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Charleston 1996 Challenger Project

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Charleston

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I'm starting this fun old thread about my own fun with this 1996 Challenger restoration project. It has been a month now and found some great news from this forum and other insight elsewhere.

Initial State:
1. Left outside. Rear 3-person 2-piece rear seats beyond destroyed. Many even just missing the leather covers entirely. Berries, birds, and whatever else possible stained and dirtied the interior. Took this to local coin op washer and spent 10 bux just plowing through crud.
2. Fuel in system (might be there for 2 years) and oil reservoir full. Battery was charged and jumped prior to purchase. This would not start. It would crank. That made me feel good that things were not locked up. We hit the airbox with some fogger and after another crank some starter fluid and she fired up for a second. NOTE: I have been told NOT to start with starter fluid. Still, I had to know if this engine was functional. Old fuel was later pumped out. I would suggest getting a hand pump from Harbor Freight.
3. Engine compartment dirty and oily. Years of limited preventative maintenance. DESS or MPEM cover was missing. Found it in the steering wheel compartment. Will have to find fasteners for that. The engine foam on both sides were deteriorating due to time, etc. They will need to be replaced.
4. Exhaust fan was stuck in engine compartment. Tried to spin it and it broke off. Shaft was rusted clearly through.
5. Found the oil reservoir hose cut and not plugged leaving reservoir to carbs. Will need to plug to limit contamination. Since then I have found this system had its fuel/oil mixture bypassed. I have read in this forum that this happens to older units where either the oil pump dies or they do not want to risk it running out of oil to engine. Either way, looks like pre-mix for me. GREAT CATCH FOR ME HERE SINCE THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A HORRIBLE EVENT.
6. One DESS key came with the craft. It did work. One or Two beeps came up showing that it was programmed to the craft and also the beeper/chimer was functional.
7. Later inspection showed the fuel system lines were bone dry. I disconnected the line at the "Y" to verify this and to also test for vacuum during the cranking. Harbor Freight again, Item #93547. With 20% coupon it was only 15.00. This showed no vacuum from the pump. Oh yes, by the way the MAG carb has the fuel pump in it. Just a FYI. Took me days on this task.
8. As mentioned earlier, the exterior was worn and beaten. The front beverage compartment hinges were both broken off. At least cover was there. Also the rope storage compartment (on the back engine compartment cover) had both of its hinges broken. By design, these will continue to break. Just a piece of plastic that is folded back and forth over and over. What do you expect here. All plastic components were sun bleached. Cup holders missing. Passenger seat missing. No clue what to do there, yet. Some minor voids in visible hull. Will need to fill/patch those. Seats were already removed so fasteners were missing and "darts." Also the controls cover was loose. Get those fasteners later.
9. Title was fun. A typo in it between a 2 and a Z. Nice. DNR required me to do a pencil rubbing of it and bring it in for correct. Done.
10. Drive system was tested and is functional. How functional, not sure. Steering and reverse work at least physically. Might need some tuning. Throttle seems good.
11. Another note, all fuel lines are black. I have read that if you have grey ones, you are in trouble and need to replace them ASAP. No dry rotting noted under my inspection. I tried to squeeze them all by hand. These unique hose clamps really suck. Do yourself a favor and put in regular screwdriver based hose clamps in whenever you do a change. Otherwise it is some unique tool for servicing.
12. No cover or bimini on this. It did come with a shorelander trailer. The VIN sticker on that is completely faded out white. This required contacting Shorelander to have them find me actual model and VIN since even that title had a typo in it. Virginia...can you PLEASE MAKE YOUR DNR AND DMV WORKERS WEAR GLASSES??? BTW, a lot of stamped other locations of trailer can help with translation to actual model number. Shorelander was able to give me correct VIN. For 10.00 and a copy of the current (albiet incorrect) title will allow them to produce a new shiny VIN sticker.
13. No rust on engine. Flywheel guard was sitting in compartment not attached. No fasteners around for that.

