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Possible a dead Engine ? Please help

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georgep

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Hi guys, I have a 2008 GTX Limited 215. I went today on the water with it and after 5 minutes .. I took it for a spin let it idle for 20 seconds and then engine cut off. I tried starting but the engine doesn't seem to wanna cranck up,. It kinda wants to try for 1 sec and nothing happends. Its not even cracking properly. It seems like something its stuck ..don't let it crank up.

What do you guys think it can be the issue ? is my engine dead ? or the supercharger broke in it and got to the engine ? What should I try myself first .. I don't want to take it to the dealer as I dont have many good dealers around...

I tried giving a boost but still nothing. I tried to start it with my second key... nothing.. Can it be the starter or something... I mean if the engine would,ve blow or the supercharge it should've make a noise and not on idle right ? I have no error codes on the display..

I want to fix it badly asap as the summer just started.

Thanks a lot.
 
Honestly, it sounds like you've sucked a rope up into the jetpump and it's wound up tight in there so tight it killed the engine at idle and now won't let it spin fast enough to start again. If I were you I'd 1st get under the hull with a flashlight and look up inside the intake grate and see if you can see anything in there that doesn't belong. Then I'd pull the pump off the hull and get a really good look at the impeller, again you're looking for a piece of rope wound up inside the pump around the impeller or shaft.

Ask me how I know about this!!! I backed over my own ski rope once with my jetboat and it sucked it up and wound it around the shaft killing the engine all by itself. Took HOURS in a boat lift cutting that blasted rope out of there (much more involved to remove a Berkley jetpump from a jetboat than a SeaDoo jetpump from a SeaDoo watercraft). The rope was so tightly wound it was hard as rock, and it had wedged it's coils against the inside of the pump which was how it had killed my engine. I NEVER did that again, no backing up while a ski rope line is played out (in my defense I did not know that my friend had tossed the rope about 1 minute before I went to back up, so I was a bit suprised by that to say the least).

- Michael
 
ps. It may not be YOUR rope that's gotten sucked in, people sometimes loose ropes for whatever reason and they can be hard to see laying across the surface of the water... I sucked in somebody else's rope another time, but saw the rope snaking thru the water towards my boat and I killed the engine before it had wound in so blasted tightly. It wasn't as difficult to get out as that rope I'd backed over that killed my engine luckily.

- Michael
 
I wouldn't try to start it again until the problem is solved. It sounds like a jammed pump or jammed motor. Try the pump first, it's the easiest to remove. If bearing is good then it's tear down time to some point of finding the problem.
 
guys if I manage to take out the complete pump out can I try to start it without the pump in the back ? Its basically the engine with the shaft without the pump it should start if its something within the pump that keeps it away from starting right ? No problems to try to start the engine without the pump ?

Thank you
 
No, because the driveshaft doesn't come out with the pump and it will fling around wildly if you start the engine! Pull the pump out, check to see that the impeller can turn freely that nothing's got it jammed. If the impeller turns freely and you find nothing foreign inside the pump then we'll try other things at that point.

- Michael
 
Updates: I took out the jet pump all together today but there's absolutely nothing there... the engine still dont start ..same noise like it doesnt want to crank... what else should I do ? I did change my oil myself about 1 month ago but went to over 10 hours on it .. it can't be from the oil.. as it sits its in the middle of the dip stick signs. I did not put more oil than I should've.

If I take it to a dealer not sure what they can do to troubleshoot it even further. I really hope its not a dead engine or the supercharger to have broken cuz I haven't rebuild it in time... Any inputs guys much appreciated it.
I tried to turn it out without spark plugs it make some other noise then... but still nothing starts..
even with full throtle pushed all the way ..it should crank the engine itself and it doesn't..it's the same noise as in the video
I think its electric related as I remember last year once it lost all the power for a split second and it beeped.
 
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Ok so the impeller turned freely on the pump then right? Hmmm... have you had your battery tested lately? How old is the battery? How many hours on the watercraft?

At this point I think I'd pop the jet pump back in and hook everything back up to it, pull the battery out and run it to local auto parts or Walmart Automotive section and let them run their diagnostic unit on the battery (it's free and will tell you the condition of the battery). They'll tell you if the battery is good or not. If the battery is good then you might want to pull the supercharger out and check it.... if it's do a 100 hr rebuild then you might as well get it done. If it's neither the battery nor the supercharger then I'd start thinking about hauling it to a dealership for a diagnosis at least... they can diagnose the problem and write you an estimate for repairs, there will be a charger for this of course but you don't have to let them fix it if you think it's something you can do yourself.

