Rebuild old or buy new

[jcross312]

Hello,

I've recently got the desire to get back out on the water. I've been browsing new and used seadoos. While the new ones look really nice they do indeed carry a price tag. My dilemma is I have a 2001 gtx that I used to really enjoy. Right up to the time I blew it up. It's a bit of a basket case now. Needs fully rebuilt engine, rebuilt carbs, and got left out in the rain with the seat off...and the electrical box open that houses the solenoid and some other stuff. It would be alot of work to get it back going.

Are parts still easily available for these skis? Are the new ones much more fun than the old ones? Or is the opposite true? I know they went 4T in 2002. I always enjoyed the power of this old 950? I believe it is. Anyway, dont know alot about the pros and cons of upgrading vs keeping what I got. Thanks for any advice

 

[Ckrawiec]

Well, you just pushed ALL my buttons......first off, define "blew it up"....can you be more specific? Do you KNOW what's wrong?

Tell us what it does and doesn't do please.

IMHO, I LIKE a challenge (but I'm a stubborn SOB). Your personal situation dictates your plan of attack. If you want to get on the water fast....buy a new one and don't look back. If you have the itch and some patience....buy a new engine, drop it in and go. If you are "stupid", and I say that lovingly , REBUILD it.....misery loves company, so bring us along on the journey.

You should be able to access any/all parts required....there are multiple sources new/used....THAT shouldn't be the issue.

 

[jcross312]

Well, you just pushed ALL my buttons......first off, define "blew it up"....can you be more specific? Do you KNOW what's wrong?

Tell us what it does and doesn't do please.

IMHO, I LIKE a challenge (but I'm a stubborn SOB). Your personal situation dictates your plan of attack. If you want to get on the water fast....buy a new one and don't look back. If you have the itch and some patience....buy a new engine, drop it in and go. If you are "stupid", and I say that lovingly , REBUILD it.....misery loves company, so bring us along on the journey.

You should be able to access any/all parts required....there are multiple sources new/used....THAT shouldn't be the issue.

Hey Ck, thanks for the reply. Lol, I used to be pretty stupid, but am wiseing up over the years. If I went with the restoration I may not make it on the water till late next year! With quite a few more grey hairs! My patience isn't what it used to be, and the thought of wrestling around in a jet ski hull ain't my idea of a good time, no matter how many beers are involved . Dropping 10-15k isn't that pleasant either though, so it's still a decision.

I do know what happened to it. It has about 200 hrs. It started running a little lean. Would die out at full throttle. Me being dumb, just thought I could "blow it out" ended up melting a lower rod bearing. Doh. I guess 200 hrs isn't too bad for these motors though from what I've read. The cases are fine it appears and only one bearing melted, although I will of course replace both. Probably entire crank.

I've really been eyeing those new rxp-x 300. Hard to imagine what one of those must be like

 

[Ckrawiec]

Hey Ck, thanks for the reply. Lol, I used to be pretty stupid, but am wiseing up over the years. If I went with the restoration I may not make it on the water till late next year! With quite a few more grey hairs! My patience isn't what it used to be, and the thought of wrestling around in a jet ski hull ain't my idea of a good time, no matter how many beers are involved . Dropping 10-15k isn't that pleasant either though, so it's still a decision.

I do know what happened to it. It has about 200 hrs. It started running a little lean. Would die out at full throttle. Me being dumb, just thought I could "blow it out" ended up melting a lower rod bearing. Doh. I guess 200 hrs isn't too bad for these motors though from what I've read. The cases are fine it appears and only one bearing melted, although I will of course replace both. Probably entire crank.

I've really been eyeing those new rxp-x 300. Hard to imagine what one of those must be like

The older I get (pushing on 60 now)...the "stupider" I get.....instead of just buying new (what I can afford), I still INSIST on going old school and fixing up the tired old "junk"....unfortunately it's in my DNA....WHY go new when the older stuff just needs some love and attention.....my WIFE DISAGREES vehemently....but alas....they can't take a joke!

