Hydolocked with oil?

[Guest_User]

I'm glad this got back on topic.... I would sure hate to see another "oil" thread! :facepalm: :lol:

I learned something in this thread!:cheers:

 

[MEDOO]

Have the battery load tested. If it us good then I would agree that your starter is bad.

If so, and if it is an OEM starter, rebuild it. Used OEM is better than new aftermarket.

Well I guess I'm still learning the hard way, pretty sure its a oem starter... An SBT starter will be here Friday, hope those are ok. I will rebuild the oem starter this winter and prolly swap it out later, I gotta get this thing fogged this weekend, it's starting to cool off here.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Well I guess I'm still learning the hard way, pretty sure its a oem starter... An SBT starter will be here Friday, hope those are ok. I will rebuild the oem starter this winter and prolly swap it out later, I gotta get this thing fogged this weekend, it's starting to cool off here.

SBT is really no better from all that I have read, that said,,, it will certainly do what you need in regards to getting it winterized.

And did you load test the battery?

 

[LouDoo]

The old oils have been made for a very long time... and I'm sure BRP doesn't care about the old engines. So, where my issues are... I'm sure there was ZERO testing to find if the oils were compatible, or the effects on the RAVE's.

I've been loyal to XPS, and I get a good price local... but since I'm being forced to switch oils... I guess I'll buy the stuff from wal-mart now. (Quicksilver PWC)


Or........


I'll sell both of my 2-strokes next spring, and buy a spark.






OK... not to get too far off subject... but I wonder if the Synth base in the Red-Line oil caused the center seals to leak??? I remember, back in the day... the real synth oils would show you all your weak seals, via oil leaks. I'm not saying it caused the leak... but if it's thinner (on the molecular level) it will get past a warn seal.

Tony,

You are one if not the most respected members of this forum, and you certainly have my respect. BUT I think you are over-reacting on SeaDoo changing the vendor for XPSII. I don't want to hi-jack this thread so I will start another dreaded oil thread. Now where did I see that cat?

Lou

 

[Guest_User]

SBT is really no better from all that I have read, that said,,, it will certainly do what you need in regards to getting it winterized.

And did you load test the battery?

Can`t be to sure about that joe, I`m running 2 SBT starters this season, and they do the job just fine...
I think they might have changed vendors since all those complaints, and 99% of that is user error...:facepalm:

 

[MEDOO]

SBT is really no better from all that I have read, that said,,, it will certainly do what you need in regards to getting it winterized.

And did you load test the battery?

Actally I load tested the year old battery at Oreilys the day before you recommended it and tested good. So I have been burnt a time or 2with the load testers at the autoparts stores. I bought a new 575 amp battery anyway(the guy thought I was nuts) , making sure to eliminate the battery. I top that battery off to 100% according to my Diehard charger.. I'll slap that starter in this Friday or Saturday and report back.

 

[MEDOO]

Can`t be to sure about that joe, I`m running 2 SBT starters this season, and they do the job just fine...
I think they might have changed vendors since all those complaints, and 99% of that is user error...:facepalm:

What type of user error did you see? I don't want any user error here...

 

[Coastiejoe]

Can`t be to sure about that joe, I`m running 2 SBT starters this season, and they do the job just fine...
I think they might have changed vendors since all those complaints, and 99% of that is user error...:facepalm:

If they changed vendors and improved the quality, then that is a good thing.

In the past, the SBT starters were better than most other aftermarkets but not as good as OEM.

It would be interesting to find out for sure if they have made a change...

 

[Guest_User]

What type of user error did you see? I don't want any user error here...

poor grounds, loose cables, poor cable condition, corrosion between the terminal ring and wire.

make sure all your bolts are clean and the surface is clean so it makes good contact for a proper ground.


make sure to follow the cables into the solenoid/coil tower, and make sure those connections are clean and corrosion/rust free.

 

[Dr Honda]

Well I guess I'm still learning the hard way, pretty sure its a oem starter... An SBT starter will be here Friday, hope those are ok. I will rebuild the oem starter this winter and prolly swap it out later, I gotta get this thing fogged this weekend, it's starting to cool off here.

As above.... they aren't any better than the other imports. You can get a good one, or you can get a bad one. Regardless... they don't live long. I would take the OEM apart, clean it, and install new brushes. 99% of the time, that's all they need, and they will run another 15 years.

