uscg approved fuel line question

[mcarp6]

Des anybody on this site know a decent online place to order USCG Approved line? This is for my winter seadoo project, I previously used USCG line for a local dealer in Nj, but the price was rediculous. Typical Ft wise is about 22ft for my seadoo gts. Could anybody suggest a good site where I can order this for a decent price?:thumbsup:

 

[Dr Honda]

Don't use it. All the USCG hose sucks !!! I'm not sure what the deal is with it... but I just changed the hoses on a buddies boat because of melted hoses, and clogged carbs... and they just had it done at a marina 4 or 5 years ago.

Go to your local auto parts store, and buy regular, rubber automotive hose.

 

[mcarp6]

Don't use it. All the USCG hose sucks !!! I'm not sure what the deal is with it... but I just changed the hoses on a buddies boat because of melted hoses, and clogged carbs... and they just had it done at a marina 4 or 5 years ago.

Go to your local auto parts store, and buy regular, rubber automotive hose.

Hmm that's good to know, I've already done some fuel line replacements on Seadoos however,I never heard of that. My most recent replacement was on my own waverunner. I used about 8-10 feet of USCG just for the Carb lines and the rest I used GATES automotive line. They say that's next to best, and it has worked well for me so for. I looked into the GATES company and they offer a specific Marine fuel line that I might give a shot.

 

[Dr Honda]

I looked into the GATES company and they offer a specific Marine fuel line that I might give a shot.

Why?? it's just going to be overpriced, and cause you problems in a few years.

In all my years of playing with PWC and boats... I've never been hassled by using regular automotive hose.

The issue with the USCG hose is that it's more flame resistant than automotive hose. BUT... that internal tube/jacket/liner decays with our newer fuels. Basically... the alcohol will dissolve it... and it goes into the carbs. But, since companies like Gates, and Tempo have to pay big $$$$ to get the USCG rating... they won't re-engineer the hose. If they did... they would have to pay to have it re-certified.



SO..... only use USCG hose if you are buying "Pure" fuel from a marina. If you are using regular "Pump" fuel... it has alcohol... and it doesn't play nice with USCG hose.

 

[mcarp6]

Why?? it's just going to be overpriced, and cause you problems in a few years.

In all my years of playing with PWC and boats... I've never been hassled by using regular automotive hose.

The issue with the USCG hose is that it's more flame resistant than automotive hose. BUT... that internal tube/jacket/liner decays with our newer fuels. Basically... the alcohol will dissolve it... and it goes into the carbs. But, since companies like Gates, and Tempo have to pay big $$$$ to get the USCG rating... they won't re-engineer the hose. If they did... they would have to pay to have it re-certified.



SO..... only use USCG hose if you are buying "Pure" fuel from a marina. If you are using regular "Pump" fuel... it has alcohol... and it doesn't play nice with USCG hose.

That's great insight !! I was aware of the problem with dissolving the fuel lines, but was unaware that the pump from the marina was different than the pump at your local station. Thanks for filling me in though. I will keep that in mind beause I am starting a winter project on my waverunner and ill just you the Gates Automotive line that I used with my other waverunner.

 

[lamajama]

This was the first year of re-fueling while on the water for me (as opposed to slugging gas cans down to the beach...).

I was under the impression that while the Marina's we went to had premium fuel it was the same as pump premium option at the
lake I go to - the lake's local pump fuel was just marked with a dye so you could be caught if they checked your tank. You were free
to fill gas cans etc though with it. Not sure if this kind of crap (dye marking) occurs in the US. I suspect not. Premium pump fuel elsewhere is not marked - just the ones near the lake.

 

[Dr Honda]

A lot of marinas will have fuel without alcohol in it. BUT... not all of them. AND... since it's fuel for "Off highway use"... they don't have to put that little sticker on the pump that says... "May contain up to 10% alcohol." If it matters to you... you will have to ask the station owner.

This has been a debate here for a while. But my personal feelings are... we have to live with the crappy fuel, so just set-up, and tune your toys to run with it.

 

[Dugout]

Dr. did you use the correct USCG rated fuel line? Asking because it should be marked with a note can be used with alcohol on the jacket of the fuel line.

 

[Dr Honda]

Nope.

I use automotive fuelinjection hose. Regular "Rubber" (Viton) fuel hose is alcohol stable.

