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Shaft and impeller spin freely

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Fallsguy

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1998 Challenger 1800 with twin 787's

So I finally got my carb situation solved went out running just great for about five minutes. I put the boat in reverse and reved it up a bit and whammmm started hearing a strange noise. Immediately shut it down and limped back to the ramp on the other engine.

Back on land I get under the boat and by hand easily I can spin the impeller and the shaft spins too. I hear a strange rattling noise like the teeth on a bearing are stripped.... there was no propulsion on the water after the "incident"

I know I'm going to be told to pull it apart but anyone have any initial thoughts on what i've done. I've been having a lot of headaches with this thing for the past two weeks its been in the shop. Your suggestions are appreciated.
 
I suspect the splines on the drive shaft are stripped, you'll need to pull the pump and remove the drive shaft and take a look, it also could be the splines in the PTO.

Lou
 
I agree with Lou, but what was it in the shop for? did they do anything with alignment? usually when the splines go it is bc of severe rust/corrosion and the right opportunity to apply power to tear them off, or the engine mounts are shot, and or the engine is to far forward for the correct depth of spline engagement. depending on what work was done at the dealer or iof the shaft was removed, is there a shaft bumper in place in the front? these can wear and get flat and create more "play" in the shaft resulting in a stripped spline...

and yes, you will have to remove the pump and look at the impeller splines and the end of the drive shaft, if that looks in good shape then proceed to the PTO.
 
They rebuilt my carbs and stuck in a new shifter cable so I doubt it's anything they did. Hey it's an older boat ill guess that was my issue. These splines... Are they replaceable??
 
Thanks everyone. Since I'm not so great with a wrench I'm gonna take it to my dealer. Still learning ill try my hand at some of my own handy work in the off season but for now the best chance for me to be on the water is to have my dealer fix her up for now.

Thanks again you guys are brilliant with these things!
 
Thanks everyone. Since I'm not so great with a wrench I'm gonna take it to my dealer. Still learning ill try my hand at some of my own handy work in the off season but for now the best chance for me to be on the water is to have my dealer fix her up for now.

Thanks again you guys are brilliant with these things!

I hope you have a great dealer. With patience and the shop manual, along with this board, i KNOW you can have the boat running by next weekend if you pull the pump today and order parts on Tuesday.

The satisfaction of a job well done and being empowered to fix your boat when it breaks is an great added bonus.

Check out youtube. Pulling the pump is a 14 fastener job. 1 bolt for steering cable, 1 for FNR cable. 8 for gates and 4 nuts for the pump. If you hook up your electric drill, you won't even have to turn many of the bolts by hand...

Good Luck!!!
 
Thanks everyone. Since I'm not so great with a wrench I'm gonna take it to my dealer. Still learning ill try my hand at some of my own handy work in the off season but for now the best chance for me to be on the water is to have my dealer fix her up for now.

Thanks again you guys are brilliant with these things!

No way is the dealer going to stop and work on your old boat mid season.
It is very doable to remove some linkages for the reverse buckets to get to the 4 bolts on ea pump.

Then is see whats going on in the PTO if pump and drive shaft looks okay.........
 
Guys, the OP is being truthful with his confidence and mechanical skills for this watercraft. I wish more people would be that way instead of trying to repair something they know nothing about and create even more issues. If the OP is comfortable with taking it to the dealer "now" and learning "How to" repair at his leisure then so be it.
I applaud the OP for his decision instead of coming back here and saying "ought ooooooo!!!" this broke and now what???

there is enough of those types of threads here now bc people don`t realize they shouldnt look under the hood or even go near a wrench when it comes to watercraft! if your not sure, then leave it to a pro, and that can be debatable as well... for another topic...

OP good luck, and let us know what the dealer finds! hope he gets you underway before the summer is over, as it is the busiest time of year...
 
Amen to that... But like he said he's just starting out working on it... I doubt he has an engine alignment tool and other things needed....that floating ring would give hime trouble if its corroted on...but dont get me wrong fallsguy it is very easy to do.... just gotta jump on in... .if I was a rookie I would just have the dealer do it to save the season...but like they just said you gotta learn to start working on your boat unless your a millionaire....
 