Tony,

You are one if not the most respected members of this forum, and you certainly have my respect. BUT I think you are over-reacting on SeaDoo changing the vendor for XPSII. I don't want to hi-jack this thread so I will start another dreaded oil thread. Now where did I see that cat?

Lou

Lou... you don't have to pad the blow for me. Just say.... "GEEEZZZ, shut up about the oils !!" (LOL)

Don't get me wrong... I'm sure the new oil is OK. But, I like to choose my oils, and if they changed vendors... I'm looking elsewhere. I wonder if the black bottle changed too??

 

[Guest_User]

no soup for you Lou!!! :rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svSGKJFSl-8

 

[MEDOO]

I have a question for you guys. If the crank seal is leaking oil into the motor, wouldn't it fill up the crank case as well as the cylinder? Or just the crank case and then it gets sent into the cylinder when cranking or running until it flushed out?

And if it sat long enough would it seep out somewhere into the bulge?

 

[kicker]

It will fill the crankcase first, once that is full then is will work up the side walls of the cylinders. Dont know for sure........... but I would think that the oil tank will be empty before the cylinders fill up.

So your right, the compression of the motor will send the oil from the case up to the cylinder while it is cranking over on the starter or running.
Unless you have a leaky external seal it will not leak out of the case into the bilge. Unless it reaches the carbs, which I doubt cause the oil tank is lower then the carbs.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... what he said.


It's a 2-stroke... so whatever is down in the crank, will go into the top of the Cyl, when you try to start it. The lock up, and an oily mess can be had with as little as 3 or 4 oz of oil.

 

[kicker]

I am having the same problem, all summer, but maybe not to the extent that your experiencing. If i forget to pinch the lines this is what happens.

 

[MEDOO]

It makes sense now. The last 2 times I took it out it smoked like the dickens at startup on the ramp, continued for several minutes, then it cleared up for the rest of the day. Crankcase with some extra oil in it, eh... Then I put it up for a couple of months and oil leak similar to the above picture. I figured it was a hose leak, was going to mess with that next...

I think my starter was going out and finally gave up while I was messing with this. It may not have been hydrolocked, just a bad starter the whole time.

 

[MEDOO]

Well the SBT starter came in, installed it, finished clearing out the cylinder and she started.
I did order the oem brush kit to rebuild the oem starter.

Now to figure out how bad this oil leak is.

 

[MEDOO]

We had a warm weekend so we took the boat out and checked out the oil leak. Started fine and ran fine, alittle excessive smoke til good and warmed up. Left the oil lines unclamped over Saturday night and it started right up Sunday, a little smoke but no hydrolock. Ran it most of the day Sunday no problems. I guess I just need to clamp the oil lines after a weekend of using it.

Other than pulling the motor and repairing the seal, I can always block off the oil system and premix the gas. Since this boat is so old I have been thinking about doing that anyway. I read that SBT recommends that. Anyway it looks like she will be ok. Thanks for your help!!

 

[kicker]

Good to hear that it is running well. If the injection is working I would not go premix, even with premix the oil tank and line going to the RV shaft need to stay in there.
I have never heard of anyone have a mechanical failure with the pumps.

 

[jkur10a]

The old oils have been made for a very long time... and I'm sure BRP doesn't care about the old engines. So, where my issues are... I'm sure there was ZERO testing to find if the oils were compatible, or the effects on the RAVE's.

....

OK... not to get too far off subject... but I wonder if the Synth base in the Red-Line oil caused the center seals to leak??? I remember, back in the day... the real synth oils would show you all your weak seals, via oil leaks. I'm not saying it caused the leak... but if it's thinner (on the molecular level) it will get past a warn seal.

@DrHonda - I wonder if there is any truth to this? I just purchased a 1999 Seadoo Challenger (From the original owner), with both motors that appear to have bad crank seals. He claims he never had any issue with the crank seals until the new XPS-II oil was added to the boat which was over the last year or so. He used XPS-II from the day he bought the boat back in 1999. He noticed this spring that the both motors were full of oil, and the last gallon or two he added was the new red stuff (Verified by what is coming out of the spark plug holes and what little was left in the oil tank). Seems a little strange and coincidental to have both crank seals to go bad at the exact same time shortly after switching to the "new" XPS-II oil.

