Looks what you posted is a close copy of the actual BRP tool #529 036 026
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1996 Pump Questions
- Thread starter gravitydrno
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
That thing looks pretty hefty, shove the bellows completely back with one finger might take longer adjusting it than to use it even. One difference is this leaves only one hand to work with while the clamp style leaves you with two hands.
Waterluvr
New Member
I really like your idea but the lack of space and any real bearing surface in back of the boot other than the clamp adjuster it's likely to wind up coming into contact with the last rib on the bellows and run the risk of tearing something. If there was more room to use like a piece of thicker polymer starboard or something for the back plate other than a thin piece of stainless or aluminum it would fly but it's got to be pretty thin to work.
I just spent like two hours in the bilge messing with it, I think pushing the stainless carrier from the front is the only real safe alternative. In my boat the second shaft groove is used to retain the carrier and there's not much compression at all left in that boot, plus side is hardly any water comes in the boat.
I'm not getting into that again without a tool, the first groove would be no problem by hand but the second one is a knuckle buster and I don't trust the bellows to compress properly unless heated any way more than being immersed in hot water for a little bit before installation.
Ok so recap….propulsion did not seem up to par….motors sounded ok and seemed to rev up to decent rpm’s (gauges work some times, sometimes they don’t)
New drive shaft, drive line rebuild kit and new pump. Old impeller was good so it was installed and clearance was .006. Install went good except for a split in the pto boot on the drive shaft clamp surface, installed hose clamp to hold it and test.
Water test went ….ok, split boot was not a problem, held fine. Propulsion had definite improvement but still seemed lower than I expected. Checked bilge while running everything looked good so decided to run it a while and then re-check so we took a cruise to the far end of The Lake and rechecked the bilge, no water so the new boots, carbon seal and stainless fitting were all working nicely….still wondering why propulsion was not where it should be.
Pulled it out of the water to check things over and noticed when shifter was in neutral port side reverse bucket was fully covering the nozzle but starboard side was covering only the top half of the nozzle, shift into drive and reverse bucket was positioned above the starboard nozzle but on the port side the bucket covered the top half of the nozzle…..
Decided to drop it in the water and make a trailer adjustment the re-load the boat and go home to make adjustments. Wife in the boat (she can’t back the trailer yet) I drop her in and when she fires the port side it begins to rev and move like it is in drive. I motion to kill it then restart, same thing. I dive in and pull the boat by line back to the dock and tie it off. After I make the trailer adjustments I attempt to take the boat out and figure out what was happening.
Port side was at partial throttle when lever was in neutral, starboard ran fine. Drive shifter seemed “tight”. Re-loaded the boat under power from starboard side only and headed home.
Removed the shift controls and WOW! Drive cable mount severely bent and one cable broken, this bent the port side throttle cable mount putting tension on the cable and why it was firing at partial throttle.
So….seems as though propulsion just might be fixed but I won’t know until I replace drive cable and fix mount….Looks like my season is most definitely over...
New drive shaft, drive line rebuild kit and new pump. Old impeller was good so it was installed and clearance was .006. Install went good except for a split in the pto boot on the drive shaft clamp surface, installed hose clamp to hold it and test.
Water test went ….ok, split boot was not a problem, held fine. Propulsion had definite improvement but still seemed lower than I expected. Checked bilge while running everything looked good so decided to run it a while and then re-check so we took a cruise to the far end of The Lake and rechecked the bilge, no water so the new boots, carbon seal and stainless fitting were all working nicely….still wondering why propulsion was not where it should be.
Pulled it out of the water to check things over and noticed when shifter was in neutral port side reverse bucket was fully covering the nozzle but starboard side was covering only the top half of the nozzle, shift into drive and reverse bucket was positioned above the starboard nozzle but on the port side the bucket covered the top half of the nozzle…..