More to follow:
Charleston
 
Wanted to also post some related links and sites that I used to get info and parts for this project here:

1. BRP Parts Catelog : Direct from Seadoo. They do not do parts but have accurate assembly blow-up PDF's.

2. Seadoo net: Shop and service manuals
http://www.sea-doo.net/SHOPMANUALS/JETBOATS/1996-1997/WELCOME.PDF

3. Of course this awesome forum.

4. Seadoo Parts House - They have same assembly blow-ups but also order and pricing (if avail).
http://www.seadoopartshouse.com

5. Speed Supplies - They have same assembly blow-ups but also order and pricing (if avail). Note: This looks like either their business is too big or whatever. It is almost impossible to get a human to answer the phone. Everything is electronic from ordering to returns and inquiries. They were also slow. It took two weeks to get just fastener and hinge order filled.
http://www.speedsupplies.com

6. Seadoo Upholsery - Upholstery and traction mats. I got my upholstery set from them from the owner second hand. Worked out GREAT. Looks great. I have also seen articles on traction mats in this forum and will be buying from them.
http://www.seadooupholstery.com/

7. Ebay - Heck yes. Some great deals on used and new components. Got filters from them and seal kits at a discount.

8. Local Jetski/motor shops. These vary dramatically for pricing. One larger store wanted 100.00/hr for anything and 60.00 for a DESS key programming. Another negotiated normal servicing on a job. A duel carb rebuild ran from 150.00 + parts to 400.00 + parts. Shop around. The larger shops can can you parts ASAP. An order on Friday came in on Tuesday. That is good service. Pricing normal per above links.

9. Empire covers - I will be getting a Bimini top from them. Just a FYI. I see a September order has a substantial (25%) discount. Keep this in mind for your budget.

10. Harbor Freight - you name it, they have it. May break if used daily. Otherwise, stuff works.

11. Local uphostery shop - search, and search some more. I had prices from 1000.00 to over 4000.00 to redo uphostery. All I can say is shop. Make sure they use stainless steel staples too.

12. Used replacement parts I would highly suggest this site too. There is some people who are always in a teardown phase of a watercraft.


Charleston.

Charleston.
 
Congratulations, this is a fun little boat! It sounds like you have a looong way to got though. I would look around the classifieds here and see if someone is parting out anything that you can use for stuff like seats. About the engine... even if you clean it up and get it running, I'd be weary of old/rusted components. Do you know if the engine has ever been rebuilt? I bought a 97spx in 2011 and it ran. Turns out the engine was original. Ran for a month or so and the needle bearings in the wrist pins blew up, killing the engine. Have you done a compression test yet? Since it's a 96, it probably does not have a drain plug on the counterbalance gear cavity. That is the lowest point in the motor and if the engine ever got water in it, you can bet the oil lubricating that gear and bearing is milky and no-good. When those seize, they blow a fist-size hole in the block and ruin the bottom end. You can just rebuild the carbs and cross your fingers, but my guess is it won't last a season. These boats are hard on this little 787. If I were you, I'd at least pull the motor and change the needle bearings. While it's out, you can turn the motor over and drain that Counterbalance oil out and replace it with new. When I rebuild my motors, I install a drain and a fill plug on these. Later generations of the 787 came with them standard.

Sorry to be the doom-sayer, but I'm just giving you my 2c worth of caution. You probably know you're getting into a lot of work here. However, owning this boat, I can say that is a very fun little craft. All my prop-boat owners envy the fun I have on it :) It's just a giant jet ski, that comes with a cooler, in which you can mount a stereo, and which you can ride at night. I love it!
 
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Good job... Can't wait to see your progress! I started a similar project earlier this year... I think it was about 6 months ago, and I'm still going through my 96 Challenger and finding things that are broken. Mine was in arguably worse shape than yours, coming from FL then sitting in someone's backyard in GA for a few years, it hadn't seen the water since 2006. The back end of my Challenger when I first saw it had a couple inches of water in the bilge! It was a complete mess, but at least it was complete (meaning everything was there), but it's coming along now. The trailer was rusty and in need of just about everything including a new VIN sticker, like yours. Shorelandr hooked me up with a new one though. I'll make one of these threads sooner or later. I've learned a lot and had fun fixing it so far. I am going to get a battery this weekend and try cranking it over. I'm so close to having it water-ready, but not there yet. I really want to get it on the lake before the weather gets too cold. We'll see...

Keep looking at some of the other resto-refresh threads and they'll keep you motivated!
 
I wanted to upload the As-is photos but for some reason I cannot do it. Maybe I am too new.

Engine compression was completed and MAG cylinder (forward) pulled 150 while the other cylinder (aft) pulled 125. RAVE valves were removed and cleaned. Confirmed with owner that fuel was pre-mixed since he had it which explains the cut (missing) oil line to carbs.

Yesterday, I re-installed the new seats. :chillpill: OMFG. The Engineer who designed this should be shot. Not once, twice. Four bolts under the bottom with two way in the front demanding me to be twisted and turned in a pretzel to get access. I was able to get 3 bolts in and then the 4th would not realign. Tried backward. Still nothing. Ended up taking out the washer inside for the 4th and all the world worked. Just a FYI. I was only able to reach the two backward darts for install. I will upload pics if I get the ability.

