Free Seadoo GTI 720; Trying to start it.

[smaguire93]

Hello Gurus.

Firstly I want to apologise if this is in the wrong section feel free to delete or move.

I have been amazed by the help you guys have given others and wonder if yous could sprinkle some knowledge onto me.

I got a basically free 2004 sea doo GTI 720. Previous owner said sometimes it would run sometimes it wouldn't. It has sat for around 5 years (Garage stored but in cold Scotland winter temps -10 summer not much beter!)

I have cleaned the carbs and changed fuel lines, drained fuel and refiled with high octane premix.

In the bottom of the ski there is a substantial amount of oil.

I got a new 330cca good brand marine battery and I can get it to turn over without the spark plugs but spark plugs in it turns over once or twice and then appears to not be engaging and spinning freely. I have sanded all connections and applied grease.

When turning over without plugs it spews out a fine white mist but I don't see any large particles of oil etc.

I suppose my questions are. Could it be hydro locked(leaking crank seal)? would a poor earth somewhere cause this?

I am also terrified of getting it running and then stuck out at sea. What else should I do on a ski which has sat for so long to lower the chance of a mechanical. My current list is change fuel filter and O ring. Complete carb rebuilt and install an airbox (Ski has only got a flame arrestor; I wonder if this could be a clue to a bigger problem to come....) In the winter I plan on a rebuild of top end and jet pump. But at the moment I would be happy with some lease of life from it before the bank account gets hit hard on new parts.

Once again I am so very sorry if this is in the wrong place or if its a stupid question. I am completely new to skis and a broke student but my days it is fun trying to fix things and loosing skin off your knuckles! Feel free to send your paypal over and ill buy you a pint for any help!

 

[JeremyD615]

I’d suspect that you’ve got oil in the bottom end. It takes quite a bit of cranking to clear them out sometimes. Pull the plugs and put the wires on the grounding post. Then crank it for 15 seconds or so at a time, waiting at least that long between attempts. Make sure your fuel selector is in the off position while you’re doing this, and keep going until there’s no longer a mist. Once it’s clear, turn your fuel back on, pour a bit of premix in the plug holes, reinstall the plugs and try to get it to fire. It should start right up with the premix in there. If not, it’s time to check compression and we’ll point you in the right direction from there...

 

[Ckrawiec]

Hello Gurus.

Firstly I want to apologise if this is in the wrong section feel free to delete or move.

I have been amazed by the help you guys have given others and wonder if yous could sprinkle some knowledge onto me.

I got a basically free 2004 sea doo GTI 720. Previous owner said sometimes it would run sometimes it wouldn't. It has sat for around 5 years (Garage stored but in cold Scotland winter temps -10 summer not much beter!)

I have cleaned the carbs and changed fuel lines, drained fuel and refiled with high octane premix.

In the bottom of the ski there is a substantial amount of oil.

I got a new 330cca good brand marine battery and I can get it to turn over without the spark plugs but spark plugs in it turns over once or twice and then appears to not be engaging and spinning freely. I have sanded all connections and applied grease.

When turning over without plugs it spews out a fine white mist but I don't see any large particles of oil etc.

I suppose my questions are. Could it be hydro locked(leaking crank seal)? would a poor earth somewhere cause this?

I am also terrified of getting it running and then stuck out at sea. What else should I do on a ski which has sat for so long to lower the chance of a mechanical. My current list is change fuel filter and O ring. Complete carb rebuilt and install an airbox (Ski has only got a flame arrestor; I wonder if this could be a clue to a bigger problem to come....) In the winter I plan on a rebuild of top end and jet pump. But at the moment I would be happy with some lease of life from it before the bank account gets hit hard on new parts.

Once again I am so very sorry if this is in the wrong place or if its a stupid question. I am completely new to skis and a broke student but my days it is fun trying to fix things and loosing skin off your knuckles! Feel free to send your paypal over and ill buy you a pint for any help!

