"Refresh" WAS the idea

[97explorer717]

I think I already know the answer but I'm going to ask anyway. The plan was originally to disassemble, clean, rering and reassemble. Purchased current engine running from wrecked ski. Actually purchased from a repair shop. Owner told me he wouldn't do anything but put it in and run it. Guy had run his ski into a bridge. When I got it home I started thinking about where somebody had started to sandblast it to paint. Really started worrying about the fact that they sandblast it around the rotary bath feed with no plug. As suspected when I cracked the bottom half off the case guess what was in there. That's a rhetorical question. So it's been sitting all winter and I thought it's time to get on it. Cylinders are stock and walls are not bad in the jugs. BUT I'm concerned about the crank of course. When I spin the bearings, best I can describe it as it's like a roller skate wheel. So is this to be expected on a used motor? I already know the response to replace it completely rebuild it and that puts me back to where I was with the previous motor. I'll be what 900 to 1,000 or more in with no warranty if I do it myself. If that's the case I might as well just spend a couple hundred more and get a short block. I figured around 300 with new Pistons, rings, wrist pins, bearings and gaskets. Maybe just ball hone the cylinders and go with it. Anybody's advice or incite will be appreciated. It's a 787, carb out of a ski going in my Challenger. Figured I may get more responses here thinking that the engine question doesn't matter if it's a boat or not. Thanks!!!

 

[GGuillot]

From experience, though I tried to block it off, media dust got in my rotary shaft area when doing some media blasting. The RV shaft bearings were gritty no matter how much I tried to flush it. I pulled the shaft and replaced the 2 bearings, cost about $8 shipped. Ordered them through ebay. 6203 Bearing 17x40x12 Open Ball Bearings Low Friction Axle BB Fast Steel Cage | eBay and 6201 Z 6201ZZ BEARING 12x32x10 SHIELDED BEARINGS 6201 2Z C3-USBB I(1O161) 793574850101 | eBay

I'm doing a rebuild right now on a 787 carb engine, one of the inner bearings sounds like you describe, the rest are smooth and quiet. Personally, I'd get another crank if you have doubts.

Cylinders? depending your budget, I'd either rebuild the top end or put the cylinders and pistons back together, just get new caged rod bearings. I wouldn't hone, it'll reseat just fine under a good load on the water. You're only loosening the bore tolerance re honing. I've got a turbo car I've spun a rod bearing a couple times and didn't re hone, within a few hundred miles it re seats just fine.

If you're on budget, minimum efforts, I'd go with a new crank and put the top end back together. I personally don't care for core engine swaps at ~$1200 or send them my engine for a complete rebuild. I like doing it myself and trust my work better than them, especially places like SBT, plus the shipping gets high with shipping entire engines. As far as machine work, I do trust Fullbore, they've done cylinder work for me before and have a good reputation doing it right the first time, currently they have a set right now and I'm waiting for it to come back.

To me a 'warranty' engine could be more headache than it's worth, it's built into the price. There's fine details how it's covered under warranty, plus usually you eat shipping and labor to pull it, etc. If it's done right it shouldn't be trashed by the second season. It's never been deciding factor for me.

 

[97explorer717]

I would be going with a short block from Seadoo. SBT I'm not really a fan of. I had SBT pump parts in one hand and OEM in the other. There was no comparison to me. That got me buying Factory parts right then. Only thing is I don't know what kind of warranty I get from them and is probably more stringent. Fullbore has been a consideration as well. More worried about turnaround time with them more than anything. Guess I should have tore my engine apart sooner.

 

[racerxxx]

Not a problem to bead blast an entire engine. I do it all the time, you just have to be diligent about it and have the tightest fitting plugs. I actually wrap a few paper towels around the inner most part of the PTO and then wrap that with electrical tape.

 

[GGuillot]

I would be going with a short block from Seadoo.

I didn't think Seadoo sold complete engines anymore for 2 strokes.

 

[97explorer717]

They have short blocks! As a matter of fact a member on hear on another post pointed it out to me. I just can't justify saving a couple hundred dollars when I can get an engine built sent to me. I think Seadoo offers a year warranty. Maybe somebody can clarify cuz I can't get an answer from them. I thought the exact same thing that they weren't available. Wouldn't have even looked. The 787 is anyway.

 

[mikidymac]

I am pretty sure the seadoo warranty is only if a licensed dealer installed it. I would verify to be sure.

 

[Matt Braley]

The reman from BRP will not come with a cylinder head. I'm not sure about the warranty.

There is probably a good 100 hrs of service left in the engine you just bought the way it is. If the bearing that makes noise is on the outside then it can be replaced fairly easy. I'd ball hone and put in a set of new rings, new crank seals and gaskets.

 

[97explorer717]

#8 if I could get a 100 hours out of it that would be a couple seasons for me. That would definitely work and is about what I was expecting. I don't know if you can tell by the picture but look at the rod where the wrist pain goes through. There's some marking in there that concerns me. Maybe normal but I'm not sure. Looks like "bearing stop" I don't know.

#7 as far as the warranty being with having it installed at a dealer... that wouldn't surprise me in the least. So in the chance I get one defective I'm going to be out that. That has also been in the back of my mind.

 

[racerxxx]

Warranty is only applicable if dealer installed. I went thru this back in the 90's.

 

[Matt Braley]

It's fine I would run it. That mark is not from heat but from the needle bearing sitting. You can use these OEM ones not the caged because they cover more surface area. 2 Sea-doo GSX GT1 bearing new 420832420 | eBay

If your rings are in spec then run them but if you have to buy the OEM's are too pricey on those in my opinion. If you don't have a hone handy I agree that the rings will likely seat fine.