Beer storage compartment was fixed. The hinges were broken apart. This was a horrible project. The joint to the cover was easy to cut off and remove. The rivets to the body didn't. Tried to drill out. Screwed that up. Had to fix what I screwed up only to later use drywall expansion (the blue thingies) and screws to the body. Funny, it worked great. Still need to paint the small patch job. Still, it is functional again. Rivets worked to the cover. Hopefully I can do the same thing for the rope cover that is detached to the engine cover.

Today we take it out of the garage and hook to a hose to test the cooling system to ensure no water leaks, etc.

Charleston.
 
Wife and I got it out today! Yes she is alive. Wife too! J/K.

This is what I saw today and would appreciate any and all advice on this before tearing the rear end apart.
1. Limited thrust. She might be doing 10 mph. Nothing more. Moving to full thrust does nothing but boost the rpm to 3500. I'm thinking wear ring?
2. Fuel gauge show zero even though I know the tank was almost full.
3. Speedometer said zero. Where is that on this craft?
4. I replaced the bad exhaust fan on the RHS of the engine compartment. Nothing making it spin though. Any thoughts?

Good news, there was no water coming in the craft. I noticed a solid stream out of the cooling system. No weird sounds.

Thanks
Charleston.
 
1. Bad wear rings result in high RPMs. The boat is limited to 3500 while it is in neutral. Check and be sure thy neutral switch isn't bad. Does it beep twice when you put the key on? It should beep 4x (I think) if you try to start it in gear.
2. Bad fuel sensor is a known issue. Search the forum for troubleshooting procedures and the fixes.
3. Speed sensor is on the bottom port side jet nozzle. The shop manual has good troubleshooting procedures
4. Check the fuse to the fan. If that doesn't fix it, you'll have to troubleshoot the circuit. With the fan switch on, do you have 12v at the fan connector.

Off the top of my head, the fuel gauge and speedo are the same fuse (5A) and the blower is (7.5A)
 
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I get two beeps only which is correct for my model. I found the paddle wheel is missing for the speed sensor. I tried to look at a few diagrams but cannot find this neutral switch. Where is it located on the boat? Do you happen to know which system and # it might be?

I have partially dismantled the directional thrust in rear to get a good check of fitting/gap for thrust ring and impeller. Not sure how to actually measure that gap.


Thanks
Charleston.
 
The Neutral start switch is on the gate control handle, it is part#45 on the picture. What USAF was trying to say is, put the gate lever in forward or reverse and try and start the boat. It should not start, if it does I would suspect a bad switch. At the same time the boat should beep 4 times telling you you're not in neutral. You can check continuity of the switch with a DVM.


91.jpg
 
The neutral switch is in the throttle assembly. Does the boat start with it in forward or reverse?
Other than using a feeler gauge, the gap shouldn't be any wider than the width of a dime.

Do you have a shop manual?
 
Thank you for all the information! I appreciate it very much.

1. Limited RPM and thrust:
- Checked gaps at thrust ring and impeller. Looked good. Impeller was very shiny and had no signs of physical damage. This had to have been replaced since this is a 1996.
- When I attach the DESS key, it gives me 2 chirps and it cranks. When I put drive forward or reverse it gives me 4 chirps and will not allow me to crank. I would assume this is not a switch issue then. Please validate this theory if you can.

2. Found a lot of stuff on the fuel gage sending unit on numerous forum topics. Thanks.

3. Paddle wheel on rear sensor missing. Makes sense. Can either replace unit or just wing it for now until I can get this to plane.

4. Checked all three fuses in the box and all were good. Checked connection at the fan and got 0 Volts. Yes, the fan switch was on. LOL.

Now this continues with my checking the main electric box. Also I have one red and two black wires attached to the battery:
5. My electric box has 4 loose wires sticking out as part of the AS-IS purchase. This is 1 female red, 2 female yellow, 1 male yellow. None connected to each other. I tested voltage across them and got 12 volts across the 3 yellows when individually tested against the red. I did NOT try to connect any wires for fear of screwing something up.

- Upper 5 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 12 volts across it's plug.
- Lower left 5 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 12 volts across it's plug.
- Lower right 15 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 0 Volts across it's plug. :facepalm: ****????***

Any insight available on this?

