97 GTi, small vibration, big vibration, quit, no spark

[luv2pla]

I have a 97 GTi that started vibrating a small amount, and then the vibration got bigger. I checked for sticks and crud in the impellor, but nothing there. The vibration got much more pronounced, and then it shut off. I tried to fire it back up and it wouldn't start. I checked and there is no spark to the plugs. I did check compression, and I have 120 on #1 and 110 on #2. I have pulled the front cover off the motor, but only see the flywheel, a big nut, and some wires running in behind the flywheel.

What should I look for to track down my problem?

 

[- BiRkS_]

Your motor mounts could be trashed, but odds are your electronics progressivly failed. Small vibration could be a few missfires, more vibration could be running on one cylinder and finally, something failed. Could be your stator, or any little water in your electronics. Open up the brain box and let everything dry out, you could use a little wd 40 to displace any water in the electronics. Try for spark, if there isnt any, check all fuses and linkages. There may be corrosion in one of the quick connects. If that doesnt work, your stator might be toast or internal coil? (i'm not too familiar with the 97) Depeding how you feel about working on engines, you might want to take it in. You will probably have to take the flywheel off if none of the above work.

 

[luv2pla]

The engine continued to run "fine" right up until it quit, i.e. the speed and power did not diminish as the vibration increased, so I don't think it was a progressively worse misfire. It felt like a mechanical imbalance more than anything. By big electronic box, I assume you mean the one that the plug wires, etc. come out of. I have opened that one up and it is quite dry with no visible corrosion. Are there fuses there? Also, do you have to have the special tools to get the flywheel off and into where the magneto is? I'm wondering if it might be the magneto woodruff key or something like that.

 

[96seadooxpBC]

If nothing appears to show electrically check you oil lines, is your ski still got the stock oil injection system? or is it premix? see if you can turn the motor over by hand without the plugs in. To me it kinda sounds like oil starvation, judging by what you've described. It could also be a clogged selector valve also. Give us a little info on the background of that thing

 

[luv2pla]

A little background first: I bought it new in 97, so I have always owned it. It really has performed flawlessly up until late last year, and that is when it started the vibration thing. In the past, I replaced the carbon ring/seal thru the hull, and re-lubed the impeller a time or two but that's it. There are no non-stock items on it.

I can turn it over by hand, or using the starter. I have the magneto cover off, and can turn the flywheel by hand, with or without the plugs in it. I will go through the electrical test today to see if it is getting power into the ignition box, or whatever the black-box that the plug wires come out of is callled. I don't know how to check the oil lines for plugging, but could look into that with a little direction.

Thanks.

 

[shakedown]

Bent drive shaft ?

 

[seadooya]

inspect the woodruff key, keeps flywheel alinged on crank. Use a test light at the white wire, on the coil while cranking. If it DOES NOT light up, then inspect the stator assy, located behind the flywheel. If it DOES light up, clip the plug wires 1/4in from boots and re-install. Have you tried new plugs yet?

 

[luv2pla]

I'll try new plugs, and then the wiring evaluation. But shouldn't the plug wires fire even if the plugs are not good, i.e. wire to ground instead of wire to plug to ground?

 

[seadooya]

not if the coil, is not getting a signal....white wire.

 

[luv2pla]

I don't have a test light, but I do have a multi-meter. I set it to the 25 volt range, connected the black lead to ground, and the red lead I poked into the white wire that goes to the coil. I connected the lanyard and cranked it over several times, but got no indication of voltage at the meter. Does that mean no power to the coil? Is my voltage range - 1 - 25 volts OK? What should I look for next? The stator? Is there an easy way to remove the flywheel without the special spanner wrench?

 

[- BiRkS_]

Your going to need a puller. (I think canadian tire might sell one or your local small engine repair shop should have one) Undo the centre nut on the flywheel and intall the puller. When the flywheel comes off, there will be a little wedge of metal on the shaft or in a groove in the flywheel. MAKE SURE YOU DONT LOOSE IT. If it is dammaged, you will need to buy a new one as this is a precision part and your engine will not run without it. There is another way to pull the flywheel off. (not recommended, but works) This methot works on outboards when you dont have a puller. You will need 2 screw drivers (preferably flat heads/straight), an extra person, and a hammer. Clean out the area infront of the flywheel (battery/brain box) You may need to take the exaust off depending on the space. Loosen the nut on the flywheel and bring it out so that the nut is flush with the end of the crankshaft. Put a screw driver on opposite sides and underneith the flywheel. Get one person to put pressure on one screw driver, while you hold pressure on the other. Using the hammer, Hit the centre of the nut straight on wilth one hard swing. If it doesnt come off, reposition and repeat the above. Like i said earlier, this method isnt recommended, as if you do it wrong, you could dammage something. It does work, ive done it lots of times on outboards, but the seadoo may be too cramped to do it.

 

[luv2pla]

I have access to a standard gear puller, just not the fancy one shown in the Seadoo manual.

I tried to do the generating coil verification test per the manual (minus the wiring harness adapter), and instead of getting the recommended 40 -- 76 ohms, I get no reading at all. I disconnected the harness closest to the flywheel end of the motor, and checked the across the two black wires.

Also, when testing the white coil wire for voltage, I got the meter to move a very, very small amount when the range was set to 5 volts instead of 25 volts, but the output was never ever a volt.

Once I do get into the magneto area, what do I check?

