What to look for in a used PWC? What's the SBC of 2-strokes?

[CZSteve]

Thanks Doc.
They're on a dbl trailer w/ a straight frame; slight bend on one of the light extensions - tires aren't terrible but do show some cracking.

Plan on picking up a new battery.
Does the SeaDoo have lugs built into the motor for grounding the plug wires are do I need to rig up a jumper w/ aligator clips or something?
- Any visual / pics showing how people have rigged jumpers if that's what needs to be done?
- BTW - Saw the previous response regarding the removing the spark plugs but what's the most common size? I know there are different size spark plug sockets and also might depend on what plugs are currently in the motor.

BTW - Why is the double trailer VS two single trailers a tipping point for you?

Best,
SA

 

[Strizzo]

i'll agree with the Dr. on this, if the fuel lines are grey, but it will start and run on the trailer, you already know that you will need to replace the fuel lines and clean out the fuel system before you will be enjoying it on the lake, so if it bogs or dies at full throttle, you don't care because the carbs should get cleaned and re-set to factory specs anyways.

 

[Strizzo]

Thanks Doc.
They're on a dbl trailer w/ a straight frame; slight bend on one of the light extensions - tires aren't terrible but do show some cracking.

Plan on picking up a new battery.
Does the SeaDoo have lugs built into the motor for grounding the plug wires are do I need to rig up a jumper w/ aligator clips or something?
- Any visual / pics showing how people have rigged jumpers if that's what needs to be done?
- BTW - Saw the previous response regarding the removing the spark plugs but what's the most common size? I know there are different size spark plug sockets and also might depend on what plugs are currently in the motor.

BTW - Why is the double trailer VS two single trailers a tipping point for you?

Best,
SA

there should be grounding lugs near the CDI box where the wires come out to ground the plugs. be sure to do that as you don't want stray voltage jumping around with the aforementioned sensitive MPEM. I think Dr. Honda posted the spark plug socket size on the last page, so check that out.

the double vs. single trailer tipping point is basically that a good condition double is worth more than two singles, and its a helluva lot easier to take both skis to the lake on a double. singles are pretty thick on the ground while doubles are a little harder to come by. they're usually a lot easier to back down the ramp. tires usually tend to dry rot before they wear out, but budget 100-150 bucks for two new tire/rim combos from northern tool or harbor freight.

also FYI: when dealing with boats and trailers in TX, get a bill of sale for each individual item. The ski's should be easy enough, just fill out on the back of the title, he signs, you sign, the amount, and take that to the TPWD office. the trailer won't have a title, the only way to transfer is to get a copy of the registration receipt from the tax office and a signed bill of sale from the registered owner. this is why there are so many "homebuilt" trailers in TX. also, remember all the things you need for a complete bill of sale: Date, Seller, Buyer, item (as specific as possible with VIN/HIN/License plate #/TX #) and seller's signature. check that the guy you're buying from is the same person/name as what is on the title. it takes 30 days to get a title from TPWD, so if he bought from his brother in the last month, he either didn't transfer the title, or doesn't have them yet. also keep an eye out for co-owners listed on the title, they all have to sign it to sell, alive or dead.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... what he said.

Singles are a dime a dozen. I've sold CLEAN aluminum singles and only gotten $400 for them. (new would have been $1300) Unless you want to buy a new trailer... a double trailer without buying a couple more skis is hard to find. And... when you do find them... you will pay +$800 if it's in OK shape.

I got lucky, and found mine for $500, and it only really needed some new lights. But I have buddy who's been looking for 2 years. I told him to give up, and just buy a new one. I think a basic, steel double trailer will run you $1200 to $1500.

 

[Strizzo]

i was lucky as well to find one in need of some TLC for 550, i replaced the carpets, tires, and one rear marker light (guy had already replaced the dryrotted tail/brake and side marker lights) and its like new. i was trolling CL in houston and dallas trying to find mine, most are not great deals, but when the good ones pop up, they go quick.