Guys, the OP is being truthful with his confidence and mechanical skills for this watercraft. I wish more people would be that way instead of trying to repair something they know nothing about and create even more issues. If the OP is comfortable with taking it to the dealer "now" and learning "How to" repair at his leisure then so be it.
I applaud the OP for his decision instead of coming back here and saying "ought ooooooo!!!" this broke and now what???

there is enough of those types of threads here now bc people don`t realize they shouldnt look under the hood or even go near a wrench when it comes to watercraft! if your not sure, then leave it to a pro, and that can be debatable as well... for another topic...

OP good luck, and let us know what the dealer finds! hope he gets you underway before the summer is over, as it is the busiest time of year...

Amen to that... But like he said he's just starting out working on it... I doubt he has an engine alignment tool and other things needed....that floating ring would give hime trouble if its corroted on...but dont get me wrong fallsguy it is very easy to do.... just gotta jump on in... .if I was a rookie I would just have the dealer do it to save the season...but like they just said you gotta learn to start working on your boat unless your a millionaire....

Very good points Pale but some things can be done by anyone.
If its a matter of removing bolts or screws and keeping track of where it came from I doubt anything catastrophic would happen.
Unless you have seized rusted broken bolts that even mechanic is going to break himself and still charge you labor.

Once the removing of nuts and bolts is done and access to parts in question, he can stop and take it to someone or continue w/basic garage tools.
Even if I had to take 787 engine out its 4 bolts and a couple of cables. Plus cost of hoist.
That will save at least 4+ hrs off his bill. Then pay someone to put it all back together in 2hrs with new parts and warranty.......

I have a saying that "I can't make it any worse if it's already broken". Let me try first and if I can do it then why not. Otherwise I'll pay the 85+ hr shop rate to fix it (Hopefully).

I just removed my ski engine in a 4stroke. Never had a clue it was that easy until I got online and with confidence from forum members I took a shot at it. I had payed 600 less than 3 months ago to do motor mounts. I was not paying him again to reseal $20 midplate that is leaking water now.

OP everyone is starts off not knowing but if your going to keep boat, start working on it now and don't trust mechanic is going to fix it. We'll fix it first and for less and in a shorter amount of time.
Try posting for help in Regional Section.......
 
Very good points Pale but some things can be done by anyone.

.

I have to respectfully disagree. absolutely no disrespect to the OP, but in regards to "anyone", some anyone still don`t grasp the theory or the simple complications of these jet boats or ski`s... I`ve seen things with my own 2 eye`s. I could have made a lot of money if I continued to work on others peoples mistakes for the last 8 years...

and I have dealt with "text book" mechanics, for instance> remove oil pan, ok, but you need to know first how to proceed in order to "remove oil pan", anyway, yes with a little knowledge and slow progress "most" can get it done...
I will add tho, some have it and some do not, it`s human nature, just like those that repair computers, some can and some can not...

regardless a good tip is to also take pictures before disassembly for references later on if one gets choked up...
 
I have to respectfully disagree. absolutely no disrespect to the OP, but in regards to "anyone", some anyone still don`t grasp the theory or the simple complications of these jet boats or ski`s... I`ve seen things with my own 2 eye`s. I could have made a lot of money if I continued to work on others peoples mistakes for the last 8 years...

and I have dealt with "text book" mechanics, for instance> remove oil pan, ok, but you need to know first how to proceed in order to "remove oil pan", anyway, yes with a little knowledge and slow progress "most" can get it done...
I will add tho, some have it and some do not, it`s human nature, just like those that repair computers, some can and some can not...

regardless a good tip is to also take pictures before disassembly for references later on if one gets choked up...

I hear what your saying and know where your coming from.
Thats me and electricity
:ack:

I still like to try first. Who knows, I may learn something new.........

Either way, take pictures like Pale said. That does come in handy in piecing it back together.
A manual is a must too.
Also put bolts where they go so there are less parts baggies or bins.
 
Hummmm well I'm surprised by the fact everyone thinks a dealer is too busy to look at a boat.... Wait isn't that their job? I'm not asking them to volunteer I was planning on paying them. Dealer said they would have me done by next weekend.

With that in mind so I don't get a rep as a pussy I figure I can take the pump off and see what's up. I think if I don't the lack of respect may earn zero responses to my next problem. Before I do that I have a question

When I get under the boat and spin the impeller I hear a rattle that sounds like its almost directly above the impeller no where near the pump. Do I more likely have an issues at the pto?

