5k RPM and 30 mph?????

[busterdoo]

I took the thing out today and had a good time on the water going 30 mph and never getting above 5k on the tac. Tonight I was cleaning the boat and discovered that the wear ring seems to have a rather large gap in it. I am no expert nor do I have the right tools to measure the gap but from what I could see, I could possibly fit a nickel (def. a dime) between the prop and the ring. Now I know that it is time for a new one at that gap but do you think that it would be the cause of my low speed and low rpm? Also, is it worth me ordering the ring, the prop puller tool, the smelly oil that goes in the cone and everything else to replace the ring, or just take it to someone to have it done? I am fairly mechnicaly inclined so I feel if it is not too bad of a project, I can do it myself.

HELP!

PS: Thanks to all that have helped me out in the past and I know that everyone is sick of getting wear ring questions without searching the thread but I have not found anyone with similar problems as me and I dont want to go spending the money if it is not going to help fix the problem. If I should just be satisfied with 30 mph then so be it.

Here are the previous post related to my boat and its saga if you want to read and see if you think the ring is the problem.
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=4503

 

[kustomkarl]

If the wear ring gap is wide...replace it. I gather you know the gap and way to check from your post. If you have a low rpm problem you have a separate problem. Check out this reference material;

Wear Ring clearance for your seadoo 1.0 mm or (.040in) Measure the clearance at the center of the impeller blades, with a 12” long gauge. Measure the clearance from the venturi side of the jet pump.

I hope this info helps you out...


Karl

 

[busterdoo]

I have the DI motor in the boat and it does not have a carb. I did look and both valves are wide open at full throtle. I almost think the boat is in limp mode or something like that. I dont get any beeps but for it to stop right at 5k something is wrong. Another thing that is strange is that I can be at WOT and the actual throtle arm is less than 1/2 way up on the control arm. I push it all of the way up in hopes that it will randomly "jump" into place.

Another thing I thought of was when I took the control assy. apart I noticed a switch under the gear arm that is pushed down when in neutral and up when in forward or reverse. Could that button be bad? If so, how could I check it? Also, could the RAVE selonoid be bad? I know that people say the raves do nothing on the DI motor, but just a thought. Finally, could the rev limiter be keeping the boat from going WOT and getting full speed? Is there a way to just check the limiter without having to replace the entire MPEM?

One last note, I did put Lucas Oil gas/injector cleaner in today and it didnt make a difference either.

Just trying to get the thing working. I am finally taking the wife on it tomorrow for the first time and we are going to try TRY to tube behind it. Dont know if it will pull it or not but I am itching to try.

HELP!!!!

PS: are any of you near the Lake Norman area in North Carolina?

 

[kustomkarl]

You are correct. I posted the wrong information in your thread. I will review the info you posted and post in the morning. The RAVE valves do help quite a bit on the horsepower end. Have the RAVE valves been cleaned at all say in the last year? If the seadoo was in limp mode it wouldn't be revving above 3000 rpms. The rev limiter is not settable either. It is part of the MPEM and can not be altered. Are you getting any beeps or anything? Get back to me with some info and I'll help you get it corrected.

Karl

 

[busterdoo]

The raves seem to go up and down fairly easily. I just got the boat a few months ago and have not cleaned them myself yet. I did notice that one of the valves didnt have a spring in it this past weekend while checking everything out. I went to the local hardware store and actually found two springs that were exactly like the original one.

I am not getting any additional beeps other than the two that I get when I put the lanyard on. I do have a very hard time keeping the boat running when at idle regardless if it is in forward, neutral or reverse. I have to start the boat 10-15 times before I get the engine reved up enough to keep it running. When running WOT if I drop the throtle all of the way to idle, the boat shuts off and starts to spin to the left (strange, I know but it always turns to the left when it shuts off).

Anything else I am missing?

