needforspeed
New Member
:reddevil:Where does the oil block off plate go on yellow 587 engine? And where can I get one? Thanks
-
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
oil block off plate far an early 587
- Thread starter needforspeed
- Start date
- Status
Block off....
The oil pump sits directly under the carb. If you take a mirror and cock it sideways, under the carb, you should see it. It'll have a short cable on it attached to a cam.
Why do you want a block off plate? You can remove the pump, take out the shaft, put the pump back on and accomplish the same thing. :cheers:
The oil pump sits directly under the carb. If you take a mirror and cock it sideways, under the carb, you should see it. It'll have a short cable on it attached to a cam.
Why do you want a block off plate? You can remove the pump, take out the shaft, put the pump back on and accomplish the same thing. :cheers:
needforspeed
New Member
the engine is out. Who ever owned these things before just had a bolt in the oil tube. there was oil all in the hull and it was leaking out of the engine when I took it out. I just want to pre mix as I don't want to put all this work into the engine and have to worry about weather the oil pump is good or not. Just a prefrence. I really don't know the history of the skis. I was told they were never run in salt water. I did not believe it when I bought them but I do believe it now that I was able to see the cooling water jakets and they were pretty clean. I have seen what salt water can do to an engine and these engines were not even close to looking like they had been in salt water. The worst thing about these engines are whoever worked on them over the years didn't put the correct fastners back and there is a mismatch of hex and regular head bolts. :rant: I guess what i am saying, if it is going to be done (oil blocked off) I want it done the right way. So if you are saying to just remove the oil gear that drives the pump then I will do that.
Last edited by a moderator:
Oil block off....
If they simply took off the oil hose and put a bolt in it, this will not suffice. You'll need to ensure the oil pump is disengaged from the engine by removing the pump shaft. You can remove the oil supply line, put a plug of some type in it then, re-attach it to the tank. This will prevent oil from going to the pump but leave all the lines on to keep oil leaks at bay.
You must leave the oil supply and vent for the rotary shaft. The premix will lubricate the rotary valve. There is a connection for oil injection into the plate on the left side of the oil pump. You should be able to see it. If they removed this line from the oil pump, this can drip oil into the hull as the engine is running.
I agree with you about pre-mix for this old an engine. As for salt? The easiest way to identify use in salt water is calcium chloride deposits. It leaches out of the salt water and clings to the metal surfaces when heated by the engine. You'll see a white powdery build up or inside the engine, a white, scaly build up........:cheers:
If they simply took off the oil hose and put a bolt in it, this will not suffice. You'll need to ensure the oil pump is disengaged from the engine by removing the pump shaft. You can remove the oil supply line, put a plug of some type in it then, re-attach it to the tank. This will prevent oil from going to the pump but leave all the lines on to keep oil leaks at bay.
You must leave the oil supply and vent for the rotary shaft. The premix will lubricate the rotary valve. There is a connection for oil injection into the plate on the left side of the oil pump. You should be able to see it. If they removed this line from the oil pump, this can drip oil into the hull as the engine is running.
I agree with you about pre-mix for this old an engine. As for salt? The easiest way to identify use in salt water is calcium chloride deposits. It leaches out of the salt water and clings to the metal surfaces when heated by the engine. You'll see a white powdery build up or inside the engine, a white, scaly build up........:cheers:
Last edited by a moderator:
needforspeed
New Member
yeah As for the salt or calcium build up...nothing there so they are good that way. I just want to disconnect the oil and pre mix it. The engines are out and I need to just make sure I do it right. I would like to try and have a clean bilge once the engines go back in. NO Leaks. So I thought there is a oil block off kit. Like I said I just want to do it the correct way. If I have to dismantle the oil injection pump from inside, that is no biggie as everything is getting torn down anyway. I just need to know the best way to dismantle the oil injection. I know some quads or snowmobile have oil block off plates or kits and I assumed it would be the same for a seadoo. I always thought two strokes were two strokes until I ran into these things. They are a different breed. For the most part the principle is the same but there just seems to be extra stuff on this rotax engine. Why a rotary valve? why not reeds? I don't know. But as they are older boats, I want to rebuild everything, from the crank up, new starters and all new hoses and clamps. Rebuild the carbs, new fuel valves and all new ignition parts coil & cdi. Then I will feel that they are reliable and I will feel comfortable as I have gone over the whole boat. I will also inspect the pumps and wear rings and impellers. Then they SHOULD be good to go. I know they are not as fast as the newer ones, but I don't have 10000 bucks for 1 new one. So these old girls will be rebuild and I will have two boats and a trailer for under 2 grand or so. I don't know stuff is starting to add up but the project has bugun so nothing that I didn't expect.