So, I have struck that delicate balance point....buy new stuff for her and the kids, I play with the old stuff....I have ACTUALLY not ridden the newer stuff very much either.....I am re-launching my '96 GTX this weekend (I think/hope I have her all situated right again), and she's mine.....ALTHOUGH I KNOW....ONCE she's running again, everybody wants to jump on it cause it's pretty zippy and stable and fun.....it is the perfect ski between the 2017 Spark (which is smaller than the GTX) and the 2018 GTI (which is slightly bigger than the GTX). It is my personal favorite.

 

[NickCawks]

I think you have come to a place where people are very fond of the old skis and you might find some biases.

If we look at the facts:
2 strokes -
Are prone to breaking
Easy to work on
Cheap to work on (relatively)
Hull designs are considerably less stable (especially the smaller ones)

4 strokes -
More reliable
Harder to repair
Much more expensive to repair
Hull designs are ridiculously stable, like hard to roll over stable.

Similarities -
Both provide a great smile per gallon rating. Though some may argue that the satisfaction of doing things yourself will increase the SPG rating (I know it does for me)

The question comes down to:
Do you want to tinker or do you want to ride? The next question is do you want to spend the cost of an economy car that only drives on the water or do you want to take the budget route which may require you to work on it every once in a while.

 

[mikidymac]

It also depends on how you use them...

1. For smaller lakes and just being stupid with friends you can't beat the light playfulness of the 2-strokes. Now if you are on larger rougher water and want to cover distances then the 4-strokes shine. But the 4-strokes are anything but light and playful and going 70 mph gets old pretty fast for me.

2. Cost: The 2-strokes hands down. Cheap to buy and cheap to own and fix compared to the 4-strokes.
3. Ease of working on: Tie. 2-strokes are easier to work on but need more maintenance. 4-strokes are plugs, oil changes and possibly superchargers and more expensive services. This only applies if you can and are willing to do your own wrenching, if not the 4-stroke as most shops don't want to or know how to work on 2-strokes.

4. Reliability: Depends on the person... I maintain my 2-strokes to the Tee which is fogging after every ride and carbs and pump service every couple of years and have never had a single engine or mechanical failure on any of my skis. I do however go through any new to me ski from top to bottom which almost nobody does. And keep in mind most of these skis are ove 20 years old so that is pretty darn reliable. 4-strokes can and do still have issues with valves, superchargers, intercoolers and electrical gremlins so they are not perfect. But if you know your maintenance is just putting gas in and that is it for you then 4-stroke is a better option.

Your decision...... If you can do the work yourself the easy and cheaper option is to restore yours since for about $1,500 you will have a brand new 2001 GTX that will last another 200 hours. IF you just want to add gas and ride then a newer 4-stroke is the way to go.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

I'm not a big fan of the 951. If you had a GTX, then you're not into light-weight nimble skis and prefer a large, comfortable ride. The newer 4strokes really shine here. They are GIGANTIC, very stable and extremely heavy. They are essentially a small boat. Their bulk gives them much more authority in choppy water. They're also easier to diagnose, as they have an onboard diagnostic system. Now the diagnostic equipment will cost you your first born plus tax, but it is nice once you have it. Not having to play the carburetor guessing game is awesome too. Yes, they are more expensive to maintain, like a supercharger rebuild is $300, but it doesn't have to be done that often (200h or so). I have one 2stroke (my 95 xp800) and one 4stroke (09 Yama FX HO). That XP is the only 2 stroke worth all the trouble of 2 strokes. I can only have one, because I want the rest of the fleet to be reliable and trouble-free. That's why I went 4 stroke. You can still buy older 4 strokes that need some TLC. A 2004 GTX is 16 years old now, most need plenty of TLC. On the bright side, they have REALLY come down in price. I've seen them as cheap as $800 for a running one. If you get the non-supercharged version, they come with 155hp, are great on fuel and are pretty trouble-free. That's the way I'd go.

 

[mikidymac]

Also depends on your area, you can't touch any 4-strokes here in California for under $4K.

 

[GGuillot]

I'm not quite there yet to age 60, but you can bet when I reach that age it'll be exactly what I want since riding on the water may come to an end sooner than later.

Factors I'd consider. 1. Upfront cost and cost to maintain. 2. Style of riding , cruising vs. jumping and snapping it around in the water. 3. Is top speed important? 4. Passengers coming along? 5. Pulling tubes (grand kids?). 6. Endurance or range, short and long riding times. 7. Where would you be mainly taking it? calm small lake or river or choppy big lakes that get busy on the weekend?

