Progress! But still too hard to start on water - 96 Challenger

[mejim707]

Sounds like a plan. If it works maybe I'll tread down that path myself. I was hoping for an easier fix though. Good luck

Hey! I just wanted you to know that I was stuck again at the dock blocked in by a disabled boat. So I messed around and tracked the dribble sound to the water regulator. I then decided to clamp off the water lines to the regulator and also the main inlet from the pump because it seems water was getting into the exhaust and causing it to bog out.

Sure enough the engine fired right up when I tried to start it! It started and was running with no issues after trying to start for a while before hand.

It would not attempt to fire until I clamped those lines. So there is definitely an issue where water is preventing the engine form starting or bogging it down. No water is getting into the engine, but the water lines are absolutely causing my no start condition.

Do you have photos of how your cooling system hoses are routed that I can reference?

I need to know if the routing is correct, and perhaps my water regulator is no good. I have no clue but I can now start without issue on water so long as those hoses are clamped.

Of course I don't want to have to do this every time, so I need to find the solution.

 

[mikidymac]

Hello Mejim707. We are trying to help with your issue but you have three threads in two sections all chasing the same issue.

I can merge the threads if you want but let's stick to one so we can help you as efficiently as possible.

Thanks.

 

[mejim707]

Hello Mejim707. We are trying to help with your issue but you have three threads in two sections all chasing the same issue.

I can merge the threads if you want but let's stick to one so we can help you as efficiently as possible.

Thanks.

I created threads based on different questions or progress.

For instance, I have an original thread all about my starting issue that seems dead so I abandoned it. I think its years old as well since I have been so inundated I couldn't work on this for years.

I have a thread specifically asking if the RV and cover looks ok. It's only for that purpose to get feedback on the RV. It's part of my diagnosis but it's a specific question.

I created a different one specifically for the stripped out RV cover bolt. That's a specific question for that reason.

I then created a different thread just about progress, but that ultimately turned into tracking down the starting issue. But it is about progress and I think I'm very close to resolving it. At the moment, I only have 2 open threads with movement, one about progress, and one about the RV condition.

And the only reason I add threads to the 2 stroke engine section is because the boat section seems to be less frequented, and some of my questions will be specific to a Rotax 787, and not necessarily for a boat.

I definitely don't want to abuse the forum, but I'm trying to keep my topics separate and unique, but again, ultimately they all are for the purpose of tracking down this issue.

 

[mejim707]

The starting issue is fixed!!!! All this time it was because the hoses were not tied up in a high loop! I tested it out today and it starts on water when hot now without issue now! I’m free to go anywhere on the lake and dock it. I’m so stoked man you have no idea.

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[mikidymac]

Awesome! Glad you got this figured out and can enjoy the boat.

 

[POPPS]

The starting issue is fixed!!!! All this time it was because the hoses were not tied up in a high loop! I tested it out today and it starts on water when hot now without issue now! I’m free to go anywhere on the lake and dock it. I’m so stoked man you have no idea.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Way to go...who would have thought?

 

[mejim707]

Way to go...who would have thought?

It felt like it had to be something stupid because everything else checked out lol I knew that running water sound didn't seem right.

I also had already bought a new RV from SBT early this week, not with the cover just a new valve, and I threw that in last night with a new gasket just to make sure all of that was fresh. The valve I had worked but it was a little rough. The engine has the new one now so that should be good for a long time.

Thanks for all the replies and ideas POPPS!

 

[WhiteZombie]

The starting issue is fixed!!!! All this time it was because the hoses were not tied up in a high loop! I tested it out today and it starts on water when hot now without issue now! I’m free to go anywhere on the lake and dock it. I’m so stoked man you have no idea.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Can you please post a picture of how you tied up the hoses? I had similiar issues while testing out my sportster 1800 the last few days. I don't think my fuel lines are tied up in any particular way is why I ask.

Not to "steal" your post, but I have an issue I need some eyes on. I think my posts are not making it to the big show on this forum. I can't seem to find them, and I don't get much response at times. I see a whole lot of posts that never get a reply, while at the same time see post like this that go 57 deep. If someone can offer me guidance on what I'm doing wrong to get post responses I would greatly appreciate it. I am working some bugs out on my boat and I will greatly appreciate some good eyes on my questions. Thanks so much to those that have and will reply. You guys are great

 

[POPPS]

What boat?

