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Possible a dead Engine ? Please help

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KK you heard his video, what could that constant clicking sound be? My '06 RXT doesn't make any such sounds with the seats off, I've had the lanyard on the post many times with the seats off checking things and other than a short burst from the electric fuel pump building up fuel pressure as soon as the lanyard is put on the post, there are no other sounds until you press the Start/Stop button.... those sounds have me baffled!

- Michael
 
I took out the spark plugs and the engine did not even try anything anymore. not even the noise with the plugs in. You might be right about the corroded wires. he bypassed it by hooking a plus and minus little device to the starter relay and pressing a button on that hand device it was like a ball. engine did the same thing, nothing different.

I will take the charger out and send it for a rebuild by my estimates it has about 80 hours. It was done by previous owner a season back lets say he put 50 hours and i did another 40 so thats like 90 hours ..should be ok for now.. I am planning to send it by the end of season or maybe like a monday. In canada summer is only 2 months...

I will let the jet ski there until monday or tuesday and find out if he tested the starter. In cars my "car mechanic" told me there is a way to test the engine manuually to test if it spins ..can u do the same with the sea doo engine ?
 
Agreed. I went out to the garage and took the seat off mine and plugged the lanyard in to listen. 1click for fuel pump another click when I hit the start button. Nothing else. I'm thinking that it could be just a bad starter. At this point that's cheaper than a replacement engine. However the way it quit running is still bothering me. I don't care I'd the started just cashed out the motor won't quit running till you shut it off.

Let's go back to the beginning and figure out why it just quit instead of tryin to start it. What can cause a 4tec to just shut off?

Catastrophic failure - unlikely
Something jammed in the pump - spins freely
Oil pressure switch - ??? But that shouldn't prevent it form turning over
Cracked intercooler allowing fresh water into the intake causing hydrolock
Supercharger ceased up solid - not sure if that would put enough drag on the motor to stall it since its a clutch based design unless the clutches melted all together but that highly unlikely

How about you pull those plugs out and crank it with plugs out just to see what happens and if any water spits out. If its hydrolocked, that clicking could be the starter relay being overloaded maybe? I'm just guessing as to what that clicking is.
 
I took out the spark plugs and the engine did not even try anything anymore. not even the noise with the plugs in. You might be right about the corroded wires. he bypassed it by hooking a plus and minus little device to the starter relay and pressing a button on that hand device it was like a ball. engine did the same thing, nothing different.

I will take the charger out and send it for a rebuild by my estimates it has about 80 hours. It was done by previous owner a season back lets say he put 50 hours and i did another 40 so thats like 90 hours ..should be ok for now.. I am planning to send it by the end of season or maybe like a monday. In canada summer is only 2 months...

I will let the jet ski there until monday or tuesday and find out if he tested the starter. In cars my "car mechanic" told me there is a way to test the engine manuually to test if it spins ..can u do the same with the sea doo engine ?

If you can remove the starter that should give you access to the flywheel. Using a screw driver or small pry bar turn the engine by the teeth on the flywheel. This works easier with the plugs out
 
guys I really appreciate all your help inputs and ideas. I was thinking about the same if starter was bad .. why did it shut down...One thing for sure its that stupid noise when u put the key in and when u take it out it makes like a shooting noise... Once we fix that ..we can look more.. Once I have the jet ski with me I`ll take the supercharger hose out and check for any damage in there .. If I have to..I`ll even pull it out all together I know its not that hard and take some pics and see how it looks.

I did change my oil myself a month ago but I put at least 6..7 hours on it from then... I dont think I overfilled it with oil tho.

Perfect I`ll try to do that to move the teeth on the flywheel.
 
Another thing you wanna check is your ground wires. Those can cause a shutdown out of the blue if they are corroded as can also cause that clicking through a bad connection. After that do a "wiggle test" for lack of better term to ALL your harness connections. You never know what can happen.

I remember 2 years ago this guy pulled up in a 06RXT and it was completely dead when he tried to leave. Him and his buddy were pulling plugs and checking the oil with no luck. After a while I went over there and due to minimal tools I just started wiggling all the wired and it magically came to life. Couldn't tell you what I touched
 
Ok he already tried it with the spark plugs removed and it didn't do anything still wouldn't crank over... and the clicking sounds went away with the spark plug coils removed! Now that is interesting.

KK remember it's making those clicks even though he's NOT pushing on the Start/Stop button, it's just sitting there clicking away like crazy... a short perhaps, causing another relay to constantly go on/off? What other relays are there in these things?

If it was hydrolocked it would have spit-out the liquid with the spark plugs out when he bumped the starter, but instead it still barely turned the engine at all... even though his battery is fully charged and supposedly good. Weird! Bad battery cables or a short somewhere taking all the juice away from the system?

George there are 2 possible ways to turn the engine without the starter, pull the jet pump back out and turn the driveshaft by hand (remove the spark plugs so it will be easier to turn by hand), or just take the spark plugs out and use a long rod like a long 1/2" drive extension or dowel rod to push the piston's down 1 at a time... you should be able to push each of them down in sequence, just as if they were being pushed by fuel/air exploding inside the cylinders when it's running.