needforspeed
New Member
How hot will these exhausts get? I know I have cooling water going thru so I know they will get hot but how hot? I am asking because I am bead blasting all the exhaust parts this week. The tune pipe the manifold and the water jacket housing all get bead blasted and then painted. I was going to use a ceramic header paint but all I can find is a dull finish with a heat range of 1200 degrees to 2500 degrees. I am fine with the heat range but I was hoping for a shinier finish so when I lift the seat I have a gleaming engine. Back in 88 I had a kawasaki JS 550 with a high compression head and a water box and a shiny K & N filter. It wasn't much but it LOOKED like something
.
.timmyboy76
New Member
ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-...50169157394QQptZPersonalQ5fWatercraftQ5fParts
not sure on paint or beed blast'n, but go easy around the "bungs" on the pipes. What the used to plug them, they're real thin material. Just had mined tig-welded up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-...50169157394QQptZPersonalQ5fWatercraftQ5fParts
not sure on paint or beed blast'n, but go easy around the "bungs" on the pipes. What the used to plug them, they're real thin material. Just had mined tig-welded up.
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
needforspeed
New Member
yeah these pipes are 20 odd years old but not ran in salt water. So I will bead balst them up and paint them. There is more variety in the 500 degree paint. But I don't know how hot these pipes get. Anybody?
Last edited by a moderator:
needforspeed
New Member
And another thing!
:rant:
Is the yellow motor a 587? I go on ebay and I see stuff for a 581 or a 580. But I am pretty sure the shop manual says 587. Just wanted to check. I was pretty sure it was a 587.
:rant:
Is the yellow motor a 587? I go on ebay and I see stuff for a 581 or a 580. But I am pretty sure the shop manual says 587. Just wanted to check. I was pretty sure it was a 587.
timmyboy76
New Member
yah..its a 587,...
toothfairy6@aol.com
New Member
Why i here it both ways
Some say take both hoses off the oil tank put both of those together with a fitting.others say leave the line going to the top of the pre mix tank on. So it can get air and to leave some oil in the tank. Some say put a gear oil into it if your pre mixing. And that will work better for the lubing of the bottom half of the motor.which is it.
Some say take both hoses off the oil tank put both of those together with a fitting.others say leave the line going to the top of the pre mix tank on. So it can get air and to leave some oil in the tank. Some say put a gear oil into it if your pre mixing. And that will work better for the lubing of the bottom half of the motor.which is it.
needforspeed
New Member
I was hoping to just block everything off all together and let the premix lube everything. I just don't want any extra air getting sucked into an open port that will lean out my new engine!!!!! I an just looking for the "right" way to do it.
needforspeed
New Member
it is funny you mention "gear oil" because when I ripped the engines out, in the oil tank there was a yellow/goldish looking oil and it was thick like a gear oil. But all the hoses had bolts in them with a hose clamp on it to keep it from leaking. I thought it was odd because most two stroke oil is greenish blue. I do run cator 927 in my banshee it is a gold color. I don't know what color the bombadier oil is. Any way somebody please chime in on the correct way to dismantle the oil injection on a 587 yellow engine and the correct set up for premix.
thanks
Last edited by a moderator:
Seems you got a good answer, here with timmyboys post. The price on the block off plate is a good deal.
The problem with the oil your seeing could be in the oil they are using in your tank. There should not be any gear oil in the tank or rotary valve. The gear oil would cause to much friction and resistance to the worm gear of the rotary. Yeah, you'd see the gear oil in these types of applications but I doubt that you find it in an engine running 7000k rpm.
