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210hp M2 Rebuild not starting
- Thread starter Ed119
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Are spark plugs wet when you remove them?
Are all carbs full of gas?
Any loose wires?
Has ignition timing been properly set? With travel indicator that screws into cyl. #1.
Have you checked emergency kill switch function? You probably don’t want to hear~ what are your compression numbers?
tested stator and trigger - failed. I ordered a CDI. question now is CDI wire directions say yellow collar goes to piston 2-4-6. Manual says 1-3-5 as was wired that way with OEM. Will I mess anything up if it is wired backwards depending on which directions I follow. Waiting on new stator it tested bad also. Its weird B/C everything worked before I rebuilt.( Everything did sit in garage for few month before I put it all together though). : Back story I bought this without checking compression. only run test on hose. So this is new boat to me and obvious bad piston at purchase. And I never rebuilt an engine before period. But I dont think I did anything wrong B/C I followed manual and Im pretty mechanically inclined. It was fairly simple. thanks for reply
did all work myself. extreme novice but mechanically inclined. No smoke because it never started. did spark test no spark at all. tested trigger and stator both failed ohms test on 1 test point. ordered new parts. I think the thunk must have been just the motor abruptly stopping after just cranking a while. After testing spark and getting 0 obviously it didnt try to start. Trigger arrived but not stator. CDI part. Wiring directions says yellow collar goes to 2-4-6 but manuals say 1-3-5. Im now confused and scared to connect it backwards. Will it hurt anything if wired wrong. Yellow collar has the extra tan wire jumper that goes to control module I think.
No. That is the engine stator; AKA alternator. Are those chafe marks in the RH pic?
The stator does not move. They don't fail very often, unless you have a bad battery. That can burn up regulators which can burn up the stator.
The trigger fits inside the stator and moves with the throttle to change ignition timing.
When I had to change my trigger, I unplugged the bad one and plugged in the new one. 6 wire connector. Engine cranked right up.
Shortrun
Well-Known Member
Tim, yes those wires have damaged insulation and will require repair before install.
In my post i am trying to follow Ed with his wiring question. Although i am not much help to him, i am trying to learn things i may need this information shortly.
That's it. AKA timing base. Actually, 3 independent coils. Picks up magnetic pulse from center hub of flywheel.
Be advised- that is the old style insulation. Prone to crumbling and failure causing many intermittent problem. OK as long as it lasts. Make sure you route the wires properly when you re-install.
OK Got stator and trigger in and installed it as manual said since it was hooked up that way. I now get fire on all cylinders but still no start. best I got was a quick backfire and some smoke. I must be doing something wrong with timing but If I put flywheel on and cover on and turn it to where the gauge is at 0 in line with the arrow on the cover the #1 piston is at TDC. The rebuild Seemed pretty smooth set crank all ring gaps up, lined up dowels. Checked piston ring gaps oiled everything( maybe a little to much). Didnt mess with carbs or reed valves since as I said all worked fine except ran hot do to blown piston( only reason for rebuild). My compression does read only 90 but its a harbor freight gauge and its same on all cylinders as was on all cylinders before rebuild except the bad one was 0 so I figure harbor freight tool is crap. Specially since piston rings are new and gaps where in tolerance as per manual all that went smoothly.
Also it seems as starter drops out as soon as it gets a little resistance from motor maybe trying to engage. Not sure if explaining it accurate. But it turns over and over then the sudden deep thud almost like it would start if it would finish that revolution but it doesnt the starter gear drops out and I have to turn key again and start process of starting all over. Or sometimes it seems as if it pushes pass that with little resistance of maybe 1 second and just cranks again and again.
Sounds like your timing is off. You need a dial travel indicator to set it. Instructions in the book.
Compression is.... I hate to say-- Low. Ideally it would be 140psi. It might improve with operation. Any chance you can post a video of cranking?
