1996 Pump Questions

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm at THE lake, you probably know exactly where.

Sure, it's not unusual for oil to seep past worn inner crank seals when the motor sits, the longer it sits the more likely. Good tight inner crank seals won't do this, well worn ones do it quickly and your oil tank contents can disappear into the crankcase if bad enough, some guys put a shutoff valve in the RV supply feed line to stop this during winter but it's stop-gap and if inners are worn that bad there's a chance outers are too and that can roast a piston.

Your bronze pump sure sounds okay to me, some forward/reverse play is normal, there's a thrust bearing and race the impeller pushes/loads the thrust bearing and all this stuff forward as you run water-loaded pump. Look for water inside the hub, if yes then there's a leak, pressure test the cavity to 10psi for 10 minutes. Anyway, I'm in the camp your splines are worn out, check the PTO hub carefully. Put plenty of grease in the splines during reassembly and give them a small drink once in a while b/c hungry grease worms live in there.

Air leaks around pump tunnel and drive shaft allow your impeller to ventilate, some call it cavitate but quickly explained these are two definitions I prefer to differentiate; cavitation involves the negative pressure at which the water "boils" and has nothing to do with air leaking into the pump from poor tunnel seals. Poor fit and condition of impeller and wear ring are culprits for cavitation, serrated edges of impeller blades aggravate this phenomenon.

The only thing I suggest you do back there is pressure check your jet pump oil cavity from the 1/8" pipe thread oil fill port and replace any deteriorated/missing seals that might allow air into low pressure side of the tunnel.

Rung out splines slip and won't transfer torque into the impeller.

I think the plastic pumps might be faster than the bronze ones or is it the other way around, but you gotta be careful with that b/c I think the impellers aren't interchangeable on some of those. Check that, I'm not sure but might be a concern.

Personally, I don't mess with jet skis much, mostly stern drives.

 

[gravitydrno]

Don't mess with as in work on? Your sig show a Sportster....The Speedster is the only jet I own. Going to put this thing back together and head to The Lake on Saturday to see how she does

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I meant I don't repair them professionally at my work and not certified on them, there's another guy here that repairs the skies. We aren't a Seadoo dealer either, LOL.

Yep, I do have a Sportster 951 boat, which is the one I've been running around in mostly the past couple years. The PO wanted to get rid of it b/c it had never been serviced, he was getting nervous and it had plenty of little things that needed repair, I wanted a small boat to play in b/c they're so much easier to deal with than the giant monstrosities so it was a good match.

 

[gravitydrno]

Well all parts came in and I have reassembled and installed everything except the metal clip on drive shaft. There did not seem like enough room for everything inside the bilge. I slid the boot onto the hull fitting and as far to the transom as I could with the carbon ring installed and then placed the pto boot on with the stainless ring on the pto side. Stainless ring is contacting carbon ring and pto boot and I still have to slide the stainless ring to the rear to install the metal clip. Does this seem correct? Seems as though the only other way to have more linear room is for motor to be farther to the front and yet I would think that would create to much end play in the drive shaft. Not to mention the pto boot ripped when I slid the drive shaft in!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Sounds like you got it right, the carbon ring bellows tensions the carbon ring against the stainless ring. If you pull the clip out and slide the stainless ring back you cn run as long as you like with the flush hose, otherwise the carbon ring friction overheats and causes ring damage, along with stainless ring o-rings and bellows.

The PTO boot keeps the grease in the splines, 6000+RPM it's gonna sling out pretty quick?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Well, I guess you'd have to slide the stainless ring toward bow, to relieve tension. You know what I meant!

 

[gravitydrno]

Yeah I understood back was towards the bow I have yet to attempt compressing the bellows to install the ring, I can tell that is going to be a bear and I might need another pair of hands to hold bellows while I install the ring or I will need to make something..............

 

[gravitydrno]

Well using a rubber mallet on the pto as a fulcrum for a large screwdriver against stainless ring to compress bellows I still cannot see the ring grooves or even one! Removed everything to take some measurements to see if this is going to be possible. It may be that the carbon ring is hitting the through hull fitting not allowing the rearward movement needed to get to the ring grooves.

Dis-assembled, then without boots I re-assembled and measured from through hull fitting to the first groove from PTO side and it measures 2 1/2", stainless fitting and carbon seal together measure 2" allowing for the amount of carbon ring inside the boot and the amount of boot over thr through hull fitting I must compress the boot so the bellows part is completely flat.

Thought came to mind after I wrote the above......I placed the boot in the microwave for one minute and it softened the rubber enough to fully compress and everything went back together in a snap. I am hoping the properties of the rubber will allow it to return to previous state once it cools.

Just need to replace the venturi, reverse bucket and cables and she's getting tested on Saturday. If all goes well then I will still have to do it all again to replace the PTO boot that has a slice in it now.