Charleston.
 
impeller and wear ring are good and you're still having thrust issues? Are you sure your cable is moving the reverse hood up when you hit fwd? Could be a bead driveshaft seal, but that would drip water into the boat. Have you taken off the grey cover to inspect it in the water? Also try looking at it as you accelerate. I had a condition that upon acceleration, the prop would naturally push the shaft forward, and open a gap in the seal. It's a really annoying design and is prone to leaks and failure. Forgot if you can see your RPMs, but you should be getting to like 7k at full throttle. If you're just shy of that, it's probably your raves.
 
Thank you for all the information! I appreciate it very much.

1. Limited RPM and thrust:
- Checked gaps at thrust ring and impeller. Looked good. Impeller was very shiny and had no signs of physical damage. This had to have been replaced since this is a 1996.
- When I attach the DESS key, it gives me 2 chirps and it cranks. When I put drive forward or reverse it gives me 4 chirps and will not allow me to crank. I would assume this is not a switch issue then. Please validate this theory if you can.

Sounds like the switch is working, but I am still not convinced that the ignition circuit knows that it is out of neutral.

4. Checked all three fuses in the box and all were good. Checked connection at the fan and got 0 Volts. Yes, the fan switch was on. LOL.

Now this continues with my checking the main electric box. Also I have one red and two black wires attached to the battery:
The smaller black wire is the ground to your MPEM.

5. My electric box has 4 loose wires sticking out as part of the AS-IS purchase. This is 1 female red, 2 female yellow, 1 male yellow. None connected to each other. I tested voltage across them and got 12 volts across the 3 yellows when individually tested against the red. I did NOT try to connect any wires for fear of screwing something up.

- Upper 5 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 12 volts across it's plug.
- Lower left 5 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 12 volts across it's plug.
- Lower right 15 Amp fuse - fuse good. Read 0 Volts across it's plug. :facepalm: ****????***

Any insight available on this?

Charleston.

I am a little confused, but it may be your terminology of "across it's plug". If you measure the voltage across the fuse when it is installed in the circuit AND powered, you should get 0V as it is the same voltage on either side (12V in this case). So if you are measuring it in place as I've described, the fuses are bad. If you are measuring from one side of the fuse to ground, and then the other side to ground, it may tell you the fuse is good, but you may have power backfeeding and the fuse can still be bad. Just to verify, pull the fuses out and check the continuity. That will guarantee if it is good or not.

I still think the 3,500 RPM is suspiciously like the rev limiter. I would look at the wiring diagram for the rev limiting circuit as all the wires *should* go some place. Boat/Car wiring is absolutely no fun, but take it one circuit at a time. Connect a test light to the wires and flip switches on and off and see if you lose power. That will eliminate the easy things first.
 
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While it's on the trailer, put the boat in Neutral and rev it up. It should hit the stutter box around 3.5k rpm. Then move the lever to Fwd and rev it again. It should hit a stutter box noticeably higher than in Neutral. Also, make sure your reverse gate is actuating as it should. Maybe your cable's bust and you're just always stuck in Neutral.
 
# 4 above:
I checked the circuits with the fuse OUT. I would put a probe on both "seats" for the fuse to get the voltage. It turns out the fuse I saw 0V is actually for the charge system. Since the vehicle was not running, 0 Volts is correct.

Further reading and I have found there is TWO fuse boxes. Found the second one under the tool/fire extinguisher cubby. According to the diagram, Fuse 3 is for the blower and that had a blown 25A in it where there should have been only a 7.5A. Most likely from the bad blower I had to replace. They had also removed completely Fuse 1 which is for the sump pump. Checked voltage to the circuit box and the 4 fuse locations and installed fuse. BLOWER WORKS. Issue closed.

The big topic is #1 now: Low RPM, speed, thrust.
So I got it back together and started it up and it idles around 2300 rpm. I put it in reverse (in the driveway) and added gas. It went quickly spiked to 6500 rpm. I couldn't do this on the water. Not sure what to think about it. This should be a closed issue for the limiter switch.

Could this be only an issue with the engine under a load (in the water)? I have heard also the RAVE valves could affect this higher rpm range. I may tear into and clean the RAVES. Otherwise, we may try it on the water again Friday and see if things just worked their way out.

Charleston.
 
OK. It seems the error was on my side for uploading the pics of the initial project. This is a FIREFOX issue ONLY. IE7 works.

This is what I got for the initial project:
1996 Seadoo As-is (0).jpg1996 Seadoo As-is (1).jpg1996 Seadoo As-is (2).jpg1996 Seadoo As-is (3).jpg1996 Seadoo As-is (4).jpg

Charleston.
 
