98 GSX Limited- Fuel Return Fitting Broken

[Pope]

First off, thank you guys for sharing and cataloging so much stuff here. You've already been a huge help to me by reading what you have done or suggested to each other.

I bought my GSX limited in 2007. Have replaced engines after an oil pump failure, had the carbs rebuilt once and have rebuilt them myself once. Most recently I just went through them again after dragging the ski out of its resting place for the last 6 years (kids...).

Several years ago I was removing the fuel return line from the top of the carb and the nipple (fitting?) broke off. I worked around it by capping that side, adding a short hose with T fitting and running that as the return line and gas in line to the pto carb. It would run okay until full throttle it would run out of gas momentarily and then pick back up once you let out of the throttle.

I finally decided to buy the part and fix it properly. Then had kids. Just now doing so. It cranked within 30 seconds!! Gas was leaking from the return fitting. I tried to loosen the clamp and remove and the darn thing broke. Same freaking spot as the last time.

Any body else had this happen? Any answers to how to fix it without buying the part again? All help is appreciated.

 

[JeremyD615]

Unfortunately I think you’re going to have to buy another fitting. The fuel system is the last place you want to cut corners on these skis. Speaking of which, you’ve still got grey Tempo fuel lines. Those are more than likely the cause of your hesitation, and all of them need to come out of the ski ASAP. Then you’re going to have to rebuild the carbs again and replace the fuel selector. You’ve got a little bit of work ahead of you on this one...

 

[Pope]

Thanks Jeremy. I have actually replaced the tempo lines. What you see there is just new grey line.

I did find a few lines I didn't get the first time when I cleaned out the fuel selector.

There has to be a way to upgrade those pieces to brass or something. I can believe tightening a clamp and pulling would be enough to break it

 

[mikidymac]

Also replace the fuel selector, you can’t clean them and they will suck air and seize your engine.

 

[Pope]

@mikidymac - The ones I'm finding for $15 - $20 don't list the GSX has a compatible replacement. Google found me a replacement with the OEM part number for $50. Does that sound right?

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, $50 is correct.
You want WSM Part number 006-604.

 

[Pope]

quick update - got the fuel selector replaced. I'm trying to not buy another part and fix the one I have....so...I've tapped the aluminum block and put threads on a 1/4" barbed tee fitting and put those together. Seems to be working so far. The ski fired up within 20 seconds of hitting of the start button.

BUT...I must have messed up the screw settings in the carb when I removed them to clean them. As soon as it starts, the engine races to 7500 or so RPMs. I pulled the key (quickly) and hit the kill switch, but it didn't shut down until I hit the throttle.

I've tripled checked that the throttled plates aren't opened at all when the throttle isn't pressed. I found somewhere online that the low speed screws on top were 1.25 turns from flush and have made that correction. I haven't been able to get my eye (with a mirror) or hand on the the high speed screws (pop-offs) to see if they are set to the factory "0" or not. Any other thoughts of next steps?

 

[mikidymac]

You could have an air leak causing a runaway from the engine seals or the carb base gaskets.

Or.... the 951 is prone to runaways if the idle is set too high even if everything is perfect. It is the only seadoo that should have the idle set lower, 2800 out of the water and 1200 in the water. To kill a runaway pull the choke and do not rev a 951 up much out of the water or it can also run away.

 

[Pope]

@mikidymac - thanks for the response. I went back to torquing the carb bolts and found the top 2 were fairly loose. I know I tightened them up when I put them on...but maybe I just snugged them and didn't torque them after putting it on...

Anyway - I got those fixed and was able to get a screw driver on the low speed screw and high speed pop-offs on the bottom of the carb. I got the low speed set to 1.5 turns and high speed screws to 0. I was kinda thinking these could be the issue...but regardless I didn't know the settings after I had taken them out to clean and tried to just count turns out then back in.

Fired it up last night and it actually idled for half second or so before running away. Thanks for the choke tip...much faster and better shut down.

Are there any other common reasons for run aways aside from air leaks? The gaskets seemed to be in good shape when I put them on, but I'm considering just buying new ones to rule out that as the issue.

 

[mikidymac]

Never reuse carb gaskets.

This is from one of the all time seadoo guru's.

"Bill's top 12 causes of runaway 947/951 engines.

1. Most common reason is out of the water and the idle set just 100 to 200 rpm too high. The confusing part to a 947 newby is that all other 2 stroke Sea doo engine models are set to 3000 rpm out of the water, but a 947 idles perfectly in the water when you set the idle speed at 27-2800 out of the water.

2. Allowing the head to get too hot because it is running without water going through the motor when on the trailer.

3. And some of these next reasons could be a toss up in order, Replacing the carbs onto the engine for whatever reason and setting up the throttle cable adjustment too tight at the carb cable bracket, leaving the throttle plates slightly cracked open.

4. Clogged or partially clogged low speed jets.

5. Low speed adjusters are set too far in, not allowing enough fuel to pass at idle speed.

6. Water in the gas tank that ends up inside the carbs blocking fuel flow through the jets.

7. A poor job of keeping the carb base gaskets aligned when replacing the carbs onto the manifolds equals an air leak.

8. A pin hole or split in the plastic tubing that connects the engine case pressure fitting to the check valve in the rave valve pressure supply line, or a broken check valve in that same line. This allows air to go into the engine during up strokes, leaning out the mixture.

9. One stuck needle valve that will not open.

10. Rust inside the carbs, see #6.

11. A pin hole in the fuel pump pluse line.

12. A rod hanging out the side of the cases ( or just any crack or hole in the cases ). Do not laugh, I have had customers come in saying they needed a "tune up because the motor runs away on them " only to point to that rod hanging half way out of the motor and the lower case half nearly sawed in two.