OK, welcome aboard. First off...there is no such thing as a stupid question.....the stupid question is the one NOT asked. If you don't know something there is no shame in asking.

A bit of confusion to start....you stated " I cleaned the carbs", as in plural....the 2004 GTI, according to the shop manual only has a single carb....

You stated, "there is a substantial amount of oil in the bottom of the ski".... that needs attention, typically the oil tank bottom grommet will leak or the oil tank is cracked along a seam......as the ski has sat around for awhile, my guess is the tank bottom grommet has/is failing.....they are cheap to find and fix.....Amazon.

You stated, "I am terrified to be stranded out to sea"....valid concern.....NEVER RIDE ALONE and/or make sure someone knows where and when you left and WHEN you are expected back. Make sure you have some signalling supplies (flares, flashlight, whistle) in the ski to attract attention - IF YOU GET STUCK. Bring a phone in a watertight carrier. Always have a full water bottle and some candy bars in a watertight bag with you whenever you go out.

You stated, "I cleaned the carbs"....may not be good enough....2004 carb(s)? should be rebuilt with ONLY GENUINE MIKUNI parts....aftermarket kits are a waste of time and money and energy.

 

[smaguire93]

Thanks for the advice guys appreciate it. Sorry I mean Carb. Yes carb will get a full rebuild but would like to get some signs of live before investing too much into it.

So today I spent around 2 hours giving it short 15 second blasts. Its still producing some vapour but not much. After 15 seconds on a white towel (Don't tell the wife I have stolen her linen) it produces some staining of the towel but definitely not saturating it. (Looks like oil)

I did not have the fuel selector off (will do this tomorrow) and I have clamped the oil line for the mean time.

When I slowly turn the pto at the rear by hand I can hear liquid of some sort on the down stroke.

Should there be absolutely no mist coming out of the plugs?

I’d suspect that you’ve got oil in the bottom end. It takes quite a bit of cranking to clear them out sometimes. Pull the plugs and put the wires on the grounding post. Then crank it for 15 seconds or so at a time, waiting at least that long between attempts. Make sure your fuel selector is in the off position while you’re doing this, and keep going until there’s no longer a mist. Once it’s clear, turn your fuel back on, pour a bit of premix in the plug holes, reinstall the plugs and try to get it to fire. It should start right up with the premix in there. If not, it’s time to check compression and we’ll point you in the right direction from there...

When you mention putting the wires on the ground post. Is this the ignition coils and how do you ground them?

This is it without the spark plugs. Is this too much mist?

With spark plugs it turns 1/4 of a turn or so.

Thanks again!

 

[smaguire93]

So quick update. Out today with a new multimeter (my old cheap one was showing 8.92V on all 12V batteries) but normal when tested on small batteries etc strange I know.

I ran a jumper lead from engine earth to battery, and a jumper lead from engine hot to solenoid hot. It seemed to turn over with more power for about 1/2 rotation as apposed to the 1/4 it was doing. (Done this a few times and similar result half turn then wiring noise; sounds like starter not staying engaged)

So then I took out the new multimeter

Well anyway battery 12.8v unloaded, loaded 12.3V
Hot side of solenoid 12.77v around 11.9v on pressing key
Then on battery side of solenoid first time trying to press the key I got a solid clunk from solenoid. (Had changed nothing from previous attempts except adding voltmeter probe.

Solenoid next try done multiple quick clicks (around 3). Then went back to one solid click on each press of the button and no signs of life from engine. (I had the electrical box near me and its 100% noise from the solenoid)

Questions;

So now I am thinking could this have been due to a bad/ going bad solenoid not giving enough power to turn the loaded engine?

Or have I broke the solenoid somehow?

Anyway. New solenoid time. Ill also order new cables from battery to solenoid. From solenoid to starter and a new earth. The ski has been sitting for 5 years so I would have wanted to buy them at some time.

 

[smaguire93]

More updates.

Jumped solenoid with screwdriver (Same result click and no movement)

Pulled the starter (took me 2 hours turning the bolts 1/8 turn at a time as I didnt have a long bar. Thankfully Ive got flexible arms)

Starter looks rough....Very rough.....

