Drive Shaft Boot Missing

[mejim707]

I have a 96 Challenger. While looking into greasing my carrier bearing, and hearing a "clink", I looked under the boat and noticed the drive shaft boot was missing. Wonderful... So, I think I'm going to need to pull the pump to replace it.

If the boat is only used in fresh water, how long can I ride it without this boot? I'm not sure how long this was missing for the previous owner either.

If I do need to replace it, it seems I need to remove the entire pump. But, the previous owner, or the drunk mechanic who was working on this thing, used a ton of this black sealant to seal the pump to the hull. I have not attempted to remove the pump yet but I can only imagine this will be a nightmare with now much of this crap is on there.

Is there a good trick on how to remove the pump and break free this sealant without damaging things and without taking ages to get it done? If I end up removing it I'll be replacing the wear ring, boot and possibly the impeller itself. Please take a look at this photo and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[JeremyD615]

You’ll have to refresh my memory on this one. Did you change from a carbon seal to a carrier bearing for some reason? I believe the Challengers all came with a carbon seal from the factory and there is no grease point..

Which driveshaft boot are you referring to? The one on the inside of the hull, that presses against the carbon ring, or the one inside the pump cavity? If it’s the one inside the pump cavity, I wouldn’t worry about it. A lot of people remove them, since they don’t really work all that well to keep things from getting caught up in there anyway...

 

[mejim707]

You’ll have to refresh my memory on this one. Did you change from a carbon seal to a carrier bearing for some reason? I believe the Challengers all came with a carbon seal from the factory and there is no grease point..

Which driveshaft boot are you referring to? The one on the inside of the hull, that presses against the carbon ring, or the one inside the pump cavity? If it’s the one inside the pump cavity, I wouldn’t worry about it. A lot of people remove them, since they don’t really work all that well to keep things from getting caught up in there anyway...

So I have the carrier bearing. That’s under the plastic cover in the engine bay. That has a grease point on it that I attached to and gave a few pumps.

As for the missing boot, it’s the space shown in the picture above. There’s what looks like a lip about 1 inch from the impeller where the shaft slides into the impeller. It didn’t look right to me so I checked the parts diagram and it looks like there should be a rubber boot there. That’s under the boat in the cavity.

 

[mejim707]

 

[JeremyD615]

There would have been a plastic shaft protector installed from the factory. It really didn’t do any good, and in fact makes it more difficult to untangle any rope or line that gets sucked up, so most people just took them off...

 

[mejim707]

There would have been a plastic shaft protector installed from the factory. It really didn’t do any good, and in fact makes it more difficult to untangle any rope or line that gets sucked up, so most people just took them off...

Sweet! That's good news. I won't worry about it then. Thanks again Jeremy.

 

[mejim707]

@JeremyD615 One thing after another man I’ll tell you. Take a look at how the rubber hose is attached to the carrier. I think I need to loosen the hose clamp and move it up over the end of the bearing. It seems like it’s barely on there.

Can this hose be reused?

 

[JeremyD615]

I would try to move the clamp. If it’s not leaking once the clamp is moved, you’re good to go!

 

[mejim707]

I would try to move the clamp. If it’s not leaking once the clamp is moved, you’re good to go!

Ok I reoriented the hose clamp. And tightened it down.

I greased the carrier and the zerk at the PTO. 1.5 shots on the PTO and 2.5 on the carrier. I have no idea when the last time was these were greased.

Question, regarding the carrier, if it already had grease in there, and I pumped a few additional in slowly, would the extra grease ( if any ) simply pass by the carrier seals or would it blow the seals out? Also, would the grease come out of the front or back if so.

I can see how this bearing would be more reliable than the carbon seal, and last longer, but there seems like a number of unknowns. Like, will it fail? When greasing with the grease just ease by or blow a seal? Did the grease actually get into the bearing? I like to see everything but it seems some things are just left up to faith lol

 

[JeremyD615]

Unfortunately it’s hard to tell on these, and it is easy to blow the seals out. Don’t keep pumping until it blows grease out, but give it just enough that you see some movement on the shaft. It shouldn’t take more than two or three pumps to get it filled, and then give it another shot or two after ten hours or so of run time.