Personally for me, the maintenance isn't bad once you've gone completely over the ski, I have two 787 skis they've yet to leave me stuck needing a tow. What I do like is how easy and affordable it can be for owning a 2 stroke. I think it's a diminishing return to buy a used 4 stoke, when they do need work it's much more expensive. I had a conversation with a person once that was getting 2-3 seasons on his yamaha 4 stroke and needing to replace the engine each time at $3K, he soured all together and sold it and swore off another ski unless it was brand new.

The top end speed isn't a big deal to me, 50's on the water is plenty fast, I usually cruise around 40 ish, much faster you miss the scenery. The sound the 2 strokes make is enjoyable, I'd be bored with Spark or Newer GTI 4 stroke, I've been around them and it's underwhelming.

 

[jcross312]

Alot of good posts. Thanks for the good info. I guess the gtx is kinda big. If anything I'd really like to go to a smaller hull, but keep the power. I like being able to flick them around a little. I mostly ride solo, so it's all about having fun on the water. Top speed I'm good with around 60. 70 would be nice, but not a deal breaker. I think the gtx would run around 63ish and that was fast enough really. I think the 4T models are even bigger and heavier, no? Dont think I'd like that. And someone mentioned the sound. I think I would miss that too. Something about the sound of a 2T just sounds right. I have a lake and a river nearby. Sometimes take it to Panama City and ride in the gulf. That is really fun to me, although some will say not to put them in salt water, but it's just so much fun to ride at the beach. (I admit I've rode into shore and turned and jumped incoming waves XD...is that even legal? Lol)

That's also where the reliability of a newer 4T would be nice peace of mind. Maybe ride a little further out from the coast? ...The bad thing now is it would probably take a couple months minimum to get the gtx going. I'm sure the rebuild places where you ship your motor to are full swing right now. And I'm busy with work myself. Would be nice to jump on one and ride.

Thanks for the advice,

 

[mikidymac]

Your GTX does about 56-57. You might want to look at the RX. It’s the largest of the 2-stroke 2 seaters Seadoo made, has the 951 power and even reverse.

 

[NickCawks]

If your wanting a smaller 2 stroke the xp's are a blast and will not let you down power wise.

The 97 xp is the next ski I have my sites set on. I had the opportunity to ride one for the first time last year and it was great. It's quick and nimble but also has the suspension in the seat which made things so much smoother than my 95.

 

[mikidymac]

The 97 XP is a mixed bag as it was never intended to have the 787 in it. It was to have the 951 but the engine wasn't ready yet. The hull has so much more wetted surface that it really needs the 951 and is why it is slower than the X4 hull. They are reliable and easy to maintain compared to the 1998+ XP's.

In my opinion and one of my best skis was a 1997 XP with a Group K sleeper kit on it. It had the performance of a 951 XP but looked stock and was as reliable as can be with the 787.

 

[emspjay]

I think I'm going to stick with my 2 stokes for long time, but not the wife. She would rather have newer, specifically a blue/green 2016 Seadoo GTI. She is going to have to ride her 1996 GTX for awhile longer because prices on those 2016 GTI's are still way too high in my area. People want 8-9k for one of those still which blows my mind because I can get a new 2020 for 11k.

 

[GGuillot]

People want 8-9k for one of those still which blows my mind because I can get a new 2020 for 11k.

8-9K in the driveway wouldn't be bad for a low hour model with a trailer, new at 11K you still need a trailer and then add tax.

 

[emspjay]

8-9K in the driveway wouldn't be bad for a low hour model with a trailer, new at 11K you still need a trailer and then add tax.

Most I have seen for 8-9k don't include trailers (don't need one either) and then I still have to pay sales tax on the 8-9k when I title and register it . So I think 8-9k is very high for a 4 year old Doo with no warranty. I don't know if those 2016 command higher price because it is a nice color combo or what? Can find plenty of other used GTI's for 5-7k.

 

[jcross312]

Well, I went to the local dealer and blew my load. I'm very happy with it after an hour or so. Awesome sound system too

 

[mikidymac]

Very nice!

 

[emspjay]

Awesome ride!! Congrats!