I don't want to get this topic to far off, because I am (as several others in this thread) are in the same "boat" with bad crank seals. I still have to get a little more oil out of the motors before I can get them running. I've done a lot of reading, but haven't found a clear answer so maybe I can get that answered here. Is there a clear way to tell whether or not the issue is the Crank seal, or the Rotary Shaft Seal?

Maybe a self-explanatory question, but should I pinch off the oil line while I am trying to crank out the oil to prevent more oil from going in, or do I want to keep that flowing to make sure everything keeps getting oil (even though there is plenty in there now!)? For those who have purchase a valve for the oil line(s), what did you end up using?

Thanks!

 

[Stevego]

I installed a shut off valve on my oil lines and pull the spark plug cables as a reminder to turn the oil on when I plug them back in. However a local Seadoo mechanic I met last weekend told me that frequently it is the Oil line check valves that fail and allow oil to fill to the cylinders. Apparently there is a spring loaded ball that will fail over time (spring loses tension) and allows oil to bypass the valve. Anyone else heard of this? I would sure like to resolve my issue if it is that simple..... I assume there is one valve per cylinder if that is the case?

 

[Dr Honda]

@DrHonda - I wonder if there is any truth to this? I just purchased a 1999 Seadoo Challenger (From the original owner), with both motors that appear to have bad crank seals. He claims he never had any issue with the crank seals until the new XPS-II oil was added to the boat which was over the last year or so. He used XPS-II from the day he bought the boat back in 1999. He noticed this spring that the both motors were full of oil, and the last gallon or two he added was the new red stuff (Verified by what is coming out of the spark plug holes and what little was left in the oil tank). Seems a little strange and coincidental to have both crank seals to go bad at the exact same time shortly after switching to the "new" XPS-II oil.

I don't want to get this topic to far off, because I am (as several others in this thread) are in the same "boat" with bad crank seals. I still have to get a little more oil out of the motors before I can get them running. I've done a lot of reading, but haven't found a clear answer so maybe I can get that answered here. Is there a clear way to tell whether or not the issue is the Crank seal, or the Rotary Shaft Seal?

Maybe a self-explanatory question, but should I pinch off the oil line while I am trying to crank out the oil to prevent more oil from going in, or do I want to keep that flowing to make sure everything keeps getting oil (even though there is plenty in there now!)? For those who have purchase a valve for the oil line(s), what did you end up using?

Thanks!

Hummmmmm....


Interesting. I never like to change 2-stroke oil brands, and knowing seadoo... they really don't care about the older (non-supported) engines. So... even though I would like to say the oils are compatible... they may not be. I personally still had a stash of the old oil, and I really haven't used my skis much this year. And as I said late last year... I won't keep burning BRP oils since they changed manufactures. (I'll be moving to QuickSilver PWC)

But, this can all be coincidence also. If they are the original engines... they could have just finally failed. And, generally... on the twin engine boats... boat engines give up at the same time.

The more think about this... the more I think that I need to swap out my two 2-stroke skis, for a spark.

I installed a shut off valve on my oil lines and pull the spark plug cables as a reminder to turn the oil on when I plug them back in. However a local Seadoo mechanic I met last weekend told me that frequently it is the Oil line check valves that fail and allow oil to fill to the cylinders. Apparently there is a spring loaded ball that will fail over time (spring loses tension) and allows oil to bypass the valve. Anyone else heard of this? I would sure like to resolve my issue if it is that simple..... I assume there is one valve per cylinder if that is the case?

Well... this just goes back to one of my other sayings... but I digress.

Anyway... your "Seadoo" mechanic obviously hasn't ever worked on a 2-stroke seadoo before. There aren't any check valves in the oil system. There is only a filter on the feed hose of the injection pump. The bath for the RV gears is just that. A BATH. The housing is kept full via the oil in the tank.

And... even if there was a check vlalve in the system... it wouldn't stop the flow in, since that's the direction it should be going.

 

[Stevego]

Thanks Dr. The way I understood it is that it limits the amount of oil going into the RV. If it is failing it allows oil to enter at a higher rate. Not saying he is right or wrong, it was the first time I heard of this also.... It is allegedly located right where the oil line enters the block. I have not had a chance to verify this myself hence why I'm asking the question if it really exists?

 

[Guest_User]

maybe the mechanic was referring to the oil injection nipples in the RV cover leaking down and siphoning the oil lines from the pump...just saying...

 

[MEDOO]

Is there anyway for oil to enter the motor from the RV?