HELP 2 Second Beep, 2 Second Pause 2000 Challenger 14.5' Boat Twin 717, NO START

[Danosll]

With the mpem having been replaced in 2013 tells you two things .. That is the reason there was no info programmed to it . And that the swap wasn't preformed by brp dealer. Faint sound from beeper seems to indicate an open ground possibly with the module up front under visor. When your issue presents itself do your gauges work? Blower? Or bilge pump. Try cooling module up front as suggested by waterluvr

 

[8675-30-9]

I must have missed that module thing....I have removed the basket and looked inside the steering cover and see nothing of the sorts. Where is it located exactly? And what does it look like?

Yes everything works in those considerations.

With the mpem having been replaced in 2013 tells you two things .. That is the reason there was no info programmed to it . And that the swap wasn't preformed by brp dealer. Faint sound from beeper seems to indicate an open ground possibly with the module up front under visor. When your issue presents itself do your gauges work? Blower? Or bilge pump. Try cooling module up front as suggested by waterluvr

 

[Danosll]

If everything works doubt it is front module . But you may as well illimitate it. It is however behind storage tray below steering control. U must remove storage tray to access it. It holds the accessory fuses.

 

[Waterluvr]

Okay, I tested the DESS over 2 seperate days per the above and surprise surprise, no change all is working within the tolerances specified at both temperature ranges 95 deg (boat does not start) and 65 deg (boat starts)......I also realized while I was in there that the MPEM was replaced in 2013......MPEM toasted boyz?

Also, have not heard back from the PSI guys, however it is the weekend so lets see what Monday brings....

I'm not convinced the reed switch in the DESS post and or the wiring harness and connectors isn't at fault here, I agree with Danosll something is not breaking path to ground where and when it should.

When you tested the Dess post wiring with the lanyard removed, what was the ohm reading between the black and black/yellow wires? Were you getting an infinite open circuit reading or was the meter sensing continuity?

 

[Danosll]

use a strong magnet over post unplug oil tank wires . Oil Light and gauges should work . Ohm meter test is best. Run a ground from a good known ground source or straight from battery. And individually test each ground .while issue is present either with meter. Or just ground directly

 

[8675-30-9]

There in no continuity at all in this measurement it is an open circuit. Here are the test results:

Lanyard removed
blk to blk/ylw - open circuit
Wht/gry to post - .4 to .5 ohm
Blk to post ring - .6 to .7 ohm

Lanyard on
Blk to blk/ylw - .4 to .6 ohm

These did not change in either temperature range.

I'm not convinced the reed switch in the DESS post and or the wiring harness and connectors isn't at fault here, I agree with Danosll something is not breaking path to ground where and when it should.

When you tested the Dess post wiring with the lanyard removed, what was the ohm reading between the black and black/yellow wires? Were you getting an infinite open circuit reading or was the meter sensing continuity?

 

[Waterluvr]

There in no continuity at all in this measurement it is an open circuit. Here are the test results:

Lanyard removed
blk to blk/ylw - open circuit
Wht/gry to post - .4 to .5 ohm
Blk to post ring - .6 to .7 ohm

Lanyard on
Blk to blk/ylw - .4 to .6 ohm

These did not change in either temperature range.

That looks good, now you need a jumper lead with clips to extend the reach of the ground lead on your meter and follow that harness back to the MPEM and keep testing. You want to be able to verify that doesn't change all the way past the receptor side of the harness plug.

When something changes your at or past the point of the problem in the circuit. You need a meter that will zero the ohm function when the added length of the ground extension is added, in fact you'd want to conduct the original test for baseline readings with the extension in place.

 

[8675-30-9]

My test numbers stated already take the wiring back to the plug on the MPEM. All is good here as well. That's why I say the MPEM is toasted?

That looks good, now you need a jumper lead with clips to extend the reach of the ground lead on your meter and follow that harness back to the MPEM and keep testing. You want to be able to verify that doesn't change all the way past the receptor side of the harness plug.

When something changes your at or past the point of the problem in the circuit. You need a meter that will zero the ohm function when the added length of the ground extension is added, in fact you'd want to conduct the original test for baseline readings with the extension in place.

 

[Waterluvr]

My test numbers stated already take the wiring back to the plug on the MPEM. All is good here as well. That's why I say the MPEM is toasted?

Agreed at that point testing directly into the mpem that is the case. The only thing I would do over and above that is to try another programmed key.

One of those Can Doo programmers for home use sure would be handy to have for situations like these just to identify, program and remove keys and or see if there's some issue with it communicating to that side of the MPEM.

What if there is an issue with the coding coil in that lanyard and the MPEM isn't always able to read it? I would think the programmer could basically red flag a lanyard that wasn't able to be read properly when operating it at different temps. What if someone replaced your MPEM last year and used the same lanyard to program it and there's an issue with it's digital coding all along that's just intermittent?

