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1995 Twin Speedster oil?
- Thread starter MPDano
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DanSquires
Well-Known Member
Excellent advice.
H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
Why? Point me to a thread where literally any of the current XPS for QS oil formulations are discussed in an educated manner. I've found literally none. Every oil thread almost exclusively discusses oils that no longer exist.
chipskittles
Member
I think he was just poking fun at the reality that oil threads always devolve into a battle of the opinions.
DanSquires
Well-Known Member
because you can literally google what oil to use and find 4 billion discussions that usually end up as a s*it show with hurt feelings and puffy chests.
I use, and what I recommend to others to use, is Mystik JT4 synthetic. I use it on everything I own.. raves, no raves, RV, reeds, whatever.
Completely agree on both points. Youll find most members ignore any post on oil questions for this exact reason. Noone ever agrees, so do your resesarch and use what you are comfortable with.
I also use the Mystic JT4 full syn pwc oil. I bought about 12 gallons at one of the Academy sports sales and got it for around $21 a gallon shipped after sale and rebates.
I also use the Mystic JT4 full syn pwc oil. I bought about 12 gallons at one of the Academy sports sales and got it for around $21 a gallon shipped after sale and rebates.
H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
My apologies for missing the humor.
And I agree that all the oil threads devolve. My hopes for this one are higher.
They are all outdated though. And until I see some cited facts I'll continue to wish for them.
chipskittles
Member
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DanSquires
Well-Known Member
I don't know why it isn't on the bottles anymore but seadoo has changed the packaging about 10 times and makes it more confusing each time. I can assure you it is API-TC rated and good to use in your Seadoo. I'll see if I have any old bottles at home that list it. Keep in mind that seadoo actually recommends either their mineral oil or their full synthetic so they really don't need to list the API-TC on their bottles. API-TC rating is listed as an alternative to the seadoo branded oils.
You could do a little research on the ones I listed as see for yourself they are API-TC rated oils...
"Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2-Cycle Personal Watercraft Engine Oil utilizes premium synthetic base oils combined with a special synthetic additive system to provide superior high temperature oxidation stability and wear protection. Its unique tri-blend of synthetic components provides ideal high temperature performance and quick starts in all temperatures. This balance of synthetic components enhances fuel economy, and improves high temperature thermal and oxidation stability. The special additive system designed for specific use in Personal Watercraft engines provides the best protection against engine wear, rust and corrosion, and ensures engine cleanliness. The advanced formula used in Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2-Cycle Personal Watercraft Engine Oil far exceeds Personal Watercraft engine requirements for an API TC and JASO FC quality oil."
Here is your proof that the seadoo's require API-TC oil and not to use TCW-3 straight from the owner's manual.
H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
Thanks for those pages. I looked in my manual and do now see where it says to use api-tc if Bombardier Injection Oil isn't available. So I'm glad we have that officially determined now.
API certified oils bear the API seal:
https://motoroilmatters.org/Protect-Your-Car/Learn-About-Standards
None of the oils discussed so far bear that seal. They all merely state that they meet or exceed that specification. XPS doesn't bear the seal or claim to meet the standards.
In addition to changing their packaging, SeaDoo has also changed their formulations. I think the obvious most likely explanation as to why their oils no longer bear the API seal is that they changed their formulation and did not care to pay to have the new formulation certified by the obsolete specification. My only point here is that, if SeaDoo no longer feels the API cert is important, why must we hold any of the others to that same standard? At least many of the others publish their specs! (That comment is directed mainly at any "XPS or die" people.)
Thanks for the offer to find an old bottle but it doesn't have any bearing here IMO since it's likely not what is currently being sold.
I just ran to Academy and got some Mystic, so thanks for that recommendation as well, everyone. $23/gal is a lot better than $40!
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chipskittles
Member
You cannot beat that price. I have been debating switching to Mystic for a while; might have to get a jug and see how some mixes with Mercury.
DanSquires
Well-Known Member
it's hit or miss if academy has any around here, which is why I started ordering 6 at a time from the link I shared
I think you are missing the point on the API-TC oil...
It doesn't have to have the seal on the bottle and as far back as I can remember to the early 90's never had an API seal like the car oils do.
It just needs to meet or exceed the API-TC spec which all of the ones I have listed clearly state that they do and just as the seadoo manual states that it must meet the API-TC spec. So just because you don't see the seal on the bottle doesn't mean that the spec is no good or the oil doesn't meet the lubrication requirement.
As far as seadoo changing the the oil formula that also isn't correct.. The mineral oil has always been the same from the 90's to today, only the bottle has changed. they also used to have a semi-synthetic that was orange.
The only oil that has changed is the XPS full synthetic as it was first made by Castrol and was gold color then about 10 or so years ago production changed to RedLine oils and it became red in color but it has always held the same specification. Seadoo doesn't make oil, and never has, they contract companies to make it to their specifications which haven't changed.
In the end the Mystic will serve you well and is the correct oil.
Be sure you drain out all the old oil and replace the inline oil filters before switching oil as most oils don't mix well with each other and can clog your oil system and trashing your engines.
It doesn't have to have the seal on the bottle and as far back as I can remember to the early 90's never had an API seal like the car oils do.
It just needs to meet or exceed the API-TC spec which all of the ones I have listed clearly state that they do and just as the seadoo manual states that it must meet the API-TC spec. So just because you don't see the seal on the bottle doesn't mean that the spec is no good or the oil doesn't meet the lubrication requirement.