Bill O'Neal
WCM "

 

[Pope]

@mikidymac thank you!!!! I'll order new gaskets and lesson learned.

I got the throttle cable loosened up and I think that was my problem.

 

[Pope]

@mikidymac Got the new gaskets installed and either that or loosening the throttle cable was the issue. I cranked it for a few seconds in the garage last week and was finally able to put it in a pond yesterday to run it for a bit to really test it. From reading the carb adjustment thread, I believe my low speed screws are too far in. Idled at 1100 RPMs but was rising at first to get there and then falling; didn't maintain a steady idle.

I'm assuming it was something about that mixture not being right that kept it trying to get going for a while. It did finally clear up a few times and ran hard in the higher RPM ranges. I forgot how much fun and how fast this thing is.

I pulled the book I have and saw a table that said the 98 GSX low speed screws should be set at 1 3/4 - 2 1/2 turns out from lightly seated. Can you please clarify whether those settings are for the PTO and then Mag or is that the acceptable range? Seems like a big range when it talks about adjusting 1/8 of a turn at a time....

 

[mikidymac]

Set both lows at 1-1/4 out from closed. MAG high should be closed, PTO high should be open 1/4 from closed. Idle rpm out of water set at 2,800.

 

[Pope]

Set both lows at 1-1/4 out from closed. MAG high should be closed, PTO high should be open 1/4 from closed. Idle rpm out of water set at 2,800.

I did this and had an out of water idle at 1250. I backed it out 1/4 turn and idled at 1290. Because it is only idling for a couple of seconds (very weary of running out of water), I'm thinking it needs more time to catch up to the adjustment...maybe??? Is this something to fine tune in the water??

Also - this is a dumb question....please forgive me... It seems that the idle adjuster screw is irrelevant in this process, right? From what I'm reading, it sounds like you want the low speed screws to adjust idle to the magical 2800 OOW or ~1300 in water idle. When would you use the idle screw to adjust idle versus the low speed screws?

 

[mikidymac]

No, you set the LS mixture screws per book spec on each carb.
THe idle screw is completely different and adjusts the idle speed, 2,800 out of the water.

 

[Pope]

Got the damn thing to the lake on Friday to finally let it run. Got it cranked on the trailer (adjusting idle screw). unloaded and fired it up but it didn't take off. Loaded back on the trailer and gas was pouring out of the front of the carb. The O ring next to the pulse line was in 2 pieces. Maybe it was not seated all the way as I was putting the pulse line housing back on or maybe it was just old and ready to go...but either way I'm one o-ring away from having this thing licked. Worst part is I think I have to order a whole new rebuild kit for one of those o-rings....right?

 

[mikidymac]

OSD Seadoo sells individual parts.

 

[Pope]

OSD Seadoo sells individual parts.

I'm going to owe you a drink or something for all of your help.

Just placed the order, thanks!

 

[Pope]

I got a little box in the mail yesterday from OSD!!

It's amazing how the right sized o-ring just lays in the groove. The kit also came with a gasket that I didn't have in my carb already, after research it looks like I was just missing the gasket between the pule housing and the plastic piece. Also found that the rubber diaphragm on the carb side of the pump was damaged. Glad I got it replaced. Everything fit back together and was bolted on in less than 3 minutes. All the fuel lines and pulse lines are hooked back up. I'll get the air box, battery and stuff back in today and then go test it again! I'm so excited to feel like I'm so close to being done.

 

[Ckrawiec]

I got a little box in the mail yesterday from OSD!!

It's amazing how the right sized o-ring just lays in the groove. The kit also came with a gasket that I didn't have in my carb already, after research it looks like I was just missing the gasket between the pule housing and the plastic piece. Also found that the rubber diaphragm on the carb side of the pump was damaged. Glad I got it replaced. Everything fit back together and was bolted on in less than 3 minutes. All the fuel lines and pulse lines are hooked back up. I'll get the air box, battery and stuff back in today and then go test it again! I'm so excited to feel like I'm so close to being done.

It IS a great feeling to almost being done......I fiddled with my '96 GTX for almost 2 years (on and mostly off) until I finally got her dialed back in (both carbs).....now the ski is back with a vengence.....running better than ever. It can be frustrating but all that is QUICKLY forgotten once you hit the water.....but just think of everything you have learned......knowledge is a beautiful thing....so SHARE your experiences and what you've learned....PASS IT FORWARD.

 

[mikidymac]

I got a little box in the mail yesterday from OSD!!

It's amazing how the right sized o-ring just lays in the groove. The kit also came with a gasket that I didn't have in my carb already, after research it looks like I was just missing the gasket between the pule housing and the plastic piece. Also found that the rubber diaphragm on the carb side of the pump was damaged. Glad I got it replaced. Everything fit back together and was bolted on in less than 3 minutes. All the fuel lines and pulse lines are hooked back up. I'll get the air box, battery and stuff back in today and then go test it again! I'm so excited to feel like I'm so close to being done.

If it is a brown/orange paper gasket it is not used and not sure why he is sending those out.

 

[Pope]

If it is a brown/orange paper gasket it is not used and not sure why he is sending those out.

black gasket. Not paper...feels like the carb mounting gaskets (whatever material that is)

 

[mikidymac]

Hmmmm, picture?

 

[Pope]

I already installed it. It is number 1 above.

 

[mikidymac]

Perfect! Yes that gasket is needed and the single biggest pain in the ass to remove when doing a carb rebuild.