news... So now you are the "GoTo" guy on M2 electrical issues! LOL


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[henryb]

Interesting information on the lower port side coil... Same one that I replaced!!!
Also, I eventually got my engine running really well, it took a new stator and 2 new switch boxes. One of which Mercury replaced under warranty, and paid for the labour!
In all of this, I replaced that one ignition coil and put in a new voltage regulator.
All that matters is that the engine is running top notch, seriously running better then I've ever heard it run in the 2 summers I've owned it.


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[don't sink]

I'll leave that title to Doctor Honda! I'm still in training! I read your tale of woe and it is strange how we almost had the same issues. I still have not taken the boat out for a real long test so hopefully I will have the same results you had.

 

[Dr Honda]

Dam....


Electrical is tough over a keyboard. I was hoping you would take over. (LOL)

 

[don't sink]

Boat runs good but has loss of power out of hole and top end. Could just need to be run to clean out from testing. New fuel, plugs and I know I am getting good spark lol! So, going to open adjustment on Carb to see if that helps. Problem is I monkeyed with so much its hard to see what might have changed. Also put in a can of Seafoam.

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[don't sink]

So boat runs good but wont go past 4800 or 30mph. Ran fine before the switch box mess noted above. 5200 and 42. It feels fine though- not sputtering or bogging. Its almost like there isn't a problem. When I go left the rpms do go up to 5000 due to less resistance so I know the motor can go faster. Fresh gas, new plugs- throttle hitting all the full throttle stops. Its strange. Not thinking compression since it runs fine at low rpm and starts fine.

Any ideas?

 

[don't sink]

There is a noticeable [like drop in spark] at exactly 3000K. There is ALSO a distinctive notched spot on my throttle handle at 3000K. I can also hear it "click" a I move the handle to lower RPM's. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts on this theory but boat DEFINATELY is having something change in spark at 3000K. Thinking Stator or...DR Honda you posted this and would I even have this considering I have no neutral on my controls? :


"OK... now we have to address the hiding monster. In MOST of these boats... there's an item known as the throttle guardian. Over the years, it's moved location, and it's not on Seadoo's, or Mercury's wiring diagrams. Most of the time it's in the helm. it basically keeps you from revving the engine too hard in neutral, or reverse. The issue is... IT SUCKS !!!!!! when it fails, it causes all kinds of problems. I would spend a little time, and find it... AND KILL IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (lol)

 

[gioakjoe]

sound like you are in the same boat as me except we have different engines, my boat was doing the same thing and then it started stalling at everything above 3500rpm still trying to figure out why.

 

[don't sink]

So I installed another stator and now my issue has "flipped" Meaning I now have no issues ABOVE 3k but the drop in performance is BELOW 3k??!! The issue will go away if I disconnect the bk/wh wires from the switch boxes which is the "jumper" between the boxes. That tells me there is a bias issue between the switch boxes which are new. [which is scary considering the price!]

I am completely stumped what would be causing the issue and how due to stator it has "flipped"

I really want to figure this out before winter so start throwing out ideas!!!!

 

[henryb]

Wow, that is the craziest thing I've ever heard! Not sure what advice to give you... But swapping in a new stator and seeing the problem flip-flop, kind of suggests that maybe the wiring to the the switch boxes is wrong... But I am not an expert that is for sure. I ended up taking mine to a very experienced Mercury mechanic. I would fire off a PM to Dr Honda he is an expert and might have something more for you to go on.


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[don't sink]

When we installed the new switch boxes we noticed the old box wiring was "shared" between the boxes. Meaning the color coded wiring did not go directly to one box. The new switch boxes were wired directly and solely to their color matched wires. One would assume that would be correct. But...?

 

[henryb]

That is a very interesting point! I'm just wondering why the previous switch boxes were wired that way... That might lead you to the root cause?


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[don't sink]

So put the boat to bed for the winter still with the issue and Dr. Honda I have a question:

On one of your replies you suggested putting a 1 ohm resister on the wire getting volts- I have tried and replaced everything else electrical on this mess but I keep going back and thinking about the 1.34 volts from the ECU. I currently do not have the yellow/black wire in question connected but would like to reconnect MINUS the 1.34 volts.

So my question is...do I just need to solder on a 1 ohm resistor inline on my yellow/black wire? If not, how can I kill this voltage and reconnect the wires?

 

[Dr Honda]

I have to read over all this again. be back shortly.

 

[Dr Honda]

I had to step back... and give it some thought.... but wow.... it seems like everything has been changed and swapped.


So...

1) just for giggles... check the compression. I don't think it's an issue... but lets make sure.
2) Un-plug everything on the engine, and check for grounds. I'm thinking there is an open, or shorted wire somewhere, and it's messin' with us.


Now....

3) Why did you swap stators? Was the new one... "New" and OEM?
4) Did you check the "New" stator for proper resistance?
5) When the carbs came off to be cleaned... did you check the reeds?

 

[don't sink]

Compression was checked and came back fine-I swapped Stators since bad switch boxes are usually caused by a bad stator...plus I replaced everything else so what the hell..why not? LOL!

Never ventured into the reeds- what are their roles and what happens when they go bad?

That yellow black wire from the ECU must do something and I'm thinking the ECU is not getting a signal so it's limiting the RPM's.

 

[Dr Honda]

The reeds are basically the intake valves. The problems you are describing aren't generally the way reed issues show up. BUT, when everything has been changed... and we still have issues... then I figured it would be best to find out. Unfortunately, it's not easy to check, since the intake needs to come off.


Let me look over the wiring again.


Did you disconnect the wire from the ECU that had power? Also... I think I read that you put a 1 ohm resistor on that line. You should have tried a 1 M ohm. 1 ohm is almost nothing... and 1 Megaohm is almost infinite. SO... it will stop almost all current, but allow data to pass.

 

[don't sink]

Yeah, looking at info on reeds I'm going to say no too.

I misread your Ohm suggestion but have not put one on yet so I can adjust the size-

 

[Dr Honda]

welllllll................


I still need to dig into the wiring, but with all the parts swapping... and knowing that the ECU was in question... I'm wondering why that was never replaced? I know it may be expensive, but it doesn't seem to be a "Normal" issue with the 210 engine. (Switch boxes, and stator are the norm) So... because of that... I would be willing to buy a used one from ebay.

Did you ask the Merc tech about the ECU? was he able to get into it with his DDT?