As far as seadoo changing the the oil formula that also isn't correct.. The mineral oil has always been the same from the 90's to today, only the bottle has changed. they also used to have a semi-synthetic that was orange.
The only oil that has changed is the XPS full synthetic as it was first made by Castrol and was gold color then about 10 or so years ago production changed to RedLine oils and it became red in color but it has always held the same specification. Seadoo doesn't make oil, and never has, they contract companies to make it to their specifications which haven't changed.
In the end the Mystic will serve you well and is the correct oil.
Be sure you drain out all the old oil and replace the inline oil filters before switching oil as most oils don't mix well with each other and can clog your oil system and trashing your engines.
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H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
During these searches somewhere I saw where all xps oils are made by Castrol. I don't know where I saw that though.
My point about the API cert is just that I don't think any of us should care about it because Sea-Doo obviously doesn't. And none of the other oils do either. There is no certifiable evidence that I've found showing that seado oil is better, or even as good, as any of the others. Unless I see some sort of proof that their oil is api certified, I'm going to have to go by their bottle which says that it isn't, just like all the others.
Anyway I think I'm good now with what I've learned. Thanks for entertaining my curiosity.
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H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
I've been using the Quicksilver PWC. It's purple. The Mystic is purple as well. I combined a little of both in a mason jar just now. They seemed to mix together just fine. I'm going to let it sit overnight to see if it does anything funky, like separating, spontaneously combusting, etc.
I know this isn't an indicator of what they'll do once burned together, but it's an experiment to occupy my mind at least. My oil system is deleted so I don't have to worry about clogging lines and such.
H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
Yup.
I don’t understand why you think the API-TC spec isn’t important.
No, you don’t have to run Seadoo XPS specifically but you still need to run an API-TC oil.
I would also agree that the Seadoo XPS isn’t any better or worse than the others I listed.
I run the XPS full synthetic in all of my seadoo’s and all my friends for conscience of only buying one oil and being able to share with the group in a pinch.
Here you go, even when your boat was brand new the oil didn’t specifically list API-TC on the label.
FYI: in my superjets I run Klotz SkiCraft as premix.
No, you don’t have to run Seadoo XPS specifically but you still need to run an API-TC oil.
I would also agree that the Seadoo XPS isn’t any better or worse than the others I listed.
I run the XPS full synthetic in all of my seadoo’s and all my friends for conscience of only buying one oil and being able to share with the group in a pinch.
Here you go, even when your boat was brand new the oil didn’t specifically list API-TC on the label.
FYI: in my superjets I run Klotz SkiCraft as premix.
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H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
Because SeaDoo doesn't. And no API-TC certified oils exist today. All we have are oils that claim to be as good or better with very little info to discern between them.
You can search all active API licensees and product names on their site:
https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-licensee-directory
SeaDoo, Sea Doo, Sea-Doo, XPS, and Bombardier are not in the list. 3 Castrol subsidiaries are but none of their products are 2-stroke oil or API-TC. Redline is, but again, no products that apply to us. In fact, I can find no current API-TC certifications of any kind, which further implies that no oils today are. Not surprising because it's an obsolete rating anyway. So the best we have to go by today is the indirect implications on the backs of bottles. Or in Sea-Doo's case, just their biased word that it is the best.
Yes, I now think this is accurate.
I guess I'm kind of skipping through all the oil threads of old and projecting them here without explicitly saying, so forgive me for not explaining myself clearly. In many of those older threads there are people who say XPS or die. They seem to indicate that is because XPS was the only API-TC. If that was true back then, I don't know. But it's not true now, which is why I think saying that people shouldn't ask questions that are relevant today is ill-spirited. But I guess I should take that with a grain of salt because it was intended as humor.
MPDano
Member
Lol (Never start an oil thread.). Sorry 'bout that but I got so confused reading other threads, and wanted to make sure I understand the differences and what I should use in my older motor. I bought the Seadoo XPS 2T CARB Mineral, so it's a done deal for me. Everyone's input here has been awesome and informative. Thanks guys!
The big takeaway from all of this is don’t run TCW-3 oil in your Seadoo.
If it’s a 580-720 run the Seadoo Carb 2T or any of the others listed above. If it’s a 787 or 951 you have to run full synthetic API-TC equivalent oil. Hopefully we can all agree on this.
If it’s a 580-720 run the Seadoo Carb 2T or any of the others listed above. If it’s a 787 or 951 you have to run full synthetic API-TC equivalent oil. Hopefully we can all agree on this.
H€PHÆ$TU$
Active Member
Agreed.
So I went through all the oils you listed earlier. Of them, only Mystic, Lucas, and Amsoil publish any tech data. I made a table comparing them all which I can post, but I'm not sure how helpful it is because they all list largely different items. But the one item I was looking for was ash content because that seems to be the big thing that Sea-Doo was after when they switched to the API-TC spec from the TCW3. Amsoil says nothing about ash content in their specs for Interceptor or Dominator. I guess we have to assume they do contain some amount of ash though since they claim to be as good or better than API-TC, JASO-FC, and JASO-FD, all of which require it. (They do have some side-by-side case studies with XPS on their site that are interesting.) But Mystic lists only .015% whereas Lucas lists .25%. That seems like a big difference but I honestly don't know if it's cause to base any decision on?
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