 

[- BiRkS_]

find the internal coil/magneto and check for contenuity. Im not sure what the ohm rating sould be but im sure somebody will be able to back me up. If you check it today, as long as you get close to the same rating as touching the + and - leads together. To check the internal coil for contenuity, put one lead on the little metal square surface that would be facing the flywheel if it were on. Then touch the other lead to the wire comming out of the internal coil (white wire i think).

 

[Bills86e]

A Diaper in the intake grate, rope twisted on drive. Post observations.
Excessive water in ski, motor turning light brownish, remove the plastic
PTO drive cover. Suction lines caught up in shaft? If the drive coupler screw clamp may have "grabbed them" if the boot gave way from the hull snout.

 

[luv2pla]

A Diaper in the intake grate, rope twisted on drive. Post observations.
Excessive water in ski, motor turning light brownish, remove the plastic
PTO drive cover. Suction lines caught up in shaft? If the drive coupler screw clamp may have "grabbed them" if the boot gave way from the hull snout.

The impeller and grate area is clean - it's all sitting on the trailer in my yard and I can see all the way through that end and there is nothing there.

 

[luv2pla]

find the internal coil/magneto and check for contenuity. Im not sure what the ohm rating sould be but im sure somebody will be able to back me up. If you check it today, as long as you get close to the same rating as touching the + and - leads together. To check the internal coil for contenuity, put one lead on the little metal square surface that would be facing the flywheel if it were on. Then touch the other lead to the wire comming out of the internal coil (white wire i think).

I'll get some tools and take this apart and do some checking tomorrow.

I put an ohm meter across the black and black/red wires coming out of the magneto. I get no response at all from the ohm-meter. When I check across the other two posts, yellow, yellow/black, it basically goes to 0 ohms like when you touch the two leads.

 

[luv2pla]

Here's what I found after removing the flywheel. First of all, the flywheel has four permanent magnets covered by four thin sheet-metal looking plates. One of mine has de-bonded and rotated around about 90 degress. My guess is this is where the vibration/imbalance came from. Second, the generating coil looks very rough - i.e. little bubbles in the potting instead of nice and smooth. My guess here is that the slipped cover somehow caused overheating in the coil. I don't know if I can re-bond the little cover on the flywheel. Does anyone know what kind of epoxy could be used there? I attached a few photos to show the status.

 

[Bills86e]

I have a used flywheel 290995118 for $75 + shipping, PM me or email me if interested. Bills86e

 

[luv2pla]

Is that the correct one for the 97 GTi? What about the generating coil? Know a good place to get one of those? It has no continuity through it. Also, any good way to get broken bolts out of the armature plate? Heating to 200F as specified in the manual does NOT break loose the Loc-Tite;-(

The parts locator says I need a 290995119 flywheel assy. Do you know if they are interchangeable?

OK, looked again - the 290995118 looks like just the center part without the "teeth". Is that what you have?

 

[Bills86e]

This furum is sponsored by Seadoowarehouse.com a part supplier, you can click on their link, click on year, then model, select the applicable section, find the part picture number, scroll & place a 1 (or number of parts) in the square box to its left,
then scroll to bottom and click that "add to basket" list then the part number & a purchase cost appears. Above that is a "clear the basket" button, if you are just browsing the HLSM microfishe. The pictures break the ski's internal parts down for visual interpretion. eBay.com is also another source. You can browse the clasifieds here at the Seadooforum, or place want to buy.

 

[Bills86e]

Flywheel

Is that the correct one for the 97 GTi? What about the generating coil? Know a good place to get one of those? It has no continuity through it. Also, any good way to get broken bolts out of the armature plate? Heating to 200F as specified in the manual does NOT break loose the Loc-Tite;-(

The parts locator says I need a 290995119 flywheel assy. Do you know if they are interchangeable?

OK, looked again - the 290995118 looks like just the center part without the "teeth". Is that what you have?

Here is the link, Possible you red the # wrong? I have the flywheel with
teeth. You need a woodruff key (yours good?) and obviously a stator too.
I will re-look: http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche..._oem/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=18&A=50&B=6&Action=O. I have the item 6-7 flywheel assy.
late model 587's also use a four wire stator.

 

[luv2pla]

My biggest problem right now is getting the broken-off screws from the generating coil out of the plate! It sounds like the same flywheel and magnet assembly, I assume?

 

[Bills86e]

Stator

Just remove the whole plate from the engine as most are sold that way, as this is a link to one being offered:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SEAD...6186909QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

You will need to carefully remove yours from the houseing. In order for the assembly four wires to go thru the houseing hole, you remove the plug by pulling the locking tooth out of the middle of the plug, then use a DETENT tool to push out the pins from the plug. You would need to make an orintation drawing to the plug vs wire color position in oeder to not mess that up. Notice that the one above comes with the wires and all you need, you may ask the seller in include the tooth & plug.

I accept payment via PAYPAL. Bills86e@aol.com

 

[Bills86e]

DUDE>>>>This must be your LUCKY day! I was cleaning my shelves and found a Stator that was there with the pins ends someone just cut off to get the sheath & wires thru the hole. Probly tossed up there many years ago. If you want it & flywheel
$100 shipped to your door. Use Paypal if you want it, will ship next day. Butt connectors can easily attach your wires without you messing with the plug if you cut yours.
If you want pictures of these, feel free to Email me. Bills86e

 

[luv2pla]

New-used flywheel, new magneto generator coil, started right up! Thanks for all the help and input (and parts) from the forum. Can't wait to get it in the water to see how that goes.