Check your gauge against the gauge on your compressor.
yes I read up on setting timing with dial indicator just need to get one. I did get a little spudder and smoke today after fixing (throttle cam and roller wanst aligned). So it would appear to be as you said. I will set timing by book or atleast try to. And if that doesnt fix it I will post Video. Thanks for your help. If my questions seem Like I dont know anything sorry Its cause I dont. But will figure it out eventually.
figured why timing was out so bad. Throttle cable adjustable head must have been tightened to where it didn't match up with N mark. Starting over and following timing directions did it. But not before having to replace starter. It is amazing all the crap that just went out while engine was apart. Now Im getting overheat alarm. while on hose and water doesn't come out pee hole. haven't put it in water yet. Still tinkering. But Running is nice atleast I know I put it back together enough to start.
Do you know what head temp. should read with laser gun while Idle on hose. my manual only shows pressure not temp at 1100rpms and 2400 and 5300 rpms. I just started it this afternoon and alarm goes off after few minutes of running. s-side reads 145 and P-side read 135. Thinking maybe bad sensor or something to do with oil pump removed. Same alarm I think. Thanks for help because as I said Never done this before and all these problems keep making me feel like I did something wrong. Not sure what good running engine should sound like but nothing sounds any worse than it did before. 2 stroke kinda noisy anyway. oil mix is 20:1 instead of 25 so should be well oiled for break in.
Shortrun
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I don't know about the temperature, We are not that far along, our engine is still in pieces. I just wonder if a water hose does not have enough volume of water??
All my other 2 stroke machines use about 40:1 oil to gas so that is what I am familiar with. But I have been told to be careful about to much oil mix. The oil takes the place of the gas and this can create a lean condition. Which would make it run hot. Not sure if it is true. But it may be??
All my other 2 stroke machines use about 40:1 oil to gas so that is what I am familiar with. But I have been told to be careful about to much oil mix. The oil takes the place of the gas and this can create a lean condition. Which would make it run hot. Not sure if it is true. But it may be??
from what I read lack of oil is what makes it lean too much oil and its too rich causing plugs to get filed out. 25:1 is what manual suggest for break in. rebuilds. The hose cant be enough. Maybe someone can post a way to boost water volume on hose or some way to block it from blowing right out the bottom. I think I will pull plug on top of motor to see if water pushes to top of motor. Might have an air pocket trapped. Raining today so I cant mess with it. Thanks for reply.
Making progress is great. But.... let's not ruin it with a piston meltdown.
If you are not getting water from the pee hole, STOP running it!
Bugs build nests in the hose from head to pee hole. Get it cleaned out before running engine again. Engine does not have "air pocket space" if pee hole hose is clear.
If that hose proves to be clear, you may not have enough water flow in the hose. Hose should be 5/8 inside diameter minimum. There should be no extra fittings inline. Especially quick-connects. Keep hose as short as possible.
The casting under the engine has been known to fail. Corrosion eats a hole in it and lets water into the bilge.
If you can keep your hand on the cylinder heads, it is not too hot. Be careful of leaky spark plug wires and boots. 40,000 volts. Quite a surprise.
RPM- idle at 1200 on land. In the water, it will pull down to 1100.
There is no additional sensor associated with removing the oil pump.
25:1 fuel
il is plenty rich for break-in. Normal full throttle mix (with the oil pump) is about 50:1. Six gallons gas and one pint oil works out to 48:1. Close enough.
Starter- old one seems to need attention. Lube the helix shaft under the gear. Our starters are also known to need brushes every few years.
If you are not getting water from the pee hole, STOP running it!
Bugs build nests in the hose from head to pee hole. Get it cleaned out before running engine again. Engine does not have "air pocket space" if pee hole hose is clear.
If that hose proves to be clear, you may not have enough water flow in the hose. Hose should be 5/8 inside diameter minimum. There should be no extra fittings inline. Especially quick-connects. Keep hose as short as possible.
The casting under the engine has been known to fail. Corrosion eats a hole in it and lets water into the bilge.
