Done with seadoo and 2 strokes

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Captain RonJon said:
Hey for what it's worth, I am brand new to jet skis - never owned one before now. I followed this forum (among others) for a while before deciding this is where I should 'hang my hat'. I decided on an older model 2 stroke SeaDoo (in fact, now I have 2 of them that don't run, lol). Lots of work ahead and lots of hours will be spent in the garage. In fact, I estimate that I just might spend more time in the garage 'learning' the first couple of seasons than being out on the water but I'm ok with that and sometimes learning comes at a price, and I'm sure I'll make mistakes - I built that into my purchase. But I will never make the mistake of thinking that going from 2 stroke to 4 stroke or from Seadoo to Yamaha will alter that risk - I've read far too many forum threads to believe that. Unless money is no object for you, you either jump in with both feet or not, I don't think there is anything in between. And if I go into the water and only last 10 minutes, I'll go back to the garage, put my student hat on, log on to this forum and keep on going. It's been an immense help already!!
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amen brother.
 
LouDoo said:
However there is nothing like the feel of a light weight 2-stroke ski like coming out of a no wake zone and hammering it, also the fun and maneuverability of a 2-stroke ski. Yes I know some say the new Spark is close, but I think the jury is still out on that one.

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Lou
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I couldn't agree more! I WANTED a two-stroke! The feel, the sound, the smell...it's all very addictive! My SPX has given me a few fits already but once you get the bugs worked out and it runs like a beast, the sense of satisfaction when you're on the water hitting the throttle and feeling that ski go, it all becomes worth it!!!!
 
Hands down, SeaDoo 2 strokes require more maintenance and repair work than a more modern 4 stroke. But personally I feel the positives far outweigh the negatives. In the three seasons I've owned my 96XP I've had to replace nearly everything on the ski, including the engine, carbon seal, wear ring, starter, etc. But at the same time I have learned a ton thanks to this forum and others, and now I know the ski like the back of my hand. And it's nice knowing almost everything on the thing is new, and my total cost is still far less than a brand new ski. Also, if more problems arise I can fix them quickly and easily on my own. I also have learned all the proper maintenance techniques so I feel like I can keep her running in top shape for years to come. That's far more rewarding to me than owning a brand new ski that I've never had to work on and works flawlessly with little or no maintenance. I don't mind doing the work, and in a way riding it is even more fun knowing that I've practically built the thing from the ground up myself.

On top of that, I just enjoy the experience of riding a 2 stroke far more than a newer 4 stroke. I grew up riding them and don't see any reason to change. As long as parts are available I will continue to do so and have no plans on changing. To me you just can't beat the feel of riding a lightweight, powerful 2 stroke engine on the water. The feel, the sound, all of it, are just irreplaceable to me.

I guess it just all depends what you are looking for. If you are handy and can do the work yourself, and don't mind doing so every now and then, 2 strokes are a good option. If you don't have mechanical skills and want a maintenance free toy that you can just get on and ride every weekend, 4 strokes are probably the better choice.
 
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I been around 2-strokes all my life and it never ceases to amaze me how something so basically simple can be so cantankerous sometimes. Very recent experience in Rotax, however, so entirely new learning curve.

I agree that this does sound like a "lean" condition typically caused by carb or leaks somewhere. I have seen many cases where there has been dings, dents or high spots on mating surfaces that the gasket will not completely seal. Methinks that an engine pressure test may uncover something?

just Rod's $0.03 worth
 
I love reliability, but 4 strokes are rather boring. They go in a straight line and are smooth and you can fit your whole life's belongings in em, but where is the thrill? Where is the hang time when you hit that monster wake behind some huge ski boat? Where is the swift 180's and 360's that threaten to throw you off when you cut it doing 45mph? I owned one of those new 1000lb GTXs and must say it's nothing compared to the light, nimble 2strokes. It felt like a muscular minivan. Sure there was power, but it was a beast of a ski, and man did it guzzle gas?! I'll agree that the boats should use the 4tecs, but the thrill of riding my SPX is worth the extra time I'll spend fixing the dumb shit that breaks.
 
I love me the 2 strokes!

I can't contribute anything useful in this thread but this:




513.jpg
 
I firmly believe if you have to pay shop rates to keep your ski running then you should own a 4-stroke. One exception to this rule might be if you habitually submerge and otherwise abuse your ski a 4-stroke left full of water for a few months will cost you more to repair.

Honestly, I think the pricing on some of the older 4-strokes are now becoming reasonable?
 
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Know first hand how these things can be frustating, time consuming and expensive. I am on the 3rd 947 top end in 2 years. Rebuilt engine, carbs twice, checked timing, new lines all the normal stuff. Money wise totally buried. Right now very happy with that unit, but have a simular one that runs smooth and is dependable. I am determined to fix it if for no other reason than an education. Don't get mad at the watercraft it is a stupid inanimate object. Dig in and figure it out. Most of the information is available on the internet.
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
I firmly believe if you have to pay shop rates to keep your ski running then you should own a 4-stroke. One exception to this rule might be if you habitually submerge and otherwise abuse your ski a 4-stroke left full of water for a few months will cost you more to repair.

Honestly, I think the pricing on some of the older 4-strokes are now becoming reasonable?
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I have to say that this is good information... The 4-tech engine is very proven and with just oil changes and flushing the engine you can get 400 or more hours. I own an 09 and 2010 and they are both 4-techs. Short of putting gas in the tank and making sure there is oil in the engine, you pretty much just ride and drive them.
 