- Michael
 
2008 GTX limited with 252 hours. I took a look at the supercharger. I can see the original clips on the whose that goes from the charger to the manifold the big one.. does it mean it was never changed or dealers use those clips ? I took a few pics I`ll try to upload them. I can test the voltage to on the battery.
I hooked my car while my car engine was off obviously, to the jet ski battery tried to give boost but nothing happened so its not the battery right ?

I want to take it to a dealer not sure if it's worth it or I just first pull the charger out myself and check it out first ? How are they going to diagnostic ? can they look at the ECU and stuff like that .. One mechanic said he will test the compression of the engine ..HOW if its not starting ..not even cranking, is it possible to take the compression measurements ?

Oh man... I dont like dealers.. and dont trust them at all..I just dont wanna pay 200$ for them to tell me some bs..
 
can it be the ECU ? as I left the key from the ignition and the computer was still displaying stuff for couple of seconds if not more.... and I think I can hear some noise there around the ECU ?
 
George it could be any number of things, all we're trying to do here is narrow down the field by checking all the basics 1st which is why I wanted you to check your pump for anything wound up inside it to begin with.

Take your battery (not the charger) out and go have it tested George. A bad battery can actually pull the voltage down from a good battery jumpered to it. You need to know for certain your battery is good, most people I've read claim they only get 2 to 3 boating seasons out of their batteries before they have to replace them. Find out if your battery is good or needs replacing before anything else!

Obviously you cannot take compression measurements without cranking the engine over, so a dealership would put a new battery in and get it to crank over 1st. It's quite possible you need a new battery, go find out!

If you have 252 hrs on it and that supercharger has never been rebuilt then... that thing needs to be rebuilt immediately before something really bad happens! Dealers can use those crimp-on hose clamps, you can buy the pliers and clamps online and do them yourself even, so that's not a good indication of whether it's ever been removed and rebuilt or not. If you don't know it's been rebuilt within the last 100 hrs, then you need to go ahead and have it rebuilt. Superchargers are a wear item, and worse if they fail they fail INSIDE of the engine crankcase and parts fall down into the crankcase and make a big mess!

- Michael
 
More updates: I took out the battery and went to the dealer to test it they said its ok. I checked again all the fuses even the 2 in the relay they are all good. Now I discover this noise watch the youtube movie to see . Where is that coming from ?
Basically when I plug in the key it make that initial "tic tic" noise and then when I take it out it make the other shooting noise... that must be where the problem is I think no ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okXLM6uR2TY&feature=youtu.be

What is next to check ?
 
I watched and listened, I don't know what's doing all that clicking sound either... it sounds like a relay opening and closing constantly. It isn't your fuel pump, I heard that run briefly right after you tried the starter so it's working ok.

I think you may have to take it on to the dealership and let them look/listen and see what they think. I have no more ideas, sorry. :-(

- Michael
 
Hey... you weren't pushing the Start/Stop button constantly during this video were you? If so, the starter relay would be making the "click-click" sound which indicates a bad starter relay! They're like ~$27 and you can replace it yourself in about 15 minutes or less.

It was just a thought I had this morning, that you might have been on the Start/Stop button constantly during the video... the initial "Chirp-Chirp" followed by a "Chirp" every 6 seconds or so is normal. The "click-click click-click-click click click-click" is not normal and sounds to my like a relay clicking away (ie. a bad starter relay, if you were pressing the Start/Stop button almost the entire video).

- Michael
 
No I was not pushing the start /stop button the whole time. Do you think thats the problem ? Sounds like a relay clicking to me to and then the shooting noise once I take out the key,... weird.

Do you have a part number I can call my dealer up... to find out if they have it in stock.
I woke up at 5:30am ..brought it to a mechanic and he is not even looking at it today .. what a jerk...i hate them so much man..oh.... but I have to depend on them. Soon I`ll my the cam doo scanner and I`ll try to avoid them as much as I can.. they treat u like s*it....

He's answer was hes busy with other..come on u can take 15-20 minutes to scan my jet..i dont want u to fix it on the spot..i want u to just look and tell me what u think the problem might be
 
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The starter relay only engages when you push the Start/Stop button. Otherwise it's disengaged and would not be making any clicking noises.

I don't know what it could be George, I've not seen nor read of anything like you're experiencing before. I'm afraid you're going to have to let the mechanic look at it and see what he says. Suxs, I know. Sorry. :-(

- Michael
 
alright went to my mechanic and he bypassed the relay with a tool and he showed me thats not the issue. He said its either the starter or the engine. it will cost me 6500$ for a new engine.

what should I do ?,
How long does it take for a mechanic to take the engine out of the jet ski like 3 hours ?
If I buy a used engine is a matter of taking the old one out and put the new one in or I have to do some computer programming ? do I need to change anything else besides the engine ? would a 2006 supercharged engine work on my 2008 GTX 215 limited ski ?
 
