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What to look for in a used PWC? What's the SBC of 2-strokes?

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Ive always really like the 97 GTI, it is a really good looking ski with probably the most reliable seadoo engine. I have ridden one before, it rides like a cadillac and is surprisingly faster than you would think. It also has nice features like good gauges, and it has reverse. It also is a proven ski that has never had any real "issues" like the fuel injected skis or direct injection. The fact that it has the same body style as some of the ski's even into the mid 2000s make it seem like it is not really outdated as well. It is a great family ski, and would think that this ski would fit what you are looking for about as good as any ski out there with your budget. Couple it with something like a 96 or 97 GSX, GS, GSI or XP and you would have a great, reliable, cheap to maintain family setup!
 
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Worth it! or just buy one for 700 with a trashed block and drop in a new SBT premiuim for 1200 ..... i did that with mine, bought mine with 350 hours on it , trashed motor, old fuel lines , bad gauges , and now i have it all redone and im only in it 2700
 
DSchmidt54 said:
What ? no love for the GTX? its only basically the fun version of the gti lol. I LOVE mine.
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Strizzo said:
nothing wrong with them, but they draw a premium down here for some reason. most for sale get listed for 2500-4500.
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Yeah, i think tho, with being a 3 seater, the fact is most people dont buy them for speed. I think that the 720 is more reliable and being a 3 seater i dont really know how much faster a 787 is over a 720. I also hate the color scheme on that green gtx, where i think the 97 GTi is one of the best lookin, older ski's out there. I think for what he wants, the pros of the GTi > GTX
 
here's another ad for a waveventure 700 and a GSX, says they only have 7hrs on them, but they look kinda rough, still a good deal for two skis if the hours are right.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/3435280423.html
3n23I23L35Ic5Nc5G9cbq1a6dc90290eb118f.jpg


EDIT: and another, this one's an 01 GTS with the 718, says it has the wrong size pistons installed? not sure if it was bored over and has standard pistons or what, but if thats the only issue it would only need a little wrenching.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/3383390940.html
3F53Jc3H85I35Ge5S1cb3c15c2a6eddc71188.jpg



couple of 700 hour vx110 rental skis, only a couple years old though:
http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/3361973111.html

3Ee3K73lb5E55F35H4cap6816685b056f1a38.jpg
 
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also check out the east texas and deep east texas CL, there is not a lot of demand for skis out there and the deals that get posted don't get seen as often. also arkansas if you can swing a drive up there, there are some pretty good deals to be found out there.
 
for the same $25 you can get an actron (yellow package) brand from o'vance zone. i like that i don't need any adapters for the seadoo threads, the ones on the hose are right, so no worries about losing adapters.
 
if you can budget $3750... drag an empty trailer over to Florida after new years day and my RX conversion will be ready for sale ...

2001 RX DI that is in the process of being converted to 951 CARB, Custom paint, (the flames are not decals) Custom cruiser seat is being designed as we speak now, will also have a brand new SBT engine with 11 months left on a year warranty :) Spotless inside and out. Double Trailer also available for $450, i've already re-carpeted the bunks and replaced the lights with LED's and new wire harness.

The GTX in the background has already been built, and sold but its now available for $2700. (I sold it to a buddy for 2500, he added a solas prop but the ski too big for him he wants to downsize to a GSX since right now he has to use a cherry picker to move it off the trailer onto a stand so it fits in the garage at night)

1.jpg


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Spimothy - that's sharp...Timothy Leary would dig it I'm sure... :thumbsup:

What compression range are we looking for on both a '97 717 GTI motor and also a '97 787 GTX motor - found a couple of GTX's I plan on checking out.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve, they should both be around 150 psi for a "new" engine. the lowest you'd want to see is around 130, lower than that and it will need a top end or full rebuild in a season or two most likely.

that is the compression tester i have, it has 14mm and 18mm threads. yami and seadoo spark plug threads are 14mm.


SPIM - is that gtx a DI, or has it been converted to carb?
 
i can say that without a doubt , the extra 25 hp packed into the GTX makes the difference between an awesome day on the water , and a "fun" day on the water, my buddy has a GTI with the 717 in it and we went out on the river one time , we had a little drag race from the entrance of the marina to the sand bar and my GTX got up on plane faster than the GTI and it was me and my girl on it, he was on his by himself. not only that, but we smoked him in the top end.....and i was still only running probably 95% throttle (about 6500rpms) so yeah , without a doubt, go with the 787.... it also makes for alot easier get ups when wakeboarding behind it.
 
Strizzo said:
Steve, they should both be around 150 psi for a "new" engine. the lowest you'd want to see is around 130, lower than that and it will need a top end or full rebuild in a season or two most likely.

that is the compression tester i have, it has 14mm and 18mm threads. yami and seadoo spark plug threads are 14mm.


SPIM - is that gtx a DI, or has it been converted to carb?
Click to expand...

yes, 150 in both holes, IMO anything lower than 145 = price deduction, unless your in a hurry, you can afford to be nit picky.

Striz, it was a DI, i stripped it out, pulled electronics, engine, fuel tank. Then I bought a GTXL for the replacement electronic parts and i'm moving stuff over. As far as I know the Pump and Driveline are the same. I still haven't moved the fuel tank out yet, I have to do it soon since it has to be swapped before the engine goes in.
 
