Oil injection bypass

[500whp335i]

That is all I did, however my boat has gradually started smoking more and more through the summer but I don't think it's related to the bypass. I think I have injector or compression issues, the boat doesn't want to start in the water even though the idle is set to 1k rpm. I'm just trying to limp it along until fall so I can tear into it.

But as far as the injection goes, After doing premix, I'd never go back. As long as its getting oil, everything else is an easy fix.

ok cool i think im going to do this tomorrow... now the two hoses that go to the pump did you plug them? or just left them attached?

 

[Mayerichm]

All the hoses going to the pump I left attached. Originally I left the two hoses going to the 3gal tank also, but then I decided that would be a good spot for a second battery so I plugged them and zip tied them up out of the way.

 

[500whp335i]

All the hoses going to the pump I left attached. Originally I left the two hoses going to the 3gal tank also, but then I decided that would be a good spot for a second battery so I plugged them and zip tied them up out of the way.

Ok I'm going to do this tomorrow... Ill drain the fuel out so I can get a good idea how much to mix...

 

[500whp335i]

All the hoses going to the pump I left attached. Originally I left the two hoses going to the 3gal tank also, but then I decided that would be a good spot for a second battery so I plugged them and zip tied them up out of the way.

Ok I'm going to do this tomorrow... Ill drain the fuel out so I can get a good idea how much to mix...

 

[500whp335i]

Have you guys seen the amsoil marine 2 stroke oil? It's a synthetic and helps with smoking... I may give it a shot

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Use Amsoil Injector oil for 717 or smaller and Interceptor for 787 with rave valves

 

[500whp335i]

Idk what a 717 or 787 is? Rotax engines? Here's the link http://thebestoil.com/AMSOILSynthetic2CycleOils/Catalog_ProductDetails.aspx?id=1189

 

[Seadoobuddy]

587, 657 717, 787 and 951 are sizes of Rotax 2 stroke motors.

I would NOT use that oil. I believe it's made for 2 stroke outboards

 

[500whp335i]

anyone have a picture of the oil pump gear i need to take out? its location on the motor? 240 efi m2 jet drive..

 

[500whp335i]

is this where it is? one of the two lines coming from the remote oil tank goes to the bottom of the motor, the other one goes to the reserve tank and seems to be the vent... this is the only other place i can see the gear being..

 

[500whp335i]

ok so i guess this is what your talking about... you just take that small worm shaft?

 

[Dr Honda]

No.


Remove the pump... and then reach into the engine, and remove the gear/shaft that is driving the pump.

#38 in the link below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/M... 0E406399/Oil Injection Components/parts.html

 

[Mayerichm]

When you take off the pump it's difficult to get the shaft out, I used a magnet and it couldn't have worked better.

 

[500whp335i]

No.


Remove the pump... and then reach into the engine, and remove the gear/shaft that is driving the pump.

#38 in the link below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/M... 0E406399/Oil Injection Components/parts.html

When you take off the pump it's difficult to get the shaft out, I used a magnet and it couldn't have worked better.

Ok excellent thanks guys... I'll give it a shot tomorrow I was pissed off today and didn't feel like working on anything

 

[challenger01]

500whp335,

If you do the block off can you please shoot some pics to post to this thread.

It would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck,
Brian

 

[500whp335i]

When you take off the pump it's difficult to get the shaft out, I used a magnet and it couldn't have worked better.

so you just used the expandable magnet tool and wiggled the shaft out? the magnet was strong enough?

 

[Dr Honda]

That gear should just slide out, as long as the bushings are in good shape. There really isn't anything holding it in. It's captured between the inner bushing, and the pump. You can grab it with thin needle nose pliers, and it will roll a little, as it pulls out.

 

[500whp335i]

Here are some pics, turned out to be very easy... i left the brass guide out when i re-installed the pump... so i should just mix the quicksilver s stroke oil in at 50:1? any other recommendations of oil?

 

[buckeye_paul]

Warning!!!

I spent a lot of time researching and asking questions here and in other forums before I removed my oil injection. There was one major issue that everyone stressed. You can't remove the driven gear without replacing it with the block off plug.

This was posted by "way2slow on H2O" to the Texas Fishing Forum:

"The plastic shaft also takes up space, or stuffs the void where the steel shaft was. If the void is left open (blank plate used instead of plastic shaft) that cylinder becomes lazy due to increased crankcase volumn and as mentioned, the brass bushing can work it's way out and cause major destruction.

Here's what I've learned about oil injection after working on outboards since 1982:

At idle the fuel is mixed at 100:1 right into the bowl on the carb or into the VST on an EFI. This is great when at idle but by the time the motor gets up to 6k it needs 50:1 and it ain't there. The pistons are right on the verge of gaulding when the oil mix gets to 50:1. How many times can a motor endure this kind of abuse before it fails? Who drives like a grandpa? No one I know. Mercury Engineering gets a big fat "FAIL" for that one.

2nd note while we're on the subject of oil injection, the plastic/nylon (not sure of spelling of actual material used so we'll go with that) gear used on the crankshaft is not the guilty culprit when a failure occurs. You automatically assume it is when you see the gear damaged, but in reality it's the brass bushing that causes the train crash. The brass swells from excess heat (several things cause this) and binds on the steel shaft which in turns slows the shaft down and puts a greater pressure on the nylon gear causing shearing of the nylon. Mercury Engineering chose to use a nylon gear to prevent internal damage should a steel gear fail.... and when the nylon gear fails it causes what, slight damage??? "


Check out the first post of this thread. I gave a detailed description of what I did and also provided part numbers. I got everything for under 20 bucks. For some reason this thread went into left field.