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To be honest I wouldnt think its the engine with that relay clicking. Just need to figure out what it is, I know on startup of the skis systems mine clicks some stuff over, just one click of course. Its not related to the TOPS system or anything like that is it.
 
George why does the mechanic think you need a new engine? Why does the mechanic even want to pull the engine out of the hull?

All that clicking that's going on is wrong, it shouldn't be doing that. That suggests an electrical problem, not a mechanical problem. You still need to have the supercharger rebuilt however if you don't know when it was last rebuilt (if ever!).

Did the mechanic start suggesting a new engine, or was it you asking him how much an entire new engine would cost? Without some evidence that the engine is shot-to-heck, there's no good reason for a good mechanic to start talking about an engine replacement at this point.

George re-reading your original post I notice you said you tried "giving it a boost"... uhmmm, what does that mean exactly? How did you give it a boost, and did you mention this to the mechanic? Boosting the electrical system can damage the MPEM module, you should never try boosting a SeaDoo off. However it sounds like your problem started before your boost effort.

ps. If you buy a used engine it really needs to be the for the same year/model watercraft. While the 4TEC engine case is pretty much the same across year models, the things that go into vary I wouldn't want to try to mix-n-match but I doubt your engine is toasted.

- Michael
 
cool guys thanks a lot again. I will not let him take the engine out and I`ll mention him I gave a boost after the problem started from my car's battery. For sure that noise is not right and I asked him what else is there to check. He said the starter and if thats not it the engine then... I ask him how he can be sure its the engine ..he said he doesnt know he has to take it out and open it up.. stupid mechanic..

I have an another appointment at a dealer in a week next Thursday lets hope those guys are better and wont charge me 100$ for nothing.

I really dont know what else to do. I bought already the starter relay paid like 60$ in Canada and I`ll change it once I have the ski back but left it to him to test that starter.. How is he going to test .. just take it out and see if its rotating when he press the start button ?
 
The starter isn't what's making the "click click click" sounds when you have the lanyard on the post. My 2006 RXT doesn't make the sounds yours is making George. The starter relay either works when the Start/Stop button is pressed, or it just makes a single "CLICK" and nothing else happens. If the starter actually engages and turns over, even for just a second, when the Start/Stop button is pressed then the starter and starter relay are functioning correctly IMO. Something else is cutting it off.

You can take a starter put it in a vice and ground the vice then put 12V power to the starter post and it'll either run (like any electric motor) or not. That's probably all the mechanic intends to do, remove it and see if it runs when hooked up directly to battery power or not. I suspect he'll find it runs just fine, though.

If this mechanic literrally told you "it's the starter or else you need a whole new engine", then he's a total idiot pay him for his time and pull the watercraft back home immediately George! You can buy a lake-ready good used 2005 or 2006 RXT with under 100 hrs for the cost of that whole new engine you were quoted, and have it by early next week (see Ebay listings, and local CraigsList listings... there's lots of low hours SeaDoo watercraft listed for sale every day).

- Michael
 
From watching the video I wanna say its a started that is drawing more that the battery can give, but if that's the case it wouldn't have just quit on you while running. It's definitely a weird issue but I'm almost positive that it isnt to your engine.

Is there anything else between the flywheel and pump that could seize up like a bearing on the driveshaft? I doubt there is one but maybe I'm wrong. If the pump is spinning freely and the engine isn't locked (by your video it doesn't sound locked) then its gotta be in between the 2 maybe?
 
George when the mechanic bypassed the relay (arc'ing across the posts with a large screwdriver or wrench at a guess) what did the engine do? Did it crank over then stop while he was still bypassing the relay or did he just hold it long enough to hear the engine crank over then stopped bypassing the relay?

Has the watercaft been used in saltwater? While I do not know what all those clicking noises are about, there are numerous things such as bad battery cables and corroded ground connection points which can cause the starter to not be able to start the engine.

May I also suggest pulling all 3 spark plugs out and seeing if the engine will turn over easily without the spark plugs in? This would tell us if there is anything jamming the engine internally preventing the starter from turning it over. Yeah I like that idea, either you or he needs to pull all the spark plugs out and verify if the starter will spin the engine over next IMHO! I'd be very interested to hear what that does, if there's anything in the engine or the cylinders locking the engine keeping it from spinning without spark plugs.

- Michael
 
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