Decided to drop it in the water and make a trailer adjustment the re-load the boat and go home to make adjustments. Wife in the boat (she can’t back the trailer yet) I drop her in and when she fires the port side it begins to rev and move like it is in drive. I motion to kill it then restart, same thing. I dive in and pull the boat by line back to the dock and tie it off. After I make the trailer adjustments I attempt to take the boat out and figure out what was happening.
Port side was at partial throttle when lever was in neutral, starboard ran fine. Drive shifter seemed “tight”. Re-loaded the boat under power from starboard side only and headed home.
Removed the shift controls and WOW! Drive cable mount severely bent and one cable broken, this bent the port side throttle cable mount putting tension on the cable and why it was firing at partial throttle.
So….seems as though propulsion just might be fixed but I won’t know until I replace drive cable and fix mount….Looks like my season is most definitely over...
Waterluvr
New Member
So, when you say propulsion isn't "up to par" are you saying the motors will not develop full throttle rps's and the boat does not quickly increase the hull speed to get on plane to a point where you can reduce the amount of throttle used to maintain a cruising speed?
If your tach gauges arent working why aren't you using an adjustable remote tach that senses wire pulse while you're working on it, you have to know exactly what rpm's your making to diagnose issues on these boats. Guessing what rpm ranges you're achieving based on engine sound and trying to diagnose hull speed related issues is pretty much wasting your time on the water doing it that way.
Something like this will work just fine: http://www.amazon.com/Penny-Tachometer-Stroke-Outboard-Mercury/dp/B00ACDP6YU
If your tach gauges arent working why aren't you using an adjustable remote tach that senses wire pulse while you're working on it, you have to know exactly what rpm's your making to diagnose issues on these boats. Guessing what rpm ranges you're achieving based on engine sound and trying to diagnose hull speed related issues is pretty much wasting your time on the water doing it that way.
Something like this will work just fine: http://www.amazon.com/Penny-Tachometer-Stroke-Outboard-Mercury/dp/B00ACDP6YU
Actually gauges were acting "normal" today and when I use the word propulsion I am talking about getting the boat moving, motors develop full throttle and both were showing at 7000rpm WOT and approx 1800rpm at idle.
If I go full throttle on one engine tach will show 7000rpm's but the one motor alone cannot get the boat to a plane, should it be able to?
Look at the first pic posted above, that picture is taken with shifter in drive, the port side reverse gate is partially covering the nozzle. Could that explain having issues getting the boat to plane?
Today WOT on both engines at the same time it was able to hit plane faster than I have ever seen it....but still seemed like something was "not right", I keep seeing that right pic....now I need two new reverse cables and a couple of mount plates before I can re-test.
If I go full throttle on one engine tach will show 7000rpm's but the one motor alone cannot get the boat to a plane, should it be able to?
Look at the first pic posted above, that picture is taken with shifter in drive, the port side reverse gate is partially covering the nozzle. Could that explain having issues getting the boat to plane?
Today WOT on both engines at the same time it was able to hit plane faster than I have ever seen it....but still seemed like something was "not right", I keep seeing that right pic....now I need two new reverse cables and a couple of mount plates before I can re-test.
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grinditout
Active Member
I have all those parts available.
Grinditout did you ever test that water sensor? and lets talk what parts and cost....
Waterluvr
New Member
Your reverse gate not opening all the way is certainly a major issue, you're likely wasting better than 50% of that jet's thrust. This wasn't an issue previously that just happened today I take it? So you're making WOT without cavitation and it's not bogging or hunting to get there? That's good to go and if there's no cavitation your right where you need to be with it.
I think it has been a condition for the last few outings and progressively getting worse, I cannot say I noticed the bucket positions prior to today. I believe what I was thinking was cavitation was the reverse gate dropped over the nozzle on the port side. Should one motor be able to pull the boat onto plane?
grinditout
Active Member
No
I am lazy, I figured you will need more than just it.
Seems I figured right.
PM me a list, when you figure out what you want.