 

[Waterluvr]

Seriously, you're really going to water "test it" without the pto boot in place to retain grease to lubricate the pto and shaft splines? :facepalm:

 

[gravitydrno]

No way! The boot only has a small split on the drive shaft shoulder that does not extend to where it necks up to the PTO diameter shoulder, it is installed with a hose clamp on the section where the split is and it held when I greased the PTO. I have two options tomorrow to attempt to source a new one locally, if successful I will replace it before I go out. With my schedule the way it is this year I am already at the end of my season due to other commitments (land speed record stuff) so if this repair shows progress on the propulsion the plan is to do a complete restoration of the boat over the Fall/Winter to be ready to play next summer.

 

[Waterluvr]

My concern is that the force of the spinning shaft will open that tear right up and the atmosphere being let back in under high rpms's will turn your pto boot into a high speed grease slinger and everything with a spline gets cooked in short order.

Hate to see all your work on the shaft seal get overheated and lose your pto and shaft along with it just on account of needing a boot is all.

 

[gravitydrno]

Understand and appreciate the words! It is my intention to tear it down not tear it up!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Try using an open end or crescent wrench slipped over the stainless ring and see if that helps you when pushing against the bellows?

Edit: I see you got it already, so that's cool. Another idea is to take a heat gun or electric hairdryer to warm the bellows.

 

[gravitydrno]

I was using a large Klein screwdriver as the pry bar and it was bending quite a lot, no way I was getting any movement out of the boot without the assistance of leverage.

 

[Waterluvr]

I want one of these to make that job more tolerable, especially if the shaft groove closest to the transom leaves the OAL in spec for compressed length of the bellows and carbon seal per the manual specs.

I just can't see the stainless carrier ring not burning up it's o-rings pretty often and needing changed, fighting that bellows isn't worth it.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I want one of these to make that job more tolerable, especially if the shaft groove closest to the transom leaves the OAL in spec for compressed length of the bellows and carbon seal per the manual specs.

I just can't see the stainless carrier ring not burning up it's o-rings pretty often and needing changed, fighting that bellows isn't worth it.

View attachment 26705

There ya go, nice tool! I just slip a large crescent wrench over the stainless ring and push.

Most everyone already understands as do you: Water inside the pump tunnel lubricates and cools the carbon ring, running on land without heats them up and damages the rubber parts, might crack the carbon, too.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I was using a large Klein screwdriver as the pry bar and it was bending quite a lot, no way I was getting any movement out of the boot without the assistance of leverage.

Well you got it, that's what counts.

Maybe heat took some amount of tension out, hard to say, but it's still probably considerably better than re-using the old bellows.

 

[Waterluvr]

So that tool is sold for the 4 pumpers, wonder what the dimensional differences are? I have read there's a shop tool for the 2-strokes but can't seem to find one.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

So that tool is sold for the 4 pumpers, wonder what the dimensional differences are? I have read there's a shop tool for the 2-strokes but can't seem to find one.

Might be easy to make one even, if you really need it and time is on your side.

 

[Waterluvr]

Might be easy to make one even, if you really need it and time is on your side.

Yea, making one is on my radar was trying to find even an image of the OEM service tool for the stroker boats to see how it's configured. I thought of a simple pusher style rod with t-handle on a shaft with an slip over U shaped ring on the carrier end to engage it would even make the job much easier to do.

Might even be worth keeping the tool in the locker with an extra c clip, there are times when I might run about 6-8 miles from the port on Lake Michigan to get to a particular beach in ideal water conditions and that would be an issue if that c-clip ever failed.

 

[gravitydrno]

I had began the thought process of what it would take to make a tool to make the job easier and this is what I came up with. Slide the back plate over the rear part of the bellows and the front plate over the stainless fitting and using wing nuts on the studs bring the two plates together. Would leave hands free to install metal clip. Although after going through what I did yesterday I found the clip was not too hard to install with one hand.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yea, making one is on my radar was trying to find even an image of the OEM service tool for the stroker boats to see how it's configured. I thought of a simple pusher style rod with t-handle on a shaft with an slip over U shaped ring on the carrier end to engage it would even make the job much easier to do.

Might even be worth keeping the tool in the locker with an extra c clip, there are times when I might run about 6-8 miles from the port on Lake Michigan to get to a particular beach in ideal water conditions and that would be an issue if that c-clip ever failed.

Yeah, I haven't really given it much thought but I guess we could notch the end of a section of square tubing and attach a pivot rod about 6 inches above that, to duplicate the device you posted.

As far as failures go, this type of carbon seal setup doesn't require servicing often enough to justify carrying repair tools in the boat IMO b/c the system seems to remain trouble-free for a good majority of the pump maintenance cycle. The retaining ring is captured under the stainless seal ring so chances of developing an issue with the retaining ring are pretty slim, I think.

Aside: My friend who turns wrenches for the local John Deere dealership here is constantly riding me for carrying too many tools around in my trunk already, LOL

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

View attachment 26709

This looks like a pretty decent idea to me. Not very bulky, either.

 

[Waterluvr]

This looks like a pretty decent idea to me. Not very bulky, either.

Yea, I like that a lot actually pull it versus pushing it. Still looking for an image for the factory tool to see how they did it.

Whatever works best I'll make up a couple of them and send you guys an early Christmas present I gotta have one!

 

[gravitydrno]

That idea came to mind when I spotted the stainless bar stock leaning in the corner of my garage while I was drinking a celebratory beer and cussing the boot!