Its a 9 tooth model but does it look OEM to you guys?
If so I will get it rebuilt if not ill source an OEM.

 

[smaguire93]

Tried to bench test it. Once I got it to spin for a second. Every other time. Nada no movement at all.

 

[Tyman2020]

make sure you have a good ground when bench testing.

 

[smaguire93]

make sure you have a good ground when bench testing.

Ground onto the starter where its engine connection come from and other end to battery negative. I'll recheck this tomorrow tho cheers!

 

[JeremyD615]

That starter looks rough! If it’s not working on the bench, it’s definitely not working in the ski. It could be OEM, but I can’t make out any markings on it at all, so there’s no telling. With the shape that it’s in, I’d probably just call Nick or Jess at Westside Powersports and get a good used OEM one...

 

[smaguire93]

Forgot to mention I live in Scotland so parts are very hard to come by. Currently bidding on a 1998 starter which looks in much beter condition.

I opened this one up to see what was inside. I cannot get the back plate where the brushes are off as it is rust welded on!. Some pics for you guys. Would this possibly still be able to run out of curiosity? (before I dismantled and removed it that is). Sorry I couldn't get a photo of brush condition etc.

Does your gut think I'm along the right lines or is this a red herring?

(All dirt in the tray is from the starter, there is actually a lot more now after some wiggling.)

 

[Ckrawiec]

The outside of the starter does look pretty rough but you can pretty that up. It's the inside that really matters but to my untrained eye, that looks like a stock starter.

I'd clean and polish the copper bars (light sanding will clean them up nice), the brushes look like they have plenty of meat on them BUT is that one brush stuck ? the other one is projecting out plenty far enough.

You will have to get that cover off in order to re-assemble it, so work it off best you can....WD40 and some gentle knocking will eventually work it loose. Starter re-build kits can be ordered on Amazon....about $35 US is about right. A rebuilt OEM starter is still better than any Aftermarket starter.

 

[LikeabossTM]

The brush definitely looks like a problem. No brush contact to the commutator, no power to the spinny parts, no spinning...

 

[smaguire93]

The brush definitely looks like a problem. No brush contact to the commutator, no power to the spinny parts, no spinning...

Thanks Likeaboss reassuring that theres something wrong with it. Its actually cheaper to buy a used OEM starter than a brush pack here in the UK! so I will buy a used one and stick it in

 

[LikeabossTM]

Thanks Likeaboss reassuring that theres something wrong with it. Its actually cheaper to buy a used OEM starter than a brush pack here in the UK! so I will buy a used one and stick it in

Good stuff, definitely make sure it's OEM. I don't have direct experience with aftermarket units, but the expert consensus is that they're bound to be bollocks. Best choices are new OEM, rebuilt OEM, used OEM, and that's the end of the list.

 

[smaguire93]

Sorry for the delay in the update. Been waiting on parts. In the mean time I repaired two broken engine mounts.

So stuck in the new (well used OEM) starter. Which was so much easier with extension bars and the ski cranks over great

Primed the fuel lines with a hand pump.

Tried to start it and after many goes it turned over for around 2 seconds!! Enough to smoke out the neighbours. I'm delighted.

Battery ran out of juice pretty quickly. Before I could get a decent start.

Charging the battery and ill go at it again tomorrow.

Must have been a weak starter all along. Thanks everyone for the help and advice much appreciated.
I will continue trying to get it to start tomorrow. Next stage is carb rebuild kit, Fuel filters and a good clean. Will try to get some videos tomorrow (If it runs)

 

[smaguire93]

I'm well aware its a different story first time trying to start it in water but for now I'm too happy to care!

 

[Ckrawiec]

I'm well aware its a different story first time trying to start it in water but for now I'm too happy to care!

Accept the small victories...whenever you can .

You can squirt pre-mix into the carbs to keep her running for short durations if the fuel system is not feeding properly to keep her running on her own.

