What a bad day, advice needed please

[Rich1983]

Had one of those days where everything has been going wrong, heres the problems iv'e had today:

Put a new starter on one engine last week and it worked great, I only put it on hand tight to test etc and it was good with the engine starting great.
Today I pulled it off and put some grease on the spindles and the top part to seal it around the block then re-assembled it with everything tight then I press the start button, it clicks and struggles to turn the engine very slowly. Pulled it off again, stripped it and couldn't see anything out of place. Tested it while it wasn't bolted it and it engaged and spins great but again once it's bolted into the engine its barely turning the engine over. Any suggestions? Have I possibly killed it by using grease on it? or possibly a faulty starter?

Second problem/concern, Got both air boxes off as I was adjusting the throttle+choke cables to find that on one engine when I pull the throttle arm on the carb it sprays fuel into the manifold which Id expect is normal. But on the other engine if I pull the throttle arm theres no fuel being sprayed into the manifold!! Any suggestions on this?

And last but not least, I had one engine fired up briefly which has supposedly been recently rebuilt with all new internals. It start, cuts out on idle and there wasn't much smoke so turned it off immediately after about 5-10 seconds of spluttering and bogging.
When it was running it sounded very dry, as if the crank bearings were noisy and grainy type sound. Could this be a simple case of the crank bearings are completely shot?
Also is there a way I can check if the bearings and seals are ok without stripping the engine? The engine has been sitting for a good year before I bought the boat and this is the first time its been started since. I did put a few drops of oil down the plug hole and into the carb before starting it.
Iv'e checked the pump and it all seems to be working and set good. If I start the engine again and hold the pump lever on full to get maximum oil in, could this possible help the bearings and stop the noise?

 

[Waterluvr]

For your starter issue, leave it off the motor and pull the spark plugs and see if you can turn the pto over by hand that should indicate at least of there's an engine problem or something bound up in the pump causing the difficulty in turning it over. It should move by hand easily.

Sounds like your accelerator pump or nozzle is having an issue, the small brass nozzle in the carb has an inlet that's fed from a small hose from the pump body, those nozzles get clogged up pretty easily.

Just remove the carb from the boat and use some cleaner spray introduced from the inlet nipple until it flows freely from the nozzle. The manual has the procedure for testing the pump diaphragm to make sure it's working correctly. Also, there is a small restrictor jet in the supply line to the pump body, you can remove that and make sure fuel flows from both ends of that line to verify the restrictor isn't plugged up.

A healthy shot of aerosol fogging oil will get things all lubed up in the crankcase faster than anything else you can introduce in there.

 

[Rich1983]

The pto spins fine, I had the engine fired up using the starter from the other engine so the problem is somewhere in the starter. As I said it was brand new last week and it's only started playing up when I re-fitted it today after greasing it up etc
Can't see how it could fail that quick.

I'll be the carb pulled apart tomorrow and clean it all up. Strange this is the engine still started without the fuel spraying out.

I've looked for fogging oil but I can't find it anywhere in the uk. Is there any other name it goes by or can I use wd40 or anything else instead?

 

[Waterluvr]

Tohatsu outboard motors are widely sold in the UK, and they distribute their own labeled fogging oil there. An outboard motor dealer should offer it for sale with either Tohatsu or Nissan labeled packaging.

Your motor will start and idle fine without the accelerator pump working, it's main function is to transition the boat from the low to high side circuits in the carb when placed under load from rapid acceleration.

If your starter bench tests ok I'd be taking a hard look at all the cables and connections something has changed. If you have greased the contact surfaces of the cable connections that has created resistance to your path of ground and also a loss of volts and amperage from the starter solenoid.

 

[Rich1983]

That would explain why the engine started fine and I couldn't see how it could run without fuel. I'll give it a good clean tomorrow if the weathers good.

Managed to find some fogging oil online, i'll get some ordered up and give both engines a good coat and leave them stand for a day before I try restarting them again.

Cant see whats changed regarding the starter, all the earth and power cables were clean and once I used the starter from the other engine it fired straight away.
I'll double check and clean all the terminals tomorrow and clean the starter with a aerosol spray just in case the grease is causing it.

But on a plus side, I did manage to fit a new bilge fan which now works fine :thumbsup: so the day wasn't a total loss!