 

[CZSteve]

OK, plan on going back Saturday morning to check out the GTX pair further and buy if they appear OK based upon a dry / land inspection.
Will do as the Dr. ordered....
- Bring a new battery.
- Dry fire and run for a few seconds.
- Do a compression check (understand below 135 on compression is the concern point).

After the above should we hook up a water hose at rear of pump and run more bringing engine up to temp?
If so: How high should we turn on the water bib?
(of course I don't know what kind of water pressure is at his house).
I understand the sequence is engine on, water on, water off, engine off.

Anything other suggestions of things to check?
(The center info gauge on both ski's does have the wrinkled appearance and I have seen the link for the $20 fix of the polarized film assuming that's the problem).

Thanks again,
Steve

 

[Strizzo]

Look for grey fuel lines, if it has them they will all need to be replaced, and the carbs cleaned before it is water-ready. probably also should change the fuel selector as well. that is a bargaining chip for you, although i doubt he's going to go much lower than 2500, since thats a typical price for one water ready 97 gtx on a single trailer come summer.

i wouldn't worry too much about putting too much water through your cooling system as i would worry about not enough. the pressure normally comes from the jet pump nozzle, so i'm sure pressure at full throttle is much higher than your hose could likely supply. also, you're flushing the system in reverse, so its all basically going to fall out the jet pump. remember not to run much more than 5-10 minutes max on the hose to keep from overheating the carbon ring.

ALSO: remember to start the engine, THEN turn on the water, run for a while, shut the water off FIRST, then kill the engine.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Look for grey fuel lines, if it has them they will all need to be replaced, and the carbs cleaned before it is water-ready. probably also should change the fuel selector as well. that is a bargaining chip for you, although i doubt he's going to go much lower than 2500, since thats a typical price for one water ready 97 gtx on a single trailer come summer.

i wouldn't worry too much about putting too much water through your cooling system as i would worry about not enough. the pressure normally comes from the jet pump nozzle, so i'm sure pressure at full throttle is much higher than your hose could likely supply. also, you're flushing the system in reverse, so its all basically going to fall out the jet pump. remember not to run much more than 5-10 minutes max on the hose to keep from overheating the carbon ring.

ALSO: remember to start the engine, THEN turn on the water, run for a while, shut the water off FIRST, then kill the engine.

IMO, about 1/3 pressure on the hose is plenty, you don't need to blast it thru there, just enough so its pissing and water is coming out the back. Also, IMO, no need to run it for 5-10 minutes or even near that, running on water on a trailer you can find out what you need to know about the ski in under a minute. Once you rev it up, check for leaks inside, hit the throttle a couple of times, see that it rev's smooth and idles smooth, not sure what i'd do for the next 4 minutes ?

 

[Dr Honda]

Running on the trailer is pointless. A warm engine on the trailer wont' tell you anything different than a cold engine. Also... the carbon seal (driveshaft seal) is cooled by the lake water. It is not advised to run a seadoo out of the water. Also... without the pump being in the lake... there isn't a load on the engine.

If it starts... and has good compression... that all you can do if you aren't going to go for a ride.

 

[CZSteve]

IF compression is low best to walk away completely or negotiate price down?
- Assuming no bottom-end knock is it just a top end re-build or do most just go with a whole new re-built motor?
- If top end re-build only: Is that something a shade-tree mechanic can handle 100% or strong chance a machine shop will be required to bore out the cylinders? I have seen references to re-sleaving; is that a relatively simple process for a shade-tree?


Sorry, I'm used to car engines where boring and appropriately oversized pistons are the rule.

 

[DSchmidt54]

i would say 50% of the time , the wear on the cylinders is bad enough to where you need to have them bored to the first oversize.....keep in mind if you go any larger than the first oversize, you need to have the RAVE valves shaved accordingly so that they don't hit the pistons. Also , with oversized pistons you will need to adjust the fuel/oil mix to be more rich than stock do to the increased volume of the chamber......