Peace

 

[Dr Honda]

You are right about the failure point. Basically if you overheat the engine... the bushings get tight on the shaft, and eat the pump gear. Personally... I think it shoudl be like the 800 Rotax engine, and be mounted on the flywheel cover, and be direct driven. Also... since it's "External"... heat is no longer an issue... and you can see/service the system.

I'm not a fan on the way it mixes... but every variable oil system has a delay in the oil being injected. So... at face value, it's not good... but when was the last time you heard of an engine actually failing because of lack of oil in the transition? Personally... I never have. Without a doubt... they could last longer on pre-mix... but you will burn a lot of extra oil, and have smoke in a long no-wake zone. But then again... the 2-strokes would last even longer if we burnt better oil. (lol)

Finally... I understand about the block-off rod... but the case volume story is a bunch of HOOEY !! The volume of all the sections of that engine aren't the same from he factory. #4 is HUGE. Basically, it include the volume of one of the center bearings. Also... #2 is big just because of all the open space from the drive gear unit... and the top/center bearing. In comparison... 1,3,5, and 6 have smaller volumes. With that said... I guess the inner bushing could come out. I didn't try to remove it... but it made it though a couple machining sessions, and multiple cleanings without falling out. Regardless... it would be a good idea to capture/trap it.


Yes... in a PURE engineering standpoint... everything in Paul's post is correct. But... in real life... we can get away with some fudging of the numbers.

Just an FYI... The new gear is a glass filled nylon, where the original gear was a thermoplastic of some kind.

 

[go-hokies]

Agee with Buckeye.. I also bypassed and used the block off plug that I purchased using his info... He is the procedure I followed as well as repost of part numbers. The block off plug is a cover plate as well as long shaft to fill the void.


Here is a brief summary of bypass ( sorry no pics as it was hot and i was dripping wet just to get this done today:

1) Remove oil pump - 2 screws and a connector arm to throttle
2) Loosen 3 bolts on fuel pump as shaft and busing will not come out. ( pump does not have to come off, just loosen and you may want to do this as step one as it makes the rear screw in oil pump easier to get to )
3) Plug off two oil lines ( i used 2 bolts and wire ties ,holing up well with no leaks)
4) remove shaft / gear bushing.

5) Install plug and o ring, secure in place with 2 screws.
6) remove and plug crankcase hose / also install plug in engine block where crankcase hose was..
7) (optional) I replaced the fuel filter , filled with 50:1)
8) purge non 50:1 fuel out of system ( lines and fuel rail , just to be on the safe side , just removed fuel line after pump and turned the key on and off several times till has plenty of mix out of the line.


Here are the part numbers... ( same as used in another thread by buckeye_paul --- Thanks)
Qty 1 of 43453 Plastic Plug (block off "plug" cover plate with "shaft" to fill the void left by removing shaft)
Qty 1 of 22-73379 Plug (crankcase pressure to main oil tank)
Qty 2 of 10-41506 Screw (for block off plug)
Qty 1 of 25-32509 or 32509 O ring (for block off plug)

Have gone thru about 4 tanks of fuel and could not be happier with decision..


Mike

 

[500whp335i]

Agee with Buckeye.. I also bypassed and used the block off plug that I purchased using his info... He is the procedure I followed as well as repost of part numbers. The block off plug is a cover plate as well as long shaft to fill the void.


Here is a brief summary of bypass ( sorry no pics as it was hot and i was dripping wet just to get this done today:

1) Remove oil pump - 2 screws and a connector arm to throttle
2) Loosen 3 bolts on fuel pump as shaft and busing will not come out. ( pump does not have to come off, just loosen and you may want to do this as step one as it makes the rear screw in oil pump easier to get to )
3) Plug off two oil lines ( i used 2 bolts and wire ties ,holing up well with no leaks)
4) remove shaft / gear bushing.

5) Install plug and o ring, secure in place with 2 screws.
6) remove and plug crankcase hose / also install plug in engine block where crankcase hose was..
7) (optional) I replaced the fuel filter , filled with 50:1)
8) purge non 50:1 fuel out of system ( lines and fuel rail , just to be on the safe side , just removed fuel line after pump and turned the key on and off several times till has plenty of mix out of the line.


Here are the part numbers... ( same as used in another thread by buckeye_paul --- Thanks)
Qty 1 of 43453 Plastic Plug (block off "plug" cover plate with "shaft" to fill the void left by removing shaft)
Qty 1 of 22-73379 Plug (crankcase pressure to main oil tank)
Qty 2 of 10-41506 Screw (for block off plug)
Qty 1 of 25-32509 or 32509 O ring (for block off plug)

Have gone thru about 4 tanks of fuel and could not be happier with decision..


Mike

Thats a great write up... just curious what oil are you using to premix?

 

[500whp335i]

for 19 bucks shipped i guess ill install the plug for safety sake :thumbsup:

 

[go-hokies]

for 19 bucks shipped i guess ill install the plug for safety sake :thumbsup:

Yes... My other thought was, especially after receiving the "plug" , was they must have designed this in this manner for a reason. In theory, if not important, they could have used just stamped a metal cover plate, yet they took the time to design and build an injection mold for this "plug".

Should of taken some pictures, but it was hot. As stated before, the "plug" is a flange / shaft molded into one piece.

In terms of oil, I am using Premium Plus. The previous owner had used that as well, but in a pinch he used Premium.

Saw the discussion about Amsoil, but sticking with Quicksilver. Mainly becuase i can get it easily at Walmart which is about 1 mile from where I work. ( roughly $29 per gallon )

Mike

 

[500whp335i]

I picked up west marines 2 stroke oil, it met the standards of quick silver and was 15 bucks... I'm gonna switch to a better oil tho lol