Do you have another programmed lanyard by chance? That side of the MPEM reading the lanyard unfortunately boils down to the low tech side of just parts swapping since you have verified the grey communication wire's ability to communicate via the reed switch.

 

[8675-30-9]

We did re-code the lanyard as well. But that has made no difference. I need another lanyard anyhow and am willing to try that as well if you think it may make work? Keeping in mind the lanyard has been kept at a consistent temp in my pocket the entire time as well.

Agreed at that point testing directly into the mpem that is the case. The only thing I would do over and above that is to try another programmed key.

One of those Can Doo programmers for home use sure would be handy to have for situations like these just to identify, program and remove keys and or see if there's some issue with it communicating to that side of the MPEM.

What if there is an issue with the coding coil in that lanyard and the MPEM isn't always able to read it? I would think the programmer could basically red flag a lanyard that wasn't able to be read properly when operating it at different temps. What if someone replaced your MPEM last year and used the same lanyard to program it and there's an issue with it's digital coding all along that's just intermittent?

Do you have another programmed lanyard by chance? That side of the MPEM reading the lanyard unfortunately boils down to the low tech side of just parts swapping since you have verified the grey communication wire's ability to communicate via the reed switch.

 

[Waterluvr]

We did re-code the lanyard as well. But that has made no difference. I need another lanyard anyhow and am willing to try that as well if you think it may make work? Keeping in mind the lanyard has been kept at a consistent temp in my pocket the entire time as well.

And there's the rub, the lanyard contains a coded coil that never changes and is not programmable, the MPEM is simply programmed to store that particular code and up to I believe nine others if for some reason you wanted to add that many spares. I despise the practice of parts changing in lieu of performing due diligence in taking whatever steps are necessary to diagnose electrical problems but in this case what else can you do?

In my minds eye it's the only way to eliminate the possibility if there's some temperature sensitive issue in the coded coil inside that lanyard. You have reasonably identified a pattern of success / failure that corresponds to temperature, is there anything in that lanyard coil that can affected by it? The instant that lanyard is placed on the post that thin contact strip is going to change temp accordingly and transfer that to the coded portion.

Having a programmer would probably confirm that question, or in other words if the MPEM can't read the key then you wouldn't expect a programmer to either, you have an intermittent problem and who's to say what works right or fails while it's sitting in the shop being tested. This thread and your issue in particular almost justifies the cost of owning one if you're going to be into the dealer for time on a punch ticket for electrical diagnosis. I think the home version of those are around $400.00 for the unit that can be used on up to 4 different watercraft.

The aftermarket programmable Dess keys are cheap and the first one you burn as a test / spare covers close to the first 100.00 of cost and for an issue like your's the remainder of the cost could easily be spent on shop time for electrical diagnosis, a dealer is going to start from scratch and charge accordingly for testing if a new lanyard doesn't clear it up.

Either way I can see it taking the guesswork out of the coded lanyard side of things, and a fresh new one would be next before another MPEM and the cost's associated with it.

 

[Danosll]

Put your dess key in freezer. But I doubt it is key because beeper starts to squeal when issue is present right? Ie hot outside. Something is looking for a ground. And I believe beeper is wired to front module right? Test each and every ground individually.

 

[Danosll]

Then when reed switch is triggered by magnet in key. You get long beep . Before it makes contact right?

 

[8675-30-9]

Then when reed switch is triggered by magnet in key. You get long beep . Before it makes contact right?

Yes, slightly before lanyard makes contact the 2 sec beep 2 sec pause starts and goes on continuously.

 

[8675-30-9]

And there's the rub, the lanyard contains a coded coil that never changes and is not programmable, the MPEM is simply programmed to store that particular code and up to I believe nine others if for some reason you wanted to add that many spares. I despise the practice of parts changing in lieu of performing due diligence in taking whatever steps are necessary to diagnose electrical problems but in this case what else can you do?

In my minds eye it's the only way to eliminate the possibility if there's some temperature sensitive issue in the coded coil inside that lanyard. You have reasonably identified a pattern of success / failure that corresponds to temperature, is there anything in that lanyard coil that can affected by it? The instant that lanyard is placed on the post that thin contact strip is going to change temp accordingly and transfer that to the coded portion.

Having a programmer would probably confirm that question, or in other words if the MPEM can't read the key then you wouldn't expect a programmer to either, you have an intermittent problem and who's to say what works right or fails while it's sitting in the shop being tested. This thread and your issue in particular almost justifies the cost of owning one if you're going to be into the dealer for time on a punch ticket for electrical diagnosis. I think the home version of those are around $400.00 for the unit that can be used on up to 4 different watercraft.