Any suggestions on how to drain a fuel tank? i'm planning the old pipe and suck job, if theres a easier way then please feel free to let me know

 

[Waterluvr]

Oh you're a brave soul to get a mouthful of gasoline! I use a sealed rotary transfer pump that's rated for gas, but the old pipe and suck works when it's all you have on hand to do the job.

Did you ever find that left side choke cable?

 

[Rich1983]

I'll have to get a transfer pump, one of the tools that's rarely used but it's a must.

Still no joy with a cable, think it'll have to be longer re routed one and possibly cut 1" off and re attach the cable end to get the 1.5" throw I need.

Why did I buy a project boat lol I hope this work and stress is all worth it when it's all running

 

[Waterluvr]

Hang in there with it, sounds like you and a wrench get along pretty well. You didn't just buy a project boat, you bought a twin engine project boat! :cheers:

There's got to be a generic replacement choke cable out there somewhere that will work, I have used quite a few of these over the years for various projects as the center core is the same for the whole length of the cable the extra cable and sheath can just be trimmed away.

http://www.amazon.com/JEGS-Performa...8744977&sr=8-1&keywords=universal+choke+cable

 

[Rich1983]

I try my best, things are always daunting at first but once you've done something and understand how things work then it's not as bad as you originally thought. It's great to be able to join forums such as this one and get help/advice from people who share the same interests which is a huge help :thumbsup:

My original plan was to buy a running boat but over here their pretty rare and hard to find. Once I seen the Sportster Lt I thought "how hard can it be" only needs a little tidying up and some work on the motors.
If only I'd realised how awkward it would be to remove starter motors, fit bilge fans, and cleaning the engine bay with the motors in is a cruel job! I've had my entire body twisted and upside down in the engine bay for hours.
Was hoping to get the boat running so I could use it a few times before winter sets in. Unfortunately due to trying to source parts and waiting for bits to get delivered etc I don't think I'll be on the water this year but I'll live in hope.

I've emailed every seadoo part supplier I could find on google and nobody has one in stock and can't even get one in. SBT said if I send them my old cable they'll replicate it for me. Great, only problem is the boat didn't come with the cable so that idea is out of the window.
I do know a friend of a friend who works in a cable factory, he's going to take my old Rh cable (short one) into work and see if he can lengthen it and make it fit the Lh engine. If that plan fails it'll have to be the amazon universal cable as the next plan.

 

[grinditout]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221530571381?item=221530571381&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

 

[Rich1983]

Managed to get the blocked carb stripped today, Cleaned it all up and greases all the sliders etc, seems to be working good on the bench. Just need to bolt it back on the motor now and see if the accelerator pump issue is sorted. I did find a block in there and also the arm on the diaphragm was adjusted so that it was holding the pusher half way in and it looked like it was unable to squeeze any fuel through the pipe so that screw has been re-adjusted so it gets a full cycle now.
The bolts on the carb were a absolute horror to get off, The salt water just seizes everything up which had me very close to throwing the carb out of the workshop window!

Other issue i've come across on the other motor which didn't sound right was that: If I lift the pto (shafts disconnected) I can physically life the pto a fraction and feel play in it. Looks like the bearings must be ruined in there so looks like the motor will be coming out for a rebuild which was my worst scenario.

Had a look on SBT at their crate motors which are very good value for money, as they require my current motor and i'm in the Uk it'll cost a fortune to ship mine over plus import taxes etc on the new one. Not sure if I should either rebuild mine with a new crank, pistons, possibly liners etc or if I should bite the bullet and get one already built.

 

[grinditout]

Carb rebuilds even on like new, I use a impact driver and a propane torch < very carefully.

It is just my pinion, but I would not run that engine , it will end up doing more damage, again that Is just an opinion.

No one in the UK rebuilds theses engines , they are Austrian, Rotax.

 

[Rich1983]

I won't be running it again after seeing that. Have to pull it out of the boat and pull it apart to assess the damage. The engine has all new gaskets fitted and was supposedly fully rebuilt. Be interesting to see the inside of it.
Been looking at hotrod cranks and wiseco piston kits on eBay so might go down that route and do it myself.

With a new crank, piston kit, rotary brass gear and gasket sets I'll be looking around £600 so not that bad.