# Engine compression was completed and MAG cylinder (forward) pulled 150 while the other cylinder (aft) pulled 125. RAVE valves were removed and cleaned.


# 4 above:
The big topic is #1 now: Low RPM, speed, thrust.
So I got it back together and started it up and it idles around 2300 rpm. I put it in reverse (in the driveway) and added gas. It went quickly spiked to 6500 rpm. I couldn't do this on the water. Not sure what to think about it. This should be a closed issue for the limiter switch.

Could this be only an issue with the engine under a load (in the water)? I have heard also the RAVE valves could affect this higher rpm range. I may tear into and clean the RAVES. Otherwise, we may try it on the water again Friday and see if things just worked their way out.

Charleston.

If the limiter is not kicking in and per your post #5, if your compression is that different between the cylinders, this more than likely is your low power issues. Re-test now that your RAVE valves are cleaned and see what the results are. You are probably going to need a new motor if it tests the same as before.

Take the boat to the ramp, back it down, and start it up. Throw it in forward and see if it spins up. If it does, take it out for a spin and see how it works. I wouldn't get to far from the ramp tho. Running it out of the water tends to eat the carbon seals up. Then again, I have 2 lakes within 5 miles of my house, so it is easy for me.
 
I visited the RAVES over the weekend and things looked ok. Usual buildup of carbon, etc. I had previously posted that I had already serviced them, but I was in error. Never did this. Good news, intact. No cracks, etc. Bad news, looks like one bellows is starting to crack and will need replacement. Parts on order.

Friday we tried to get it out on the water to determine if the rpm issue was a load issue. No luck. Boat would not turn over. Crank crank crank and just when it gripped, it would stall out. New battery was already there. Plugs were fueled. Even tried cranking without plugs. Worked well without compression. After some tinkering the starter would no longer crank and only a clicking sound came from the electrical box. I replaced the starter relay (solenoid) and the new one clicked too. Test of amperage at batter, box, and starter showed 7+ Amps everywhere.

The parts center said it was most likely the starter. It took me 2 hours to get access and remove the starter. Inspection showed it crunchy/binding when turned. Maybe its bearings were toast. The one I got from the parts place was wrong but it turned smoothly. New started ordered from Ebay for half the price of the local store. Picture also shows correct compared to this alternate starter. Know more Friday.

I do have a question though about the disassembly findings. There was no oil or other fluids drained when the starter was removed. An inspection of the starter and a mirror inside showed more of an oil damp environment. Should this front housing have some fluid in it or be only "oil-damp"? I stuffed a rubber glove in the opening while I wait for my new starter to arrive. Is there anything special that should be done with installation. Should there be oil in this housing? If so, where would it be placed? I couldn't find anything anywhere on it.

Thank you...feel free to chime in on anything.
Charleston.
 
A little downtime (waiting for parts) gives you a chance to do the cosmetic chores. I found on a previous tag the use of a heat gun can bring back the original manufacturing colors raved by sun bleaching. I found using the heat gun on high and running it about 2-3 inches away from the plastics worked wonderful. It almost looked like I was spray painting the plastics. Here is the pics.

image1.jpegimage2.jpegimage3.jpegimage4.jpeg

Here is a pic of the new back seats re-upholstered and installed.
image6.jpeg

Charleston
 
Starter came yesterday and installed. Amazing how much faster you can install stuff after you have learned the proper contortion angles to work in a seadoo jet boat engine compartment. I gave it two test cranks and it came back to life. I should get the Raves seals today and hopefully be on the water this weekend.

My guess here is the starter was binding and would disengage too fast not allowing the motor to catch. My guess.

Charleston.
 
Rebuilt the rear RAVE valve which had a torn bellows. We took it out and we have the same exact issue. Boat will not push past 3200-3500 rpm. We even tried it out of water (limited load) and same affect but it gets closer to 3800 rpm WOT. If this was an impeller clearance issue we would be spinning and getting RPM with limited performance. Not the issue here.

From a sound issue it is cyclic with a ramp-up and then down when at Full Throttle.

I am leaning toward a full carb rebuild. If anyone has a better idea of troubleshooting path feel free to chime in. I also have a video showing the output.

[video]http://tinypic.com/r/2nbumwh/5[/video]
 
If you've already checked/changed the rectifier, check the neutral switch on the shifter. Otherwise if you haven't gone through te carbs yet given the condition the boat was in before I'd bet they need it. Badly.
 
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