99seadoogtxltd said:
I purchased a 99 seadoo gtx limited about 2 years ago. Beautiful condition. Dash only showed 75 hours. last year everything was going great and then, BOOM. Disaster struck. Pto piston melted. Purchased an sbt engine and started swapping things over and nightmare after nightmare. Broke crank trying to pull flywheel, broke rave solenoid installing motor, after enduring pure hell it had a bad vibration from engine not being aligned properly. TWO WEEKS LATER, BOOM. Pto piston gone again. During the engine swap I did an oil block off. Went premix. I went through all the hassle of changing out fuel lines, cleaning fuel selector, rebuild carbs etc. Totally devastating.
Then I found a guy with an 2003 yamaha cruiser. He flipped it and turned it over the wrong way. He couldn't get it to run right. Totally sick of it sold it to me for 1400. I noticed exhaust leak and changed oil, filter, and plugs and it's running like brand new. AND I SAY, THE HELL WITH SEADOO AND 2 STROKES IN GENERAL. No offense to all of you who have helped me along the way. Much love.
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Truth is, they're all junk! :)
 
Coastiejoe said:
I have to say that this is good information... The 4-tech engine is very proven and with just oil changes and flushing the engine you can get 400 or more hours. I own an 09 and 2010 and they are both 4-techs. Short of putting gas in the tank and making sure there is oil in the engine, you pretty much just ride and drive them.
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I dunno coastie, 400 hours seems to be extremely conservative? Well taken care of and ridden around 50% of power then at least 2000 hours wouldn't surprise me? This is a guess though, I'm not really sure.

I can say there are plenty of examples of Yamaha 4-stroke outboards with 5,000~10,000 hours on them
 
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
I dunno coastie, 400 hours seems to be extremely conservative? Well taken care of and ridden around 50% of power then at least 2000 hours wouldn't surprise me? This is a guess though, I'm not really sure.
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My point, though not expressed well, was to mean that if you do almost nothing, they last for many hundreds of hours as compared to 2-strokes. If you have a lack of knowledge of Seadoo 2-strokes or do not do what is needed with them, you will be tearing into them to do service.
 
Coastiejoe said:
My point, though not expressed well, was to mean that if you do almost nothing, they last for many hundreds of hours as compared to 2-strokes. If you have a lack of knowledge of Seadoo 2-strokes or do not do what is needed with them, you will be tearing into them to do service.
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Agreed if not well cared for. I can't imagine the 4-tech isn't capable of easily exceeding 2,000 hours as many of these marine 4-strokes typically do and keep on going.

Performance package wise they're heavier, power/weight ratios must be a disadvantage I think. But reliability isn't the only important metric!
 
What I was saying originally. I got an 03 fx cruiser for 1400 on a shorlandr trailer that is in tip top shape with 128 hours on it. It has the mr1 engine. The only reason it wouldn't run right was because of a huge exhaust leak. I fixed it for 65 bucks. I will own this ski for many many years to come with FAR less hassle than any 2 stroke you could ever show me. And the actual cost per hour of running the ski is a he'll of a lot cheaper. That's all I was meaning with this thread. Go back and look at the original pics I posted. He was a complete dumbass. There is NO WAY I could pass that deal up.
 
99seadoogtxltd said:
What I was saying originally. I got an 03 fx cruiser for 1400 on a shorlandr trailer that is in tip top shape with 128 hours on it. It has the mr1 engine. The only reason it wouldn't run right was because of a huge exhaust leak. I fixed it for 65 bucks. I will own this ski for many many years to come with FAR less hassle than any 2 stroke you could ever show me. And the actual cost per hour of running the ski is a he'll of a lot cheaper. That's all I was meaning with this thread. Go back and look at the original pics I posted. He was a complete dumbass. There is NO WAY I could pass that deal up.
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I think you make a great deal on that ski man, I bet you ride that thing for as long as you could imagine.

I kinda wonder how the exhaust leak developed and if maybe might indicate some damage occurred elsewhere. There was a guy down on the dock the other day, had his boat lifted up out of the water with engine running and overheat buzzer blaring away I heard this so went down there to investigate and smoke was rolling off the engine and the paint was burned off one side.

I don't think that guy will get 5,000 hours on that motor, big doubts.
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
Agreed if not well cared for. I can't imagine the 4-tech isn't capable of easily exceeding 2,000 hours as many of these marine 4-strokes typically do and keep on going.

Performance package wise they're heavier, power/weight ratios must be a disadvantage I think. But reliability isn't the only important metric!
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I can't say enough about mine... Though 2-strokes certainly have their place, that place is not my garage. Being about to run at 50 MPH and still have nearly 25 MPH more if I want it is a great feeling...
 
I agree, I think that boat manufactures like Scarab and Glastron must have a great deal of confidence in the Rotax 4-tech engines reliability or they wouldn't be using them in their boats.

Lou
 
Yes I apologize if I took this alittle too personal and I do apologize. These machines can be frustrating to say the least but this forum can get you through any issue a PWC can throw at you. The reason a lot of us keep these old 2 strokes is we can blow a engine and a grand later be back on the water. With a 4 stroke it's not that way. I also love the feel of the older hulls and the thrill of the ride of a 90's Seadoo. Congratulations on your new ski and I hope you get the GTX worked out and back on the water, it really is a great ski
 
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