It would be nice to know that the engine can be turned over completely without anything jamming, but that does not explain the constant clicking sounds made when the lanyard is on the post. If George can confirm that the engine does indeed turn over ok by hand, then that only leaves an electrical problem.

- Michael
 
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Yes we need to know if the engine turns by hand. If it does then we got an electrical nightmare ahead. I hate electrical problems.
 
Uhmmmm, the starter is almost impossible to remove without removing the exhaust manifold 1st though and that isn't alot of fun (you cannot see the starter and can barely reach it with the exhaust manifold installed, ask me how I know this!)... faster to try my ways of turning the engine, either by pulling the jetpump (hey you already know how after all!) and turning the driveshaft by hand or trying to push the pistons down thru the spark plug holes (either way, do pull the spark plugs out so you're not working against the cylinder compression). Don't use anything sharp or pointed to push the pistons down, you don't want to damage them!!! No hammering either obviously, you can either push them down by hand or not!

Also do go ahead and check your engine oil level 1st, it's possible for an engine to "make oil" and be way overfilled (a leaking intercooler that leaks just a small amount at a time can slowly drip water into the cylinders where it then seeps down past the piston rings and into the crankcase for example... it's happened to people on this forum before!).

- Michael
 
I do think it`s electrical too. I cant seem to have the engine just die like that and especially cuz of the noise it makes. I will pick up the jet ski Saturday the latest if he`s open and I'll do more work/investigation myself. For sure its either the engine or electrical. I'll also try to spin the engine manually without the spark plugs on... probably from the shaft that goes into the jet pump.. under the grill without removing the pump..or that might be a bit harder ? It could be a short as well.

If I turn it by hand a few rotations like 10 or more then I should know if its the engine is not stuck right ?

Should I also try this another member from a different forum suggested:

Remove the spark plugs and the hose that attaches to the supercharger inlet. Using a 17mm socket, try to turn the supercharger nut counter-clockwise, it should turn with a little effort.
 
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and to actually point it to the elitrical nightmare some more I remember after I took the key out from ignition ...the cluster display was still running for a while.. I never saw that before on my ski.. as soon as I used to take it out it was gone... Now its gone on the sport but when I made that movie .. for 3..5 times stuff was still "ON" without having the key in
 
and to actually point it to the elitrical nightmare some more I remember after I took the key out from ignition ...the cluster display was still running for a while.. I never saw that before on my ski.. as soon as I used to take it out it was gone... Now its gone on the sport but when I made that movie .. for 3..5 times stuff was still "ON" without having the key in

Ok let me ask you this then. When it quit on you did the gauge cluster stay on and when you're trying to crank does it stay on or flicker or shut off?Basically does it do anything other than stay on?
 
It might be the post where the lanyard attaches. That explains the gauges cluster staying on and the random clicking of the relay. I'm guessing that is the fuel pump relay that keeps clicking due to a bad connection somewhere in that post. Also explains the not cranking and the starter/solenoid checking out good and the unexpected shut down.

It sounds all good as long as the motor turns freely by hand lol. If that test fails then, well, it's gonna be expensive
 
If you have an OEM intake grate, and small hands/arms, then you might can turn the driveshaft from under the hull without removing anything but the spark plugs. It'll be alot easier to turn the driveshaft if you could use both hands though.... like, by removing the jetpump again.

Since you need to have the spark plugs out anyways, go ahead and stick something long down 1 of the spark plug holes and you can see it moving up and down 1 or 2 full strokes should be plenty to confirm there's nothing mechanically wrong with that engine (have somebody else watch if you are under the hull trying to turn the driveshaft.. that's going to be challenging though mark my words!).

I'm speculating here: I'm wondering if 1 of the iginition coils could be bad and the reason for that clicking sound that only occurrs when the spark plugs are in and the coils on? Before trying to turn the engine by hand George, you might want to pull 1 coil off at a time and put the lanyard on to see if it does the clicking sounds or not (pull 1 coil, put the lanyard on and listen for clicks, then pull the lanyard off and put the coil back on and try the next coil and repeat). Just an idea that. I find it very odd that you heard no clicking sounds when you had the spark plugs out and tried to crank the engine over yourself... that is suspicious!

- Michael
 
If you have an OEM intake grate, and small hands/arms, then you might can turn the driveshaft from under the hull without removing anything but the spark plugs. It'll be alot easier to turn the driveshaft if you could use both hands though.... like, by removing the jetpump again.

Since you need to have the spark plugs out anyways, go ahead and stick something long down 1 of the spark plug holes and you can see it moving up and down 1 or 2 full strokes should be plenty to confirm there's nothing mechanically wrong with that engine (have somebody else watch if you are under the hull trying to turn the driveshaft.. that's going to be challenging though mark my words!).