Don't run it out of water for too long or on the hose for too long.....hose water does not cool the driveline components, so minimum running on the hose (3-5 mins MAX). BTW: The out of water hose water sequence is: Connect hose, ENGINE must be running, turn on the water, test/troubleshoot, shut OFF the water, shut off the engine...DO NOT RUN THE HOSE with a non-running engine.

Quick test....if she starts and runs even for a short bit.....pre-attach a multimeter to the battery posts and see if the voltage is above 12V while running....should be near 13V or slightly higher and smooth-not bouncing all over the place......that'll sorta indicate if your rectifier is sending voltage back to the battery to keep it charged.....you may not be able to make a good determination until you get / keep her running even for 30 seconds.....but its an easy test to see the state of the electrics in the ski. There should be a fuse back near the solenoid, check that as well.....but if she's "starting" it's probably ok.

 

[smaguire93]

So today it started right up and idled. Done this a few times turning it off by pulling the lanyard.

Then for some reason I decided to stop the ski by pressing the off button.

Now when I press the switch nothing happens....
Still makes the same beeps and jumping the solenoid causes it to turn over fast.

Could this be the stop/start button?

 

[Ckrawiec]

So today it started right up and idled. Done this a few times turning it off by pulling the lanyard.

Then for some reason I decided to stop the ski by pressing the off button.

Now when I press the switch nothing happens....
Still makes the same beeps and jumping the solenoid causes it to turn over fast.

Could this be the stop/start button?

Could very well be....the Start/Stop switch on my '96 has a sweet spot.....I have to press it in just the right spot to get her to fire.....the S/S switch is a simple reed switch which might be a little flaky......try pressing the button around the edges of the button.

The Start/Stop button is just a rubber cover OVER the start/stop switch located underneath it.

 

[smaguire93]

So i found two broken 15amp fuses replaced them both and get the same result. Any ideas?

 

[Ckrawiec]

So i found two broken 15amp fuses replaced them both and get the same result. Any ideas?

The picture you included is the fuse holder on your MPEM - the ski computer brain, so those should be "good" spare fuses AND Far as I can tell, you should have a 5amp fuse for the MPEM and a 15amp fuse for the Battery.......if the battery fuse was blown....that would kill the electric power from the battery.

You may also have to get to the S/S switch and test it for continuity or probe pin 1-23 (yellow/red wire) and pin 1-7 (should be BLACK ground).

Do you have the SHOP manual for your ski? It is a free download.

 

[smaguire93]

The picture you included is the fuse holder on your MPEM - the ski computer brain (i believe), so those should be "good" spare fuses. They are not attached to anything.

You may have to get to the S/S switch and test it for continuity or probe pin 1-23 (yellow/red wire) and pin 1-7 (should be BLACK ground).

Do you have the SHOP manual for your ski? It is a free download.

Ahh I get you. There are the only fuses I can find. Had the back electrical box open and can only see solenoid and ignition coil in it. I've got the manual trying to read through it. I like how it says things like "try a new MPEM" haha.

Will test the continuity now. DESS key on or off?

 

[smaguire93]

Could very well be....the Start/Stop switch on my '96 has a sweet spot.....I have to press it in just the right spot to get her to fire.....the S/S switch is a simple reed switch which might be a little flaky......try pressing the button around the edges of the button.

The Start/Stop button is just a rubber cover OVER the start/stop switch located underneath it.

`

Will give this a go too. I can feel the what seems to be a button pressing underneath the cover. As if something is clicking.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Ahh I get you. There are the only fuses I can find. Had the back electrical box open and can only see solenoid and ignition coil in it. I've got the manual trying to read through it. I like how it says things like "try a new MPEM" haha.

Will test the continuity now. DESS key on or off?

DESS on or off...shouldn't affect the Start/Stop switch...they are independent switches, but work together to get the ski started. You know the DESS works as the ski will start (when it does/did).....so try it BOTH ways (DESS ON & OFF).