 

[Waterluvr]

Rich look up the JetWorks in Kent if your needing help or parts for that engine they have a full line BRP engine rebuilding shop and they ship inside the UK (44) 1227 771 831

 

[Rich1983]

Rich look up the JetWorks in Kent if your needing help or parts for that engine they have a full line BRP engine rebuilding shop and they ship inside the UK (44) 1227 771 831

I actually rang them guys when I was looking inito buying boat for advice and totally forgot they existed.
Also came across a ski shop less than a mile from my house who specialises in seadoo's, pretty nice guy as well. Went down a few days ago for a look around. He had cranks, pistons, brass gears all in stock but the prices are cruel to get them off the shelf. The cranks were £500 which works out around $900. That's why I'm contemplating getting the bits from the states and building the engine myself. It'll work out half the price but I'll have to wait for the parts and deal with the import vat nonsense.
I'll give the jetworks a ring Tuesday as it's bank holiday tomorrow, and see what they can offer regarding a recondition engine and also what parts they stock.

 

[grinditout]

Send the jugs to fullbore.

 

[Rich1983]

Managed to pull the engine out today and had some time to start stripping it. Once it was out and on the bench I quickly realised that the bottom end was shot due to the noise from just turning the crank. Pulled the head and cylinders off and this is what I found!




Going to get the bottom end stripped this week and get all the cases sand blasted and re pained nice and tidy, then going to rebuilt it with a SBT crank, pistons and complete new rotary shaft assembly. Need to get new liners as the current ones are scored. Anyone ever changed the liners before? are they easy enough to push in/out?

Also i'm looking at a piston kit which comes with a full top end gasket set from SBT which is better value than buying them separate, Can anyone tell me what other gaskets and seals i'll to buy separate to complete the rebuild?
Im assuming its only the carb and manifold gaskets and the crank outer seals. Anything else i'm missing? Was going to buy a full engine gasket set but its a better deal to pay extra for the pistons and get the top end kit with them then buy the rest separate.

 

[Waterluvr]

Rich if you order their PN#48-105 that is a complete gasket/seal kit for the whole engine and you can buy two #47-105 piston and ring sets and save some money that way versus the top end kit.

Get those new liners good and cold and they will press right in for you if you heat the cylinder for half an hour, 350*f for 45 minutes to get the old ones out (Use welder's gloves to get hold of them)

 

[grinditout]

Again it is none of my business , but I would suck it up and send it to someone that does it every day.

Dan @ Fullbore
Jeremy @ SBT

I have spoke at length to Dan about installing sleeves he said it is not as easy as it sounds , I believe they mill the old one out and then heat it up and drop the new one in , he said you had a matter of seconds to get the clocking correct then you still have to port match it and hoe it to the new piston.

Again I know nothing about it and could not find any real reference up and beyond a conversation.
I can hardly see the benefit vs. risk , put it on someone else's back.

 

[grinditout]

I really thought SBT had some sort of international program , it would be worth a call.

 

[Rich1983]

I've sent a few emails to SBT and their pretty helpful with posting parts and small things. But when it comes to posting my engine out there then shipping a new one over here the postage gets very expensive then there's the 20% import tax to deal with.
I'd love to buy one of their premium engines and just bolt it straight in, unfortunately it's just well out if budget with the other fees on top to pay.

I've grown up racing moto x bikes and we've always done the engine work our selfs so I'm confident on the building side, just things like the sleeves I'll have to get don eels wear somehow.
I work for a big engineering company so hopefully I'll be able to get one of the toolmakers in work to press them out if they don't require too much effort.

 

[grinditout]

I really do not think it is press in , the way he described it to me is dropped in.
But you will need to do your own research.

 

[Rich1983]

Im going to call down my local ski shop tomorrow and see if he's got any used barrels in stock or if he can offer any advice before I order the liners.

I know SBT do a great deal on exchange barrels but again its the shipping and tax costs i'm not sure about, I don't know if they'd do them on exchange to the Uk and unfortunately I cant just pick the phone up and ask them as i'm on the opposite side of the world so I got to send email after email and it takes days to get an answer where as it would take 5min over the phone.

 

[grinditout]

"Jeremy Cashman" <jeremy@shopsbt.com>

 

[grinditout]

That should be faster, I believe he is the boss there.