I'm speculating here: I'm wondering if 1 of the iginition coils could be bad and the reason for that clicking sound that only occurrs when the spark plugs are in and the coils on? Before trying to turn the engine by hand George, you might want to pull 1 coil off at a time and put the lanyard on to see if it does the clicking sounds or not (pull 1 coil, put the lanyard on and listen for clicks, then pull the lanyard off and put the coil back on and try the next coil and repeat). Just an idea that. I find it very odd that you heard no clicking sounds when you had the spark plugs out and tried to crank the engine over yourself... that is suspicious!

- Michael

You may be onto something here with this. The whole no clicking when the coils were unplugged went right over my head and forgot about it. Could one bad coil (or 2) cause it to not crank? I doubt it but stranger things have happened
 
On a slightly different line of thought to do with the not starting and the sudden stop.

If you find you cant turn the engine over by hand it may be possible that the starter when you started the ski engaged and then didnt release back. If this happened the engine is now driving the starter and with the engine speed you can achieve it would fry the bearings and then eventually seize which could stop the engine suddenly out of nowhere.

But if this were the case I should have smelt like burnt bearing etc from the starter.

Still think the electrics are the issue, maybe the gauge cluster is shorting and causing all the issues.
 
That is very unlikely only because you hear the starter engage and attempts to turn over when he tries to start it. Good theory though. I never thought of it.
 
I agree with KK, the starter is still working you can clearly hear it engage and begin to turn the engine over for a second when George pressed the Start/Stop button in the video. So the starter isn't currently hung-up in the engine starter gear.

Also if the guage cluster were shorting out I don't think it'd work, yet George says it's working and working briefly even after he removed the lanyard which is pretty weird.

I think there is another relay that engages when the correct lanyard is put on the post, though I'm not sure where it is offhand... there has to be a relay for that to energize the system when the correct lanyard is used. I'm thinking that must be the source of all that clicking sound that's going on, for whatever reason. KK you mention you notice 1 click when you put your lanyard on and you thought that was the fuel pump engaging, but I don't think that's actually the fuel pump I think it's another relay energizing the electrical system in general. Could the lanyard post not be making good contact with the lanyard possibly?

George another thing to try: spray the lanyard post down with some WD40 and see if that changes anything. There could be some oxidation on the post hindering electrical contact with the lanyard.

- Michael
 
hey guys, I just picked up my jet ski from the mechanic that didnt even look at it...and again he said if starter is good ..he`ll have to pull the engine out and open it up... no testing whatsoever.

So I'll go home today afterwork and try to take the starter out, replace the starter relay and try to manually rotate the engine like you guys said.. I`ll take some other movie and give some updates tonight.

thank you so much
 
Why are you taking the starter out? What do you intend to do once you have the starter out?

The starter relay either works, or doesn't work (the starter doesn't even engage if it doesn't work). The mechanic already showed you that the starter relay is working as I recall. So... why replace it if it's working?

You may need to re-read everything and make a list of what you want to check in the order from easiest to check to hardest to check... pulling that starter out isn't much fun, it's harder than pulling the jetpump out IMHO.

- Michael
 
I will start by trying to manually rotate the drive shaft under the jet ski, take the plugs out and trying without taking the pump out ...I hear you about the starter so I won't do the starter yet
 
thats it.. ITS over :(((

the first noise went away somehow and the shooting noise is still there when u take the key out. I took the plugs out and it did the same... I took the grill out and try to manually rotate the engine did not do anything. I took the pump out and tried again I couldn't rotate it manually. I put a rod in one of the cilynders and try pusing it down with the whole body ..It did not go down... So I tried to started and the cyclinder came down and when it came up the rod got stuck in there and now it's done..I cant take the rod.. I hammerit down and it didnt even go back down.. and try some more to bring it up and no luck.

So I have to take the engine out..

Now I need a lot of help. I might loose this season as it another 2 months thats all. I dont wanna pay 6500 a mechanic with a new engine . I do have a few options . remember I am in toronto canada.

1. Call around some shops and see how much they charge for a new or used engine. How much they charge only labour if I bring them the engine myself.
2. Take the engine out myself as I have a car mechanic who could help as well as my dad so that should not be more than 3..4 hours I am expecting. Then with the book and forum try to rebuild the engine ..see what went wrong etc. Can I start the engine for 10 second once I rebuild it without putting it back to the hull ? Anyways this will mean season for me is done as it will take time to rebuild it etc.
3. Buy a used or new engine from the state and bring it to canada install it in canada or .. install it in the states.. I dont mind driving for a weekend and take a week or so from work to just repair it. But again I need an honest mechanic for this...


I am totally mad and sad in the same time... I was not the one riding the ski when this happend but my friend ..i dont even know if he will pay anything..anyways...I wish I had the jet ski for the summer.
 
Yeah uhmmmm, didn't I mention in my post NOT to use a hammer but TO use a very long rod or something long? :-(

Get your car mechanic friend, ya'll go ahead and start taking things off the engine you might as well pull it out and see how bad the damage is. (Sigh!)

Don't discount the possibility that it's not ruined only broken and you can fix it yourself with a little help... it may not be too bad, whatever the problem is.

- Michael
 
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