2004 Seadoo Supercharged sat for 10 years

[thejuice48]

My friend who was immaculate on maintaining his ski let it sit for 10 years inside his garage. When you look inside, it looks and smells like new. He needed to get it out of his garage so I drove to pick it up. The steering is smooth. The reverse is smooth. OPAS block offs installed. Supercharger clutch was changed to metal before it busted. He installed larger opening intake grate, an upgraded impeller, and a stainless steel wear ring.

First day (6/22/2024):

• Sucked out all the gas (approx 7 gallons)
• An oil change to 10w 40 Mobile 1 racing oil for wet clutches (this is what we all ran in our 4-Tec supercharged engines) The oil was maple syrup colored.
• When doing the oil change I noticed that the oil filter cup was leaking from the top, but of course I replaced the o-rings at the top.
• Installed temporary cheapy battery from Walmart with 400 cranking

Turned it it over with no gas in it just to see if it would turn. First two attempts at start I could hear the starter spin, but not engage. It finally did fire, but died, because no gas. After that, just chunk, chunk, chunk. Which got quieter with each turn, like it was draining battery. So I thought, ok, crappy Walmart battery.

(6/23/2024):

• Changed the spark plugs
• Sprayed Seafoam deep creep down each plug hole
• Tried to turn it over without spark plugs in engine seemed like it wanted to move but didn't.
• Sprayed Seafoam deep creep on both sides of the jet pump (underneath and from the rear)

Banshee battery arrived (6/27/2024):

• Installed Banshee battery
• Cleaned up ground cable on engine (surface rust