 

[kustomkarl]

You need to replace those springs with the correct ones from seadoo. Here is some info on the rave valves;
The RAVE, (Rotax Adjustable Variable Exhaust) valves are located above the exhaust valve. There are 2 of them per engine. They are round with a red adjustment screw in the middle. It has a clip that holds it together. How they work is that they open the exhaust port larger as the engine rpm's increase. When the rpm's drop down so do the RAVE valves. They work on the principle of the pressure of the exhaust system. Rpm's increase, pressure increases and the valve opens, rpm's drop pressure drops, Valve closes. They should be de-carbonized annual. To disassemble the rave valves, remove the spring clip on top, remove the black cover. There is a spring under the cover. Remove the piston by turning it with a metric socket. On the bottom of the piston is the rubber "Bellows" be careful with the small retaining spring that hold the bellows on the piston. Remove the 2 allen screws that hold the base on the cylinder. Remove the base and gasket. The long valve won't fall in the cylinder just pull it out. There is an o ring under the base, on the shaft of the guillotine valve. Be careful to see how it came apart as it has to go back together that same way again. On the base, notice the notch that it is facing down. Clean all the carbon off the guillotine valve. I use carb cleaner and 400 grit paper. Check the bellows for any small pin holes. If so replace it. If not, reassemble it on the clean guillotine valve, and install it back on the engine the same way it came apart. The guillotine valve only fits one way. The one closest to the exhaust pipe will come off differently then the other one. You will have to remove the allen screws and turn the base so it clears the exhaust pipe. I would do one at a time in case you forget how it goes back together again. This way you can look at the other one and copy it. Do both engines 2 per engine. Take your time and if you have questions give us a shout. We'll be here to help you out.
If the RAVE valves are dirty it will not rev up correctly and could be causing your problem.

The adjustment knob (the red cap) should either be screwed all the way in or flush to the top of the black ring of the cap. This will only affect performance, as far as how it jumps out of the hole or how well it runs for extended periods at WOT.

The info is a little different because you have solenoids to activate yours. But the cleaning and everything else is the same.

I need to get some shut eye tonight, but i'll get some info for you in the morning...

Karl

 

[busterdoo]

Update

I took the wife out today and we had a good ole time tubing (trying to) for the first hour or so, then we cruised around and then sat in the water and just hung out. After hanging out we decided to get some lunch, I started the boat and it started on the first try! This was the first time sense Ive had the boat that it did that. We started to idle and then I floored the throtle as I have always done and all of the sudden, we were thrown back in our seats and the tac went to 7k!!!!!! :hurray: WOO HOO its working! Not so fast. After about 10 seconds of 7k and climbing to over 45mph the tac dropped to 4k and we couldnt get anything over 10-13 mph. We would shut the boat off and start it back up (still started on the first try and idled great) but nothing over 4k and 10-13mph.

I am convinced that either the fuel injectors are dirty, the gas is bad (still trying to burn the gas that was in it from when I bought it), or the computer is not acting right.

The only thing out of the norm was earlier in the afternoon we did get a very loud beep when we were trying to start the boat to move away from the shore. It only beeped once and then started right up.

Any ideas what could be the cause of this now?


Nick

 

[vicky]

03 GTX Di

same exact problem.We also thought same thing acts as if its in the learning key mode

 

[scooper77515]

Since we are discussing RAVEs

What is the difference between the red screw all the way in and flush to the top?

And what keeps the exhaust heat from getting to the rubber parts and ruining them?

 

[busterdoo]

on the water now & after 30 min of 4k and 13mph we turned the boat off & let it sit. after 10 min started it up and got to 30mph for 10 seconds. after that the only time it revs above 4k is if i am turning right. all the other times it is stuck on 4k. is my boat possessed?

 

[robin savell lloyd]

on the water now & after 30 min of 4k and 13mph we turned the boat off & let it sit. after 10 min started it up and got to 30mph for 10 seconds. after that the only time it revs above 4k is if i am turning right. all the other times it is stuck on 4k. is my boat possessed?