And... like I was saying... I've never had a safety inspection done where the USCGA person told me it wasn't legal. Because of that... why pay the price for USCG hose that still isn't stable with our new fuels?


I'm not really debating this. You guys can use whatever you want. All I can do is give you my opinion based on +20 years experience. If you feel safer with putting in new Tempo hoses... then spend the $3 per foot, and do it. But I can tell you this... if one of my skis has a fire... I'm not going to be on it long enough to get to the fire extinguisher. Not to mention... most skis aren't stable enough in a "Panic" situation to stand up... get the extinguisher... pull the seat off... and blast the engine compartment. I'm going to jump off, get myself a safe distance away... and watch it burn. In this case... the extra 30 seconds the USCG hoses will get you is a moot point.



With that said....I'm under the seat/deck lid of my toys all the time. So a fire is a non issue anyway.

 

[RodInEscondido]

Doc is correct in that the USCG rating on fuel line is just to give a little more time in case of a fire in the engine room to either make the stupid decision to attempt to fight a gasoline fire on a boat or the smart decision to abandon ship. A lot of the time a portion of the boat will stay afloat after it burns to the waterline to allow you to hang on to something.

I personally am experimenting with using clear fuel line as is used on experimental aircraft, but cannot make a conclusion or recommendation on that yet. My decision on this was fueled (no pun intended) by seeing a number of threads indicating problems with air getting into the fuel lines which can happen any place there is even a slight difference in pressure (fuel selector, fuel pump) and I would like to see the bubbles. I also see several threads here giving thumbs-down on clear fuel lines. Of course, my experiments will include very frequent inspections. As an aside, I will probably use clear lines for the cooling portion also so I can see stuff flowing (or not flowing).

Regarding the USCG regs and boat inspections ... I only have older skis, but all of them have a sticker indicating the ski is exempt from USCG fuel system regulations (this sticker also shows the model number of the ski):


Rod

 

[Dugout]

When I've replaced fuel lines on my ski(s) or boat(s) I use CG approved for use with alcohol. Here's the description " fire-retardant marine fuel hose with high-nitrile tube handles alcohol-enhanced gasolines. USCG and NMMA approved for use with gasoline".

Dr. I disagree with your comment "SO..... only use USCG hose if you are buying "Pure" fuel from a marina. If you are using regular "Pump" fuel... it has alcohol... and it doesn't play nice with USCG hose." Hose manufacturers would have a problem with our sue happy society if their product doesn't meet the standards they are to be tested to. I'll stick with USCG rated fuel line. As you've said, this is my opinion.

 

[Dr Honda]

You dissagree with me !!!!!!!!! :ban:



LOL :biggrinjester:


Sorry.... I couldn't resist.


That's fine. Have an opinion, and stick with it, and defend it !!

Anyway... It has it's place... but not everyone can easily get USCG hose that is compatible with alcohol. Where I'm at... there is only one boat shop around... and it's 20 miles away. There are a few Marinas around Pitt... but they are all overpriced. I'm simply offering a solution that is easy to get... and is known to be 100% compatible. (and is cheaper)

 

[racerxxx]

The old tempo lines are junk for sure. Tempo makes fuel line that is safe with current fuels and I read it comes with a 3 year warranty(on their website somewhere). Not sure which way I'm going on my XP project yet.

J1527 rated fuel line available on Ebay for as low as $1.50 per foot for 1/4"



http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEMPO-498FL...?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true#ht_3746wt_1186


Premium quality fire retardant marine fuel hose designed to handle alcohol enhanced gasoline.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-MPI...?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true#ht_3106wt_1186

 

[Guest_User]

the West marine has a very good assortment of USCG Type A1 and B1 fuel hose... The gray looking hose they have strictly says it is for use for OUTBOARDS. The dual wall rubber hose is listed for inboards... as far as I can tell, all the boxes read that they are comatible with ethanol fuels...

Premium fire-retardant marine fuel hose with high-nitrile tube handles alcohol-enhanced gasolines. USCG- and NMMA-approved for use with gasoline and diesel. Reinforced with two layers of high-strength synthetic fabric. Superior kink resistance and durability. Sold by the foot.

Select TYPE 1 Low Permeation Feed/Vent Hose or TYPE 2 Vent/Fill Hose.