Strizzo said:
I meant the GTX, i thought the red ones were DIs
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no, the 2000 GTX red was a carbed model, and IMO it was a significant improvement in color and styling over the 99 GTXL, the maroon was OK, but didn't hold up very well over the eyars,

the 2000 GTX DI's were white/blue I believe with some grey in the decals
 
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Compression test questions (for both a '97 GTI 717 & '98 GTX 787).
- What size socket for removing spark plugs?
- Do the plug wires need to be grounded if the safety lanyard is not engaged?
(I'm assuming without the lanyard energy is cut from the ignition system but will the starter still crank?)
 
CZSteve said:
Compression test questions (for both a '97 GTI 717 & '98 GTX 787).
- What size socket for removing spark plugs?
- Do the plug wires need to be grounded if the safety lanyard is not engaged?
(I'm assuming without the lanyard energy is cut from the ignition system but will the starter still crank?)
Click to expand...

comp 150 150
a spark plug socket
ground the plugs, engage the lanyard, hold wot, start.
 
The plug wrench is 13/16".

I would stay away from a rental ski... unless it was cheap enough to cover a new engine. Remember... a rental shop is in Biz to make $$$$. So... why replace a ski if it's still able to make $$$$ ???? Basically... they maintain them very well... and they have deemed that 700 hrs is all they can get out of the engine. If they thought that they would run another year... they wouldn't spend the money to buy new skis.
 
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Dr Honda said:
The plug wrench is 13/16".

I would stay away from a rental ski... unless it was cheap enough to cover a new engine. Remember... a rental shop is in Biz to make $$$$. So... why replace a ski if it's still able to make $$$$ ???? Basically... they maintain them very well... and they have deemed that 700 hrs is all they can get out of the engine. If they thought that they would run another year... they wouldn't spend the money to buy new skis.
Click to expand...

well they kindof do have an engine built into the price, with a bit of haggling. standard engine from sbt is 1800, with shipping both ways call it 2k. a "normal hours" 2010 vx110 is worth around 5500-6000, no? if i were in the market for one at that price point, i'd be checking it over thoroughly, and probably wouldn't pay more than 3k for that ski. also, as long as the engine was maintained like it should be, i don't think the 4-strokes will go through top ends like the two strokes do, they've just got a much better oiling system. I'd want to see maintenance records and do a compression test still though.
 
Strizzo said:
..... i don't think the 4-strokes will go through top ends like the two strokes do, they've just got a much better oiling system. I'd want to see maintenance records and do a compression test still though.
Click to expand...

They don't... and the compression probably still very good.

The problem is.... these are high reving engines. And to do that... the moving parts have to be light. Knowing that... the problem lies in the valves. They have a tiny 5mm stem. What happens is they start to stretch... and eventually, they break... dropping parts into a running engine. At that point... the engine may not be rebuildable.


I just looked at the post, and that's not a bad price. (If they are in good shape other wise) I would consider one... but IMEDIATLY pop the head off, and replace all the valves. If you did that... it would probably go another 400 to 500 hrs. AND... since it's no longer a rental ski... that will normally take 5 to 10 years.


As far as the selling price... $5k to $6k would be right if it wasn't a rental.

For the $3500 price tag... does it come with a trailer?
 
OK - Looking for opinions now between a couple options:

I looked at the GTI last night; very clean exterior and engine compartment & straight trailer - He'll sell @ $1600.00.

I also stopped by this morning and looked at a matching pair of '97 GTX's.
- The GTX's were not as clean; some oil in the bottom or the engine compartment (not bad, just not as clean as GTI) and chipped paint on the cowling and one was missing a front trim / rub rail; trailer also straight.
- The owner of the 2ea GTX's had bought them from his brother who needed the money. He doesn't want to mess with taking out to a lake and @ $2500 I don't think he has to as someone will buy I would assume. The batteries are dead from sitting but he has no problem if I were to bring a battery and a compression tester to check the engine condition.
-Impellers on both didn't show any chips; tolerance appeared to be very tight on one wear ring and a small gap on the other - I'm pretty handy and changing out the wear ring seems pretty straight forward.

I'm leaning towards the 2ea GTX's w/ the 787 motor and better bank-for-buck for two; we had discussed getting two at some point. Originally planned on a $5k budget so we'll have room for parts / accessories as needed.
This year / style does not seem dated at all and don't mind saving money but don't want to throw away $ either...

If the compression checks out on the pair of GTX's???
Opinions?
Don't have a pic of the GTI but here are the GTX's
GTX pair.jpg

Thanks again,
Steve

EDIT: What possible concerns am I gambling on without a lake test ride?
Obviously the compression test should cover the main concern of engine health.
Pump operation? Any other gremlins besides the impeller & wear ring that would be a 'major' problem?
Carbs? If they need rebuilding I don't imagine that's to big of concern.
 
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Welll.......


For the price... if they are already on a double trailer... then it's a gamble I would take (if it's 2 single trailers, I'd pass)... assuming:

1) They will start without any starter fluid. (just a choke)

2) The compression is good.

3) The electronics check out.


At that point... a pump rebuild, or minor cleanup is easy.


Before bothering with a compression check... see if they start. Older Rotax 2-stokes have a nasty habit of leaking oil though the center seals. When that happens... the engine will basically be hydro-locked with an oil/fuel mix.

If they start/run... shut them off after 10~15 seconds... and then check the compression. Even if they don't have a real center seal issue... there can be extra oil in the engine... and starting it for a few seconds will purge that out.

Finally... DO NOT use a charger, or jump start the skis !!!! the MPEM (computer) is VERY sensitive, and they are know to burn out if you try it. So... go buy a new battery, and make sure it's charged. Then... put it in the ski. (don't use cables) Sometimes you get too much loss down the cables, and they won't crank. (don't use a jump box either)
 
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