The aftermarket programmable Dess keys are cheap and the first one you burn as a test / spare covers close to the first 100.00 of cost and for an issue like your's the remainder of the cost could easily be spent on shop time for electrical diagnosis, a dealer is going to start from scratch and charge accordingly for testing if a new lanyard doesn't clear it up.

Either way I can see it taking the guesswork out of the coded lanyard side of things, and a fresh new one would be next before another MPEM and the cost's associated with it.

I did pick up a new lanyard, coded it and confirmed the old lanyard was ok with the programmer. I will try again once the temperature picks up and I am home to execute. Where do I get these components you speak of? I am awaiting a call back from the PO to see what issues he had with the computer swap last year. This will hopefully shed some more light on this situation.......stay tuned. And thank you all again for your assistance with this. Not even the Seadoo dealer wants to work on this boat either, they seem to all hate these things when it comes to working upside down.....

 

[Waterluvr]

I did pick up a new lanyard, coded it and confirmed the old lanyard was ok with the programmer. I will try again once the temperature picks up and I am home to execute. Where do I get these components you speak of? I am awaiting a call back from the PO to see what issues he had with the computer swap last year. This will hopefully shed some more light on this situation.......stay tuned. And thank you all again for your assistance with this. Not even the Seadoo dealer wants to work on this boat either, they seem to all hate these things when it comes to working upside down.....

The boat was with you and the service department had it hooked up to read the MPEM and add the new lanyard?

 

[8675-30-9]

The boat was with you and the service department had it hooked up to read the MPEM and add the new lanyard?

Yes this is correct.

 

[Waterluvr]

Yes this is correct.

I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope the new lanyard forever and always solves your issue.

 

[8675-30-9]

I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope the new lanyard forever and always solves your issue.

Just got off the phone with the PO. He says this is the same issue as before and maybe there is a warranty for this issue.....but I am not going to hold my breath. I must start looking for a ground issue of some sorts or a line break.......but I find it tough to believe this issue is taking place in the engine compartment given the heat the engines throws, you would think this would trip this problem while I'm on the water....... Where are some other grounding issues to search? The hottest parts on the boat that I could identify were the 3 seats and the drivers console.....anything there maybe?

 

[Waterluvr]

Your paths to ground are pretty easy to see and test as far as your two main ones for each engine and the MPEM. I know you're good with a meter so I would be taking loose the main black battery cable and the MPEM ground cables where they ground to the same point on the starters / engine block and getting resistance readings from end to end.

I have replaced hundreds of old boat cables that wouldn't pass testing even once the crimped ends were removed and new conductor exposed on each end to test from. ~Once they get hot enough one time they are never the same again.

You've already checked the 3 wire harness all the way back to the MPEM so that isn't in question. I'll try and get some time later to study the wiring diagrams for your boat and see if there's anything else that stands out.

 

[8675-30-9]

So I had a few relevant phone conversations this morning I'll share with you, two of the ebay seller's offering the new timing adjustable MPEM's for the ski's essentially share the opinion that the manufacturer's have no interest in developing them for the boat's due to the low numbers of them manufactured and sold. No big surprise there...

I called an engineering contact I have worked with in the past that specializes in the design and prototyping of progressive logic controls for industrial automation and gave him some insight as to the nature of what these MPEM modules do and all their associated functions and typical symptoms of failure. His response -"Open the damn thing up and fix it!"

I further explained that being out of the realistic skillset of most people and he laughed and said just send it to these guys it won't cost much and they have tech centers in the US and Canada that specialize in repairing things of this nature.

http://www.psi-repair.com/repair-services/printed-circuit-board-repair

Seems on their front web page they specialize in circuit repair for the US Military, -"Quick Fact: PSI’s repaired and manufactured circuit card assemblies (CCAs) are used on U.S. Naval ships, aircraft and submarines, as well as U.S. Air Force weaponry and radar systems."

I'f they can keep a Sub running a bad MPEM shouldn't to be much of a hurdle, I'd send them the whole system with DESS post and key, and a copy of the shop manual for the tech to reference.

"Hello ________,
Thanks for inquiring on the PSI website. Unfortunately we do not service the private sector on electrical issues. We primarily service the industrial and aerospace industries.
I'm sorry but cannot provide an alternate source for this electrical issue."

 

[Danosll]

I think the good news out of this is that if this issue was present before the mpem was replaced. It stands to reason that the mpem isn't or was ever the problem. Open the gray box follow and test all black ground wires. Run a new ground wire to test with. If that doesn't show up any problems test each connection on the large multipin connector . That allows the harness to pass through the box. If you disassemble it take a couple of pics of what wires go where .

 

[Waterluvr]

"Hello ________,
Thanks for inquiring on the PSI website. Unfortunately we do not service the private sector on electrical issues. We primarily service the industrial and aerospace industries.
I'm sorry but cannot provide an alternate source for this electrical issue."

Figures I get a referral from an engineer and they won't help "us".