 

[DarrenR]

It felt like it had to be something stupid because everything else checked out lol I knew that running water sound didn't seem right.

I also had already bought a new RV from SBT early this week, not with the cover just a new valve, and I threw that in last night with a new gasket just to make sure all of that was fresh. The valve I had worked but it was a little rough. The engine has the new one now so that should be good for a long time.

Thanks for all the replies and ideas POPPS!

Hey Mejim,
Congrats on the fix. I too would love to see some pics and more independent explanation of what you found to be the cause and fix. You just elevated the water hoses and secured them?

Thx

 

[DarrenR]

Hey Mejim,
Congrats on the fix. I too would love to see some pics and more independent explanation of what you found to be the cause and fix. You just elevated the water hoses and secured them?

Thx

*Indepth explanation, not independent. Bad autocorrect

 

[mejim707]

*Indepth explanation, not independent. Bad autocorrect

I don't know if this is in-depth, but, here are a few pictures of before and after. Closing off those hoses allows me to start the boat after running every time.

When I would run the engine, then shut it off, the suction would start a siphoning affect that would allow water to pour into the resonator, and maybe even continue flowing through the engine. I'm not sure, but this would inevitably prevent starting by likely filling the exhaust and bogging it out.

So, with suggestions and just thinking through it, I knew that water running sound was not right, so I tied the hoses up in a high loop behind the rear barrier of the engine bay.

I'm going to still tinker with it because I don't really care for how it works, and I want to get it a bit higher and out of the way. But this is definitely the step in the right direction.

A few days ago I was able to start it at the dock 4 times, and out on the lake 4 times for testing. Each time it started up right away.

 

[mejim707]

Can you please post a picture of how you tied up the hoses? I had similiar issues while testing out my sportster 1800 the last few days. I don't think my fuel lines are tied up in any particular way is why I ask.

Not to "steal" your post, but I have an issue I need some eyes on. I think my posts are not making it to the big show on this forum. I can't seem to find them, and I don't get much response at times. I see a whole lot of posts that never get a reply, while at the same time see post like this that go 57 deep. If someone can offer me guidance on what I'm doing wrong to get post responses I would greatly appreciate it. I am working some bugs out on my boat and I will greatly appreciate some good eyes on my questions. Thanks so much to those that have and will reply. You guys are great

Hi WhiteZombie, yeah the forum is a little light at times with replies likely because everyone is out enjoying their Skis and Boats lol But the replies do come through. And Popps has been very active as well.

I did just post a few pictures of what I did above. For testing, you can use hose pinchers to pinch off the inlet line from the jet pump to see if perhaps this helps. Just don't forget it! Remove it before running.

So when I would stop, I would immediately pinch the inlet from the jet pump, the flush hose (since it doesn't have a cap and apparently it should never have a cap... I don't know why..) and the large hose connecting to the water regulator valve on the resonator. When i did this the water sound and flow into the exhaust stopped.

It seems some people don't have this issue, and some have a short hose coming in from the jet pump. So I don't know why my situation is different. I even tried a shorter hose from the jet pump to the engine and this made no difference. The only thing that worked was pinching those hoses, or tie it up in a high loop. Even the high loop needs to be high enough to break the siphon. But you'll know it's right when you shut the engine off and you no longer hear a distinct water running sound.

I would still love an explanation on why I need to do this when others do not. One idea was that the boats sit lower in the water while the skies are a little higher and the water inlet may be slightly out of water breaking the siphon.

But I can't find any pictures or information anywhere that suggests the need to do this. Every picture I see of boat engine bays the hose is short and comes in directly from the inlet, T's to the water valve, and then connects direct to the engine. I have never seen a single picture of an engine bay where a high loop was needed. So this is still interesting and I would love to know why I need to do this.

 

[mejim707]

Actually, I just found this post, it's not about the water siphoning in, however, notice that this is a 97 challenger and take a look at the inlet hose. This person has it tied up in a high loop! There may be something to this. And to me, this totally seems like a design flaw, but I'm not a seadoo engineer.

Resonator leaking water