 

[97explorer717]

I'm putting back together! Can somebody tell me if piston part # 420888410 compatible and or correct? If she blows I'll go a different direction. Got the original engine sitting in the floor of the garage. It's a good core at the very least. Crank is shot. I don't even have to ask on that one. Hopefully won't blow the top apart. The jugs are really nice being stock size. Going to verify specs, ball hone, new rings/pistons. I will post some pictures and have more questions. Thanks for everybody's help and insight.

#11 got them bearings even on best offer!!! By the way guys love me some OEM eBay parts!!!!

 

[Matt Braley]

The 410's are RFI pistons. I hone to size them and they work great buying time on a tired cylinder because they are slightly larger. Your original pistons are 81.89mm and the 410's are 89.91mm. If your clearance is not tighter then .005 then you will be fine with them. You would also be fine with 4 RIK rings from WSM, much cheaper.

 

[mikidymac]

I would agree with Matt, there is no reason to spend the money on new pistons if you aren't going to bore and match to oversized.

If you are just doing it on the cheapest method then just 4 new rings.

 

[97explorer717]

With my 81.89 pistons, what is the max cylinder bore/hone, wear spec? When it comes to the numbers, that's where I get lost! I can take apart and put back together almost anyting but with the specs I've never really had experience. Would love to learn but I know inches! I can tell you down to a 32ed or a 64th but after that I am lost. I do have a book as well. Well it's on the computer but whatever. It may as well be in Japanese. I can look at something and do it but reading the pages I second-guess myself. Most of the time I'm right but still. Probably read about the rotary valve timing 30 times and I had it right the first time. I REALLY appreciate everyone's help!!! I know you guys don't like stupid and common questions.

 

[97explorer717]

Also ball hone suggestions.... Size, grit ect. I usually purchase something like this from eBay or Amazon. Doesn't necessarily have to come from either or. I was eyeing https://www.amazon.com/Research-FLE...ocphy=9008843&hvtargid=pla-571191020396&psc=1

 

[Chester]

The reman from BRP will not come with a cylinder head....

That's a true short block. A long block includes the head. BTW, SBT actually sells long blocks, not short blocks.

Chester

 

[97explorer717]

Well let me open a whole nother can of worms. My wife said I thought "we" we're going to get a rebuilt engine. Don't have to say that twice. Guarantee you I'm shipping the crappy engine in! Or maybe not? I always remembered hearing a good core makes a good rebuild. What do you guys think about Fullbore, SES, PWC, Dr Honda or another member? Maybe anybody else that I'm not aware of .? As stated above I'm just not a fan of SBT. I don't know what they change in the engines to make them not rebuildable to stock. Kind of curious about that.? I was thinking a reman from Seadoo, but with no warranty I just can't do that. Definitely am not going to pay a dealer to install it engine.

 

[97explorer717]

HEY Chester! There's the man that told me about the short blocks!! Glad you chimed in and are still thinking about whatever it is you're thinking about. If I would have listened to this guy from day one, I wouldn't have been out a season and went through 4 head pipes. Well I got a couple hours out of each head pipe. That's what happens when some idiot puts the counterbalance shaft in almost 180 out.

 

[mikidymac]

SBT welds the cranks and repairs cases and cuts heads for lower compression, that’s why others will not take them.

Full Bore does fine work but can be slow and uses WSM parts.

Dr. Honda doesn’t do rebuilds and is busy with other things these days.

Stay away from SES as you could be waiting until winter of next year to get your engine back despite what he says.

In my opinion your only options are Seadoo factory reman, do it yourself, FullBore or SBT.

 

[97explorer717]

Here's a little more of what I have. Looks like the ring was froze on the one piston. Still is.

 

[mikidymac]

You are going to have to do a full rebuild.

The two rear crank bearings could be replaced but you have a rod that has a bad small end so you might as well get a reman crank.

The pistons are pretty scuffed so I am sure the cylinders need to be bored and new oversize pistons installed.

Also you can't measure bores with a caliper like that, you need a bore gauge.

 

[97explorer717]

Yeah I was looking through the manual and seen about the bore gauge. I would have sent the jugs off and had them done anyway if it was going to be more than a hone.

Yeah I thought that crank was done. That small end was a concern from the beginning. It has pitting.

I'm going to send it to Fullbore. They have a " Platinum" rebuild and a "HD premium" rebuild. Not sure what the difference is yet. I'm going to try and call them tomorrow.

 

[GGuillot]

I know you guys don't like stupid and common questions.

I think there's really not 'stupid' questions to ask, people don't know, and 'common' questions are not common to everyone.

If I would have listened to this guy from day one, I wouldn't have been out a season and went through 4 head pipes.

I think I remember this thread last yr, it was a challenger?....breaking pipe stuff over and over it was vibrating so bad.

 

[GGuillot]

'm going to send it to Fullbore. They have a " Platinum" rebuild and a "HD premium" rebuild. Not sure what the difference is yet. I'm going to try and call them tomorrow.

Dan Fairchild does the work at Fullbore, top notch, good reputation behind his work. He's done 2 sets of cylinders for me, last one I just got back this past Monday. Mine took about 3 weeks, he's a little backed up but will get to it, right now the season is upon us and they're getting flooded with orders.

Good choice, you won't be disappointed, many happy customers.