But like Doc said, if you cant put it in the water, and it doesnt blow between 140-150 psi, low ball him....... anything below 130 is gonna need immediate rebuild. But if she idles smooth, on the hose, has good comp , updated fuel lines, and hes running the right oil.....go for it......but i would nock him 200 just for the lines.

the wrinkled polarizer really is an easy fix, just MAKE SURE you seal the info gauge incredibly well with some form of high adhesive sealant, i killed my info gauge and now i have to bust out another 175 for a new one......it sucks because it really is a crucial thing to have on a GTX.


Hope this helps.....

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

I mean, it all really depends on how the crank looks. If it has relatively low hours and no weird noises, you could probably use it again, i reused mine when my topend blew up, most just replace with an SBT tho. If your rebuilding top end, you will have to go to a machine shop and let them measure the piston and bore it to size. Re-sleaving...yeah, not simple at all. I had mine resleeved by FullBore, so i could go back to standard size pistons. If you go with overbore pistons, you have to trim the rave valves back so they dont hit the piston!

 

[CZSteve]

Alright, we're now $2200 lighter in our bank account
Negotiated down from $2500 because of the non-working info gauge. Both are wrinkled pretty bad and could not see anything on the display - hopefully it's just the $20 fix for the polarized film trick; but if not we have an additional $300 to compensate for new gauges.

Three out of the four holes registered @ 140 compression and the fourth was ~ 145. They both started after a just a little cranking which I did not think was bad considering they apparently had not been fired since early-mid summer.

Only surprise so far is that I didn't initially discover is that the front storage tub on one of the ski's had a cracked / caved bottom (it was covered by life jackets and I never pulled them to look). Looks like I should be able to rig / support the bottom to put Humpty back together some; otherwise I'll keep an eye out on eBay.

Plan on spending the winter by cleaning them up, new plugs, filters, hoses, wear ring, along with going over the trailer bearings and new straps - time will tell...

BTW - Ended up w/ the two GTX's (turned out they're 96 models).

 

[anthonygrato]

Sweet I have the 96 gtx pair. They look the same. There a lot of fun! Good luck!

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

Yeah my tub broke as well. I just drilled some holes on each side of the crack and zip tied them together. Works pretty good, people do it with atv fenders all the time instead of replacing. As long as all the plastic isnt cracked and missing, just piece it back together!

 

[Hghgrad]

I'm sure you'll be happy with the purchase. Sounds like you got a pretty good deal on them.

 

[CZSteve]

Thanks again to everyone here for the help and input.

 

[Dr Honda]

Congrats !! Sounds like you got a good deal. 140~145 psi is great. Those engines still have a lot of life in them.

One thing... I don't remember if we talked oils... but Rotax engine can ONLY burn an API-TC oil. DO NOT use a TC-w3 oil. And... since they have 800 engines... you need to run a synthetic.

If you don't know what the last owner was running... I would also drain the oil, and replace the filter... and bled the system. (Refill with a known good oil) It bad to mix 2-stroke oils.

Post up some pics when you get a chance.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Alright, we're now $2200 lighter in our bank account
BTW - Ended up w/ the two GTX's (turned out they're 96 models).

Sweet deal, I love my 96 GTX. This pass summer I relocated the tell tale outlet (also from the DR.), replaced the oil pump lines and had the Dr. go over my carbs, also adjusted the throttle cable so it opens fully.....top RPM is now about 7K or so

 

[Strizzo]

Congrats on the purchase, that's a smokin deal on those two with the double trailer. Maybe some weekend when i drag mine up to my parents in Keller we can ride together.

 

[DSchmidt54]

Epic DEAL! thats what a single GTX will go for around here in the summer! and you will no doubt love em....i absolutly love mine! And a word to the wiser on oils...........run Amsoil Interceptor, it has cleaning additives that keep the RAVES (powervalves) clean and the cylenders spottless............its about the same cost as XPS2 and it exceeds all expectations......oh, and it smells good to