I am afraid that you may be right. {DI} POSSESSED Do a google search of all the good things that you read of the Seadoo DI engines and report back so that we will all know. No offence

 

[mjchevyss1]

I have the same problem. I first thought it was bad gas, and a tune up. I did plugs, a fuel filter and 93 octane to balance out, also adjusted the linkage on the VTS

Well nothing worked. Mine gets to 45 and once it heats up or let off the throttle I cant rev past 4k or 15mph.

I still think it is a fuel problem,
But something is heating up and seperating. In cars the Ignition modula goes alot and demonstraights the same aspects. Could it be an ignition problem, with the coils windings heating up? Could it be a fuel pump? I dont hink its bad gas anymore, I dont get a missfire though.

Mybe the rotax valve needs to be cleaned but will that cause this condition, IDK.

Many people have this problem We need to help each other out it has to be comon


I asked the dealer they said its a bad engine with low compression. I tested mine out it has 150psi both cyls

 

[mjchevyss1]

BUMP!!! help

 

[familyfun]

Count me in as another having that problem

Strange thing is, my left engine pulls 7300 RPM all the time, while my right only runs 4K. Every once and a great while the right will rev up and hit 7000, and you can feel the boost. The rest of the time, though, it has a 4K max. Seems to be a pretty common issue, and I look forward to hearing the answer. Wish I could help, but I am certain someone here will.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Coil windings.....?

That was par for the course in the older model car engines with standard igntion coils, but I don't know if that applies to you.

I'm looking a few things over with the info you put in, I'll edit this post within the next 30 minutes with anything I might be able to find that may help.

Thanks for the bump. I wish more members were as persistant. Things do get by ..........:cheers:

Sorry, it took me a bit longer than 30 minutes.........because there were three different problems in one thread. Please, start your own threads. You all have different motors.

First, "busterdoo".........your problems sound like they are going to be compressor or fuel pressure regulator related. The DI motor is not one of my favorite because it's such a hard motor to troubleshoot. The compressor controls the opening and closing of your RAVE system, actuated by an electric solenoid at the proper times to create the ponies. If the RAVE sticks closed, you'll have nice low end start, with a lack of power in the upper ranges. If they are closed or stuck in the closed position, then you'll have a hard time getting off the bottom but nice top end. Your fuel circuit is a bit complicated too. I see your not a premium member. Do you have access to a manual. You really need one to try and trouble shoot the components in your DI system. You may have a bad injector, but I think it's going to be something related to part of the fuel loop.

Second, "mjchevyss1"......your problem is nothing like busterdoo. You would do better in creating your own thread for your issue, as would "familyfun". Both you two have different boats and motor setups. Mjchevy, your boat has the 787 engine and is a very reliable engine, if you can get it tuned right. I'm going to have to go through some of your post to see what all you've done so far because not knowing if you've made any changes, my ideas could be mute. But, you seem to have either a problem with the syncronization of your carbs, or improper tuning. There is also a possibility that while your WOT (wide open throttle), your engine is heating up and with RAVE"s that may not have been cleaned in some time (once again, I don't know, I'll have to read more of your posting), they may be sticking open. With them sticking open, you'll not have the bottom end compression to create torque on the engine, to speed it back up. If the engine is running smooth, just a loss of power in the upper rpm range, it's going to be one of those two things.

Third, "familyfun".........the 717cc engine is even more simple than the 787cc. If your carbs have been seperated on that engine, it may be related to the syncro. I thought it may be in your neutral switch, but that would affect both motors. .......So, that doesn't leave much more to look at. If the rotary plate or carbs have been removed in the past, then sucking air can cause your problems. Because the 717 is so simple, it's probably something right in front of you, just hiding.

Good luck and if possible, I think you three would be best served making your own thread. None of you have the same engines or same problems. Only the same symptoms.....

 

[busterdoo]

Thank you so much for the detailed response and info with that. I took the boat out today and after a while I opened the engine cover and noticed the hose going to the RAVE valve closest to the front of the boat was busted. There was about an inch "gash" in the line. Any idea if what you mentioned about the compressor would have anything to do with that? I replaced the line and it did not help.