I want to learn about my boat and enjoy working with my hands but one other thing to consider is this and I'm not meaning to sound like a jerk but if I take time away from my business I lose because I earn more money then the mechanic. But as u say knowledge is power and pride is earned! I'm going to try. Thanks for the encouragement... And warnings!
 
Hummmm well I'm surprised by the fact everyone thinks a dealer is too busy to look at a boat.... Wait isn't that their job? I'm not asking them to volunteer I was planning on paying them. Dealer said they would have me done by next weekend.

With that in mind so I don't get a rep as a pussy I figure I can take the pump off and see what's up. I think if I don't the lack of respect may earn zero responses to my next problem. Before I do that I have a question

When I get under the boat and spin the impeller I hear a rattle that sounds like its almost directly above the impeller no where near the pump. Do I more likely have an issues at the pto?

I want to learn about my boat and enjoy working with my hands but one other thing to consider is this and I'm not meaning to sound like a jerk but if I take time away from my business I lose because I earn more money then the mechanic. But as u say knowledge is power and pride is earned! I'm going to try. Thanks for the encouragement... And warnings!

with that said^^^
download a shop manual.
http://www.sea-doo.net/SHOPMANUALS/JETBOATS/1998-1999/JBOAT_A/1998/LMR98V1A.PDF
and supplement:
http://www.sea-doo.net/SHOPMANUALS/JETBOATS/1998-1999/JBOAT_A/1998/S_LMR98A.PDF


the torque specs alone will help prevent you from gorilla tightening any fasteners that aren`t meant to be gorilla tight.
BTW which pump is giving you the noise? Port or Starboard? if it is the port engine, then remove the 2 small bolts that hold the silver tube connecting the reverse buckets together (so they act in unison) on the right side of the tube. you will mostly likely move the shift lever for access to those small bolts/nuts, I think they are 7mm wrench...

them remove the steering rod that connects the 2 steering nozzles together completely. I believe these are 11mm nuts.
Now if it is the Port pump, just remove the 4 17mm nuts washers and lock washers, remove zip tie from the speedometer sensor wire where it attaches to the pump housing, move that out of the way and pull the pump directly towards you and off the studs and drive shaft.

if it is the Starboard pump, you`ll need to remove those same reverse gate silver Tube bolts as described above, remove the nut that attaches the steering cable adapter to the steering nozzle, be careful, there is a plastic bushing and washers that are oriented one way when disassembling, remove the 10mm nut on the 6mm bolt that holds the shift cable to the actuator on the reverse bucket, then slide out that 6mm bolt and washers, remove steering rod that connects the 2 nozzles as mentioned before, and remove the 4 17mm nuts washers, lock washers from that pump and after making sure the steering cable and shift cable are able to slide out freely, pull the pump towards you as an assembly and place on the ground or bench...

you will see a neoprene/rubber washer about the size of a nickel either it will be manilla or black and this is the seal for the cooling water passage between the pump housing and transom shoe...

after you pulled the defective side off, look into the impeller where the drive shaft is inserted, examine the splines in the impeller and the drive shaft, if they look good, continue on to removing the drive shaft from the pto flywheel, that is another procedure...

BTW, no one is thinking or calling you a puss. I simply admired your honesty wether you can do the work or not.
From the horror stories on these forums, MOST dealers will not work on older 2 stroke boats for many reasons, 1 they are time consuming and can make a fast buck on the newer boats, 2 some techs just aren`t into these 2 strokers and hate them with a passion, etc etc, and it is the busiest time of year, I`ve had experience with my own craft being held up for an entire season waiting on warranty work, so there are many opinions, reasons, and facts, why we say the things we do...

Good Luck! hope you learn something and the dealer takes care of you without to much out of pocket pain...:cheers:
 
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Thanks. I really appreciate the time you took to provide so much detail. I'm heading to my shop to give it a whirl now. I'm sure ill be posting soon. Btw it's the port engine
 
Nothing wrong with using the dealer. In summer time they are often booked to where it came easily be a month before they get to your boat/ski.

Anything you can or are willing to do your self will save you time, money, and gain you knowledge.