As for the rotary verses reeds?......the Rotax corporation was formed in 1922 in Germany. If you are familar with the reliability of the German engineering, then you know they built the toughest tools in the world. The Rotax engines are used in all types of applications like airplanes, snowmobiles, motorcycles, .....and Seadoo's.
Personally, I like the rotary better because reeds are more likely to bow, causing them to loose vacuum.
Last edited by a moderator:
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
robin savell lloyd
Active Member
Like allway's good Info Louis Thank you I did not know that [the Rotax corporation was forned in 1922 in Germany] :hurray:
needforspeed
New Member
that is interesting information, 1922 wow! I am not disputing the reliability of the rotary engine. I am well aware of the different applications of them. I personally have had many reed engines and never once had a reed fail. (Although I have heard of them breaking) On the other hand, would I fly an airplane with a reed engine verses a rotary angine? I really don't know. I was just saying that this is the first rotary engine I have worked on and there is some extra stuff to think about. So in closing, If I remove the oil shaft and the oil pump and install a block off plate, I can then just remove the enitre oil tank and hoses? Correct? The pumps were all ready removed before I ever set my eyes on these crafts. I think there are homade oil block off plates on there.
Last edited by a moderator:
No...oil tank on!
No, you'll need to leave the oil tank on because of the chamber that the rotary gear is in. This is the worm gear that attaches to the crank. I've seen where some just loop the vent and inlet together. I do not recommend this because like all engines, when oil gets hot, it expands. There is no expansion. Also, oil creates a vapor when it's heated, this vent provides that venting without putting pressure on your seals.
I also do not recommend a gear oil bath because of the viscosity. I suggest you leave the tank on. You will not have to put any oil in it but the necessary amount for the rotary chamber. You'll never have to refill it, unless the seals start to leak by just a bit. Then, you'll know you have a potential failure to the rotary gear crank seals........:cheers:
No, you'll need to leave the oil tank on because of the chamber that the rotary gear is in. This is the worm gear that attaches to the crank. I've seen where some just loop the vent and inlet together. I do not recommend this because like all engines, when oil gets hot, it expands. There is no expansion. Also, oil creates a vapor when it's heated, this vent provides that venting without putting pressure on your seals.
I also do not recommend a gear oil bath because of the viscosity. I suggest you leave the tank on. You will not have to put any oil in it but the necessary amount for the rotary chamber. You'll never have to refill it, unless the seals start to leak by just a bit. Then, you'll know you have a potential failure to the rotary gear crank seals........:cheers:
needforspeed
New Member
ok. so you are saying, that even though there is no oil pump, that I will have to hook the tank hoses up and put oil in the tank? Then I will have succesfully turned the craft into a premix watercraft.just enough oil to cover both hoses going to the tank?
needforspeed
New Member
hey snipe?
You said in another post that you had to work a shutdown? What kind of plant do you work at? Are you in a refinery like I am? Just wondering.
You said in another post that you had to work a shutdown? What kind of plant do you work at? Are you in a refinery like I am? Just wondering.
needforspeed
New Member
I understand now.
I saw the crank case opened today and I understand why there still needs to be oil in the tank. There is a little "pool" for the worm gear that drives the rotary valve. I also see how that oil could get hot and create the vapors that could make pressure & blow out the crank seals. So I now know that I will have to hook up the hoses from the oil tank to vent the expanded gasses and to insure that little oil "bath" is full. I was a little confused when Snipe explained. Now that I saw it with the cases open I grasp the concept. I am more of a visual person.
Thanks Snipe!
I saw the crank case opened today and I understand why there still needs to be oil in the tank. There is a little "pool" for the worm gear that drives the rotary valve. I also see how that oil could get hot and create the vapors that could make pressure & blow out the crank seals. So I now know that I will have to hook up the hoses from the oil tank to vent the expanded gasses and to insure that little oil "bath" is full. I was a little confused when Snipe explained. Now that I saw it with the cases open I grasp the concept. I am more of a visual person.
Thanks Snipe!
- Status