Ive noticed the last few days on the water than sometimes the boat will take off like a rocket and get up to 40 or so and other times the engine revs very fast to 5k and I cant get above 10.

HELP!

 

[seadoosnipe]

Solenoid....

Your electrical system may not be sending the signal to your solenoid to open the RAVE's.......if you found one of your compressor air lines broken, you may have trash in the sytem now. If I rememer right, there is a check valve on this system too.
I do remeber to test these type raves, your suppose to remove the cap and while under power, you should be able to visually see these valves move up and down with acceleration and decceleration. It's best you have someone along to drive the boat while you watch the response of the valves in relation to the response of the throttle.
Your saying you found a gash in the line, leads me to beleive that your solenoid/air compressor system to the RAVE's may need work.

 

[seadoosnipe]

PM....

I just sent you a PM.........:cheers:

 

[busterdoo]

Yet another thing!

*Sorry this is so long!*

Today I decided that I was not going to take the word of the perevious owner (nothing else he has told me was correct) and take the RAVE valves apart to clean them. Once I got everything off and down to the guilitine (sp?), I had to pry them out with a flat head screwdriver. They had so much oil and carbon build up on them it took me over an hour to clean each one. With everything put back together I decided to take it to the water and see if that had any affect on my problem.

I get on the water and still, no more than 5k on the tac and 30 on the speedo. I cruise around for about 20 minutes or so at WOT and for some reason decided to pop the hatch and see if screwing the caps in all of the way would make a difference or not. Well when the hatch was opened all I could see in the engine compartment was H2O!!!!! Water was everywhere. Luckly nothing standing in the bottom but some how water was getting inside and a lot of it at that. I started the motor with the hatch up and noticed at the rear of the engine (closest to the back of the boat) there was a spray about 6 inches wide shooting up to where the storage compartment sits into the boat. I shut the engine off and felt around for any cracked hoses or anything that I could feel and found nothing.

I got back to the dock without any additional trouble (although the thing sinking was about the happiest thing going thru my head at the time!). Took the thing home and decided to take the jet pump housing off and take it to the shop for the wear ring replacement (if you bring just the pump in the ring and replace is only $100!!!!!! pretty good deal if you ask me!). I got the pump off and headed up to the shop.

When I got to the shop they said they had a few minutes and would replace it then for me if I wanted. The tech went into the shop and I looked at new skis and within 5 minutes the tech came out and asked if I had a minute. I went into the shop to see the pump, prop, nose cone, and everything else lying on his work bench and little shards of metal all around it. The impropeler shaft was in a vise on the bench and was bent beyond belief. He said all of the oil was gone out of the nose cone, the bearings were so bad worn that they were just shards, the nose cone had been riped apart from the inside and the entire thing needed to be replaced! (the prop is still in OK shape). Well $530 bucks later I have a new jet housing coming in next week and hopefully a bit more speed and power when I get it put on and on the water.

So, any of you out there that are having speed problems and RPM problems, check you pump assys. and see if they are still in tack and working properly. The tech said this will give me more speed and less stress on the motor once I get the pump changed.

Now, that the novel is complete, does anyone have any idea what could be shooting the water into the engine compartment like that? I checked all of the hoses around the back of the motor and couldnt find any of them with a crack in it.

HELP!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

PS: I have also noticed when I pull the boat out of the water I am getting a lot of very thick grey/green oil or lube coming out of the drain plugs along with the water coming out. Could this have been the oil in the nose cone from the pump or is this coming from something else that may have led to the water fountain that I now have?

 

[familyfun]

Thanks for the tips!

I have been reading any threads I can involving low RPMs. You guys are awesome with troubleshooting ideas.

 

[busterdoo]

H2o

Any idea where the water could be coming from? What should I check first and how can I check it on land? I know to connect the garden hose, but how long can I leave the boat running with just that little supply of water? Also, do I need to start the boat first, then turn the water on, or can I turn the water on, then start the boat...... just stressed that I may cause more damage than already there if I dont do something right.

HELP!!!!!

Nick