I am lazy, I figured you will need more than just it.
Seems I figured right.
PM me a list, when you figure out what you want.
grinditout
Active Member
There are also updates to the reverse levers @ buckets and I have them to.
Waterluvr
New Member
Not under your conditions with one of the pumps having the reverse gate half closed, think of it as a volume issue more or less. If you had two kitchen faucet spouts running wide open side by side just a few inches apart and placed your hand half under one of the streams the other one is going to be interrupted as well.
grinditout
Active Member
You can also call me anytime 404-516-5228 Paul.
Waterluvr I am asking that if under normal conditions with only one motor running would it create enough thrust to pull the boat onto a plane?
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Paul, I will call you tomorrow.
Waterluvr
New Member
I would say yes, provided the motor was healthy and water conditions weren't bad with a light load on the boat it would take a little bit of time to get there as hull speed gradually increased.
Hopefully someone that owns the same model can share more input on how they handle with just one running, I was at the helm of a twin Speedster last week with twin 720's that turned out to have compression numbers in the 130-135 range on both motors and there was no tuning them to run any better. They absolutely were hurt with that much of a compression loss and hull / handling performance showed it.
I can't really get my 1800 onto plane with just one engine. If you're trying to do that, make sure the other engine is at least idling or pinch the proper hose so you don't ingest any water into that engine. You're thrust is certainly going to be affected by that bucket being in the way, just as waterluvr has suggested. On my boat, I have a rod connecting the buckets. As the shift cable raises the starboard bucket, the rod lifts the port bucket. How does it work on yours? My manual also has a procedure outlined for ensuring proper operation and adjustment of the shift cable.
Guest_User
New Member
Ditto, no way will one engine get the challenger 1800 on plane... and good advice^^^
grinditout
Active Member
A left and a right cable on 96.
No the speedster has separate cables linked together at the lever.
Yes all attempts were with both engines running, I was merely trying to see what kind of power I was getting from each side so I was throttling each motor separate from all scenarios. Both WOT and timing plane, throttle each separate at a time and time plane, bring to plane and throttle back then throttle up each side separately....you get the idea. Overall I think I had achieved good propulsion BUT that damn bucket being out of sync sure skewed the results but finally noticed more power from port. Cant wait to see what it does when ALL of its thrust is being used..... New cables being ordered tomorrow and shifter cable mounts have already been fixed.
So I have noticed in countless hours I have researching the parts and reading the manual for this boat that where the parts breakdown shows #17 o-ring going that the one I received from SBT was just a hair small and sat completely inside the recess to the point that I cannot see how this is sealing anything, am I missing something? The hole water passes through has threads on the pump but there is just a smooth hole on the pump mounting plate. Also, if using the neoprene seal is that to say that no use of silicone is needed for the pump? I figure all the other areas around the intake and where the ride plate meets the hull should be filled in but around the bolts holding the pump etc?
In my wait for the new cables I modified the cable bracket...when finished I started to wonder....is it now too strong that if something gives it's going to be the plastic shifters? Hope not. I added stainless plates between the thin factory side plates.
Now to re-assemble everything and take it out to see if I can really test both pumps!
Upon re-assembly I noticed the reverse gate lock on the port gate was worn and does not catch, this may have been the cause of the gate hanging down to interfere with the nozzle. Ordered two new lock kits from OSDParts.com
Now to re-assemble everything and take it out to see if I can really test both pumps!
Upon re-assembly I noticed the reverse gate lock on the port gate was worn and does not catch, this may have been the cause of the gate hanging down to interfere with the nozzle. Ordered two new lock kits from OSDParts.com
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grinditout
Active Member
It is out today, do you still need the part?
Everything is out and ready to ship, hull is going in the AM.
Sorry I missed this response, work has been keeping me away from the toy
you say it is out, is that to say that you have tested it? PM me a price.
you say it is out, is that to say that you have tested it? PM me a price.
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