If you can keep your hand on the cylinder heads, it is not too hot. Be careful of leaky spark plug wires and boots. 40,000 volts. Quite a surprise.
RPM- idle at 1200 on land. In the water, it will pull down to 1100.
There is no additional sensor associated with removing the oil pump.
25:1 fuel
il is plenty rich for break-in. Normal full throttle mix (with the oil pump) is about 50:1. Six gallons gas and one pint oil works out to 48:1. Close enough.Starter- old one seems to need attention. Lube the helix shaft under the gear. Our starters are also known to need brushes every few years.
I had whole engine completely apart and adapter off the boat. engine looks like new inside and out. definitely no corrosion any where. Also hoses are clear. When I bought it it never peed from the hole while on hose. I would say not enough hose pressure because the alarm is what started this project. It ran hot first time I took it out. Checked everything with cooling system then decided to check compression before taking heads off to look for internal blockage or leak. Found dead cylinder and thought that was it. Rebuild engine ran into all these electrical setbacks and now back to square 1 Over heat alarm. Now I pulled the plug on top and watched the water rise to the top. So engine is full just not enough pressure to pee it wont even push out top hole with plug out. Measured head with laser after 5 min. run time it read 150 at center cylinder top and cooler at bottom different temps all around on both heads starboard side is 5 to 10 degrees hotter than port. Tried pulling wires 1 at a time off sensor. alarm didnt silence. Then Solenoid stopped working wont restart tapped on it gets a few cranks and cuts out before starting engine. So I quite and ordered one. This project is certainly sharpening my troubleshooting skills. But since I never done any of this before it makes me second guess if I did something wrong. But that is usually how electronics goes 1 thing after another. Engine running sounds as good as any 2 stroke to me but what do I know. See attached video for your opinion is appreciated.( video is around 1200rpms). Still a little sluggish to start first time. I'm wondering if the enrichment solenoid is bad b/c it seems to start easier after I press the manual button a few times. Start Solenoid will be in Sat. Guess I will mess with it again on Sunday. Thanks for your help.
Sounds about normal. Hard to tell, but maybe 1 or 2 cyl. not firing. Hard to tell on a V6 without pulling spark plug wires. 40,000 volts!!! It will be quieter in the water because the water will drag on the impeller, reducing gear noise.
CHANGES START SOLENOID ENGING STARTS AGAIN. NOW BACK TO OVERHEAT ALARM. GOES OFF RIGHT AWAY ON HOSE. Temp. rises to about 150 before I turn it off. Its on 3/4 HOSE but still doesnt pee on hose. I removed plug on top of motor watch water rise to top of motor but sits never builds up enough pressure to come out top plug. Tested all sensor leads no continuity from ground to blue tan wires both sensors. not continuity blk/tan wires to ground. sensor with both blk tan wires, blk, blue/tan on starboard side ohms test at 100 degrees and 150 degrees both in range as per chart in manual. port side with single blu/tan wire ohms blk lead to ground red lead to blue/tan a single wire to sensor gets nothing even if I boil it in water. not sure if I am testing it right though. Any advise? Not Sure if this is running hot or sensor is bad. No clogged hoses and no clogs in motor I had it completely apart.
Shortrun
Well-Known Member
You are definitely right into it. Awesome job Ed. If the overheat sensor alarms is in right away (before the engine even warms up) that must be telling us something.
Every engine i have ever worked on you have at least 30 seconds of running with no coolant. Before there is any heating problem. Usually more.
Every engine i have ever worked on you have at least 30 seconds of running with no coolant. Before there is any heating problem. Usually more.
I did ohms test on starboard side it tested good. the one on the port side I get nothing but it is different cause it only has the 1 wire. Should it be reading anything when I test ohms from tan/blue to ground? When I did continuity test I got nothing and thats what manual says you should get. Unless I tested it wrong. Should I just Buy another sensor for the hell of it. All these parts are adding up Id rather not buy something I dont need.
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