So,,, if you are willing to learn, this is a great opportunity to do so. The money savings alone will be in the HUNDREDS,,,
 
Ok so wtf I took off the pump. Pulled on the shaft a bit it slipped in and suddenly seems to be seated properly again. I ran the engine and it appears to be running fine. How is this possible???
 
Ok so wtf I took off the pump. Pulled on the shaft a bit it slipped in and suddenly seems to be seated properly again. I ran the engine and it appears to be running fine. How is this possible???

what does the splines look like??? were they ok on the impeller end???

the bumpers on the driveshaft alone could cause more "play" if they are mushed!!!, the PTO splines are long as is the impeller BC the seadoo drive shafts FLOAT, so they can moved forward/rearward a given amount, but to much movement and strip!!! or disengagement!!!

did you download the manuals from the links I posted for you?
 
Ok I'm in the wTer now same problem. Somehow between my shop and the lake the driveshaft has become disengaged. Thoughts? I do have the shop manual. Thanks!
 
The spines were good. Appears to slip out pto side?? I'm not sure where to find the pto. Is it the box towards the rear of the engine? How does one adjust the amount of float? When I pulled the shaft from the pump side the spines seem to lick back in but clearly the play u mentioned let it slip back out before I hit the water
 
The spines were good. Appears to slip out pto side?? I'm not sure where to find the pto. Is it the box towards the rear of the engine? How does one adjust the amount of float? When I pulled the shaft from the pump side the spines seem to lick back in but clearly the play u mentioned let it slip back out before I hit the water

yes, you will have a determined amount of float. Look at this pic, see the driveshaft bumpers? was there one on the end of the driveshaft?

to view the other end of the driveshaft is a little more difficult. replace the pump, climb in the hatch and remove the cover over the drive shaft where it inserts into the PTO. Your coil tower will be sitting on top, you have a 98, same as ours. after moving that out of the way push the floating ring rearward to unveil the C clip under the floating ring, remove the clip, pull the floating ring forwards towards the bow of the boat and almost up to the rubber boot on the PTO past the C clip groove. unlock the stainless Oetiker clamp on the small end of the PTO boot, leave it over the boot, don`t opoen it up or destroy it trying to get it off the driveshaft while the shaft is still in place, you`ll see what I mean...

remove jet pump, reach in and grab the driveshaft and pull rearward to remove from the boat. your floating ring will drop down into the hull, so place a towel under the driveshaft to catch the floating ring.

view both ends carefully to see if the bumpers are mis-shaped or any damage to the splines...

My thought are you are either missing the bumpers, the engine is misaligned due to old engine mounts or maybe previous work along it`s lifetime,

at this point I have to ask if you are sure of the drive shaft slippage and not confusing this with cavitation?

ok, I recommend that you get familiar with the shop manual for this procedure, and have a close look at the build thread of our boat in my sig/link for illustrations on this exact scenario. I lost a driveshaft due to the engine being to far forward and old/worn engine mounts...

good luck...:cheers:
 
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Oh boy.... I didn't understand most of that. I'm going to review what u said a bit but most certainly it's not cavitation because I literally can free spin the impeller. This motor has been rebuilt and I believe the mounts are newer. Ok. I just reread ur post. Wow ok the pto is where I thought. Do I have to remove the coil from it first?
 
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Oh boy.... I didn't understand most of that. I'm going to review what u said a bit but most certainly it's not cavitation because I literally can free spin the impeller. This motor has been rebuilt and I believe the mounts are newer. Ok. I just reread ur post. Wow ok the pto is where I thought. Do I have to remove the coul from it first?
ok, just checking...
your saying that you can reach in the grate area, grab the driveshaft and turn it freely? or are you just turning the impeller freely? either way, all that has to be checked out...

yes the cover and coil box needs to be removed and put out of the way, there are 2 wing nuts attaching that stainless pto cover to the engine rear mount bracket.

here are a few pics:

the ROUND grey thing is the PTO flywheel, the driveshaft goes in the center of that.
the next pic is an assembled drive shaft with PTO boot, oetiker clamps, floating ring/clip/and carbon seal/boot.
next is my stripped drive shaft, and after that the impeller stripped splines...

ours blew out under power and killed the splines...

rebuilt engine!!! could be the engine depth was not set correctly allowing to much "floating"...
 
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