Fuel Type: Gasoline or diesel
Rating: Feed/vent or vent/fill hose
Approvals: SAE J1527 Type A1 & A2
Construction: Reinforced hose w/ two layers of high strength fabric
Burst Strength: See model description
Temperature Range: –5° to 180°
Maximum Continuous Length: See each model description for maximum available length

here is the grey hose:

Silverado 3000 Outboard Fuel Line is resistant to Ethanol blend fuels and is CARB-compliant for small engine use. This EPA-compliant outboard fuel line has a thermoplastic construction that resists UV and the barrier layer prevents permeation. The gray color of the hose helps prevent vapor lock. This hose is primarily used for above-deck primer bulb assemblies.

Sold by the foot, or 10' length.

Application: Fuel feed outboard
Flexibility: Can be bent into gradual radius
Warranty: Lifetime against defects

*This is the maximum continuous length available

 

[Guest_User]

I was using TYGON fuel/oil hose on the boat just between the remote fuel pumps and the carbs. after 22 hours of use for the season although it remained pliable, it became discolored from premixed fuel. I also used very good military spec metal tang zip ties from McMaster and found that I could still spin the hose or move them on the barbs after 22 hours and make the fuel dribble...

I`ll be switching up to a different hose or even with a jetski fuel hose type but using oeitker clamps...

 

[Dugout]

You dissagree with me !!!!!!!!! :ban:
LOL :biggrinjester:
Sorry.... I couldn't resist.
That's fine. Have an opinion, and stick with it, and defend it !!

Dr. at least we can agree to disagree. :thumbsup: I wanted to make a point that there is USCG approved fuel line available that is compatible with fuels containing alcohol. As in your case it may not be readily available at a local store. I have a number of marinas and marine supply stores within a short distance of me so I have easy access to this type of hose. Yes the hose costs more than what you get at the local parts store but I'll pay a little more, $2/ft more? In the end is saving $40 worth it? Not to me. We all spend that or more when we fill up the tank or buy oil for the skis. If $40 is going to break the bank then maybe owning a ski is not in the cards for that person. To me this comes down to doing things the best you can and safe.

 

[Strizzo]

I always thought the way Yamaha did it on the old 91 Vxr was smart, the extinguisher was strapped to the bottom of the seat, so if you have a fire, pull the seat and toss it, or jump off with it, then you are away from the burning craft where you can get the extinguisher out and try to fight the fire. You aren't going to put out a fire, and then ride back to the dock, you'd be lucky to have a ski that still floats.

 

[Dugout]

Getting off topic but:
When I teach a safe boating class I suggest that the fire extinguisher on your ski is for a possible fire on your buddies ski. Why? If you have a fire where is the fire most likely to be? Under the seat where the engine and fuel is located. When you remove the seat to get to any fire extinguisher or to the fire you're adding oxygen to the fire. So what should a ski have? A fire port where you can stick the fire extinguisher nozzle in to try an extinguish the fire.

I definitely agree with "Dr." about getting away from the ski and letting it burn. The ski can be replaced, you can't be replaced.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yamaha was the only company to do it right. I had a 2000 XL760 and the extinguisher was on the bottom of the seat also. As far as I know... they did that up to the 4-stroke skis. (it may still be there, I just haven't played with the new Yamaha's) Finally... with it under the seat... eventually the container will melt, and so will the plastic top of the extinguisher. So... when it ruptures... it may put out the fire.


Polaris was the WORST ! They put it in a loose container, that had rubber straps (like Yamaha) But they put it in the nose of the front storage compartment. On my Genesis... I can't even reach it from the seat, or while on the ski. AND... if I was in the water... there is NO WAY I could get to it. AND... the rubber straps are so tight... that there is no way you are getting the container out in a panic. AND... I'm not sure you could take off the cap with it strapped in. STUPID ! STUPID ! STUPID ! STUPID !

Seadoo isn't too bad. It's right at your finger tips when you open the front compartment.

 

[Britrick]

So the problem with these hoses is caused by alcohol in your fuel , does anybody know if this practice is just in the states or do they mix it worldwide ? I have never heard of alcohol mixed in the petrol here in England but then all my cars are diesel , yes we have to have diesel cars here , with petrol at £7 ish per gal !
Are there any automatic extinguisher systems available at reasonable cost for pwc's ? Had a auto system on a boat years back , always seemed like a good idea to me , jump overboard and swim for it while it puts it's self out !