 

[mejim707]

Unfortunately it’s hard to tell on these, and it is easy to blow the seals out. Don’t keep pumping until it blows grease out, but give it just enough that you see some movement on the shaft. It shouldn’t take more than two or three pumps to get it filled, and then give it another shot or two after ten hours or so of run time.

Ok thanks. I gave it 2.5 pumps so I’ll leave it at that. Hopefully that didn’t do anything bad. But no way to tell. Just another thing to rattle around in my head while on the water. All these ‘what ifs’.

I didn’t see anything leak from the front seal either. There’s no sign of the grease coming out of there. Hoping the same goes for the back.

 

[racerxxx]

There should be a rubber seal on the nose of the impeller WITH a plastic ring that locks over it. Personally, I wouldn't ride without it too long. Eventually it will rust and I've seen them bond to the impeller. I do ride in salt and fresh water so I tend to make sure I have everything sealed like it should be.

Items 2 and 42

 

[mejim707]

There should be a rubber seal on the nose of the impeller WITH a plastic ring that locks over it. Personally, I wouldn't ride without it too long. Eventually it will rust and I've seen them bond to the impeller. I do ride in salt and fresh water so I tend to make sure I have everything sealed like it should be.

Items 2 and 42

Ok sounds good. I think I’m going to ride it the remainder of the season then pull the pump over the winter. Right now it seems as though the impeller and shaft aren’t bad. I think the toughest part is going to be removing the pump though. The previous person glued that thing on there like there was no tomorrow. It’s not going to be fun.

 

[JeremyD615]

Good catch racerxxx! I didn’t even notice that they were missing there. I thought we were talking about the shaft protector that came on the boats...

As for removing the pump, I’ve found that the least violent way to get them off is to hook the trailer up to the truck, and back it up close to something sturdy like a tree or pole. Then you can use a ratchet strap to hook the vanes on the pump and use the ratcheting action to increase pressure until it pops off... It’s obviously not something they would recommend in the service manual, but it does work and it’s less violent than trying to yank it off with the truck like I’ve seen done a few times... Those things can be a bear when they’re sealed on there like that!

 

[mejim707]

Do you guys think that running the boat with this missing for the remainder of the season would be an issue? Looking at the shaft it seems pretty good. Only a few spots. I can do the work this winter. But, if it’s a big problem I’ll just suck it up and do it sooner than later.

 

[JeremyD615]

The rest of the season is a long time to run without it. That rubber boot or seal is there to keep the grease in after you grease the splines on the driveshaft. If you’re in fresh water, I wouldn’t be afraid to run it for a trip to the lake or two, but it really should be addressed... The hard part is going to be pulling the pump off. After that, replacing it is cake...

 

[mejim707]

The rest of the season is a long time to run without it. That rubber boot or seal is there to keep the grease in after you grease the splines on the driveshaft. If you’re in fresh water, I wouldn’t be afraid to run it for a trip to the lake or two, but it really should be addressed... The hard part is going to be pulling the pump off. After that, replacing it is cake...

Well this is going to suck. That pump is on there big time.

I guess if I’ll have the pump off I may as well replace the carrier for the heck of it and the wear ring. At least I’ll know it’s all good.

One step closer 5 steps back.

I’ll try the tip of using a winch to pull it off. I’m afraid it’s going to break the hull with how much adhesive crap they put on it. Ugh

 

[mejim707]

I’m going to start the removal tonight. Any other tips or tricks?

While it’s off should I move to a new carbon bearing or just stick with the carrier?

Since there’s no telling how long that boot on the drive shaft was missing for, what damage, if any, should I look out for? Would the splines on the shaft where it enters the impeller be screwed up?

Thanks again fellas.

 

[racerxxx]

Just look for rust. I would wire brush the splines, use something to really clean the impeller side, use q tips to get all the grease out of the impeller side. Put new synthetic grease all over it. Make sure the bumper is in the end of the driveshaft.....before your grease the shaft up. Don't forget the plastic ring and seal.

 

[mejim707]

Just look for rust. I would wire brush the splines, use something to really clean the impeller side, use q tips to get all the grease out of the impeller side. Put new synthetic grease all over it. Make sure the bumper is in the end of the driveshaft.....before your grease the shaft up. Don't forget the plastic ring and seal.

Ok will do. And is rust is present on the splines I should replace the drive shaft?

My grocery list thus far;
271000516 - Impeller boot
271000517 - Impeller ring
271000290 - Wear Ring (already received)
Carrier bearing vs. Carbon Bearing? Since I'll have everything apart should I just move to the carbon version? Or stick with the carrier? I don't mind greasing the carrier but the unknowns of blowing out the seals, frequency of greasing and the potential to seize it to the shaft and sink makes me feel more comfortable with the carbon. Thoughts?

 

[JeremyD615]

Personally, I like the carrier bearings, but I grease mine regularly... There are pros and cons of each setup, but to be honest I’d just replace it with what was already there.

 

[mejim707]

Personally, I like the carrier bearings, but I grease mine regularly... There are pros and cons of each setup, but to be honest I’d just replace it with what was already there.

Ok cool, I'll do that. Interestingly though, this parts diagram shows that it should have the carbon bearing. Notice part #10. I'll just put a carrier back on. I'll buy a new one to be certain it's 100%.
1996 Sea-Doo Challenger, 5896 Drive System | Fox Powersports Sea-Doo Partshouse

How many pumps of grease should it take to fill the carrier initially? I'll look at the service manual as well. I'm sure all grease guns are not the same so how do you know exactly how much you need before blowing a seal?

Also, when reinstalling the pump, do I need to put that black sealant all around the rear side or can I switch to a neoprene seal? If the seal, do you have any recommendations?

Lastly (for now :/ sorry) when I reinstall the pump, do I need to realign the engine? I can mark how the pump is placed right now.

Sorry for all the questions. But I really appreciate the feedback. I'm getting there, just filling my brain with this stuff. It's a new animal.

In good news after rebuilding the carbs (again) and adjusting them properly the engine runs mint! It's getting there.

 

[mejim707]

Prob going to get this and use a little black RTV. Not too much. This joker had a field day with the RTV. It's a mess.
https://www.amazon.com/PUMP-NEOPRENE-293200024-140MM-ADHESIVE/dp/B01FPD6LYU

If I replace the carrier with a new one, I'm having a difficult time finding a compatible version since this boat did not have one originally so there are now OEM numbers associated with the challenger 5896.

The style I have is OEM# 272000012. Notice how small the lip is that you clamp to. This is the reason the hose was coming off in the image I posted earlier. Because that lip is so small, the hose clamp began backing off.
https://www.amazon.com/JSP-Aftermarket-Replacement-Assembly-272000012400/dp/B07JR7NJWP

I'd prefer this style since there's a lot more area to connect the hose and lock it in place with the clamp. I just don't know if this will be compatible.
https://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Seal-Carrier-Drive-Shaft/dp/B07254WNQ8

I want to stick with what's right and OEM but I can't locate the part number since it seems this boat did not come with a carrier bearing originally.

 

[jts32]

I would switch back to the original carbon seal. There are horror stories about have the bearing fail and seize to the drive shaft, ripping off the thru hull fitting.

 

[mejim707]

This is what's installed on my Challenger. Part #
1996 Sea-Doo Explorer, 5823 Drive System | Fox Powersports Sea-Doo Partshouse

But this is meant for an explorer. So my boat has the wrong part. The Challenger should have the carbon bearing.

I'm not sure where to go from here with this bearing now. Do I stick with the wrong part or move back to the correct part. I can buy a new SBT drive line rebuild kit with the carrier bearing or get a carbon bearing kit. What would you guys do in this case?

I would switch back to the original carbon seal. There are horror stories about have the bearing fail and seize to the impeller shaft, ripping off the thru hull fitting.

I'm kinda at a cross roads here. I don't know if switching back will require a new drive shaft. But I would prefer returning this to stock. It didn't have the carrier originally. And the hose was almost off because of the design of the clamp and the small area to clamp to.

If I do move back to the stock carbon seal it would ad peace of mind to a lot of unknowns about that carrier however. But would also require replacements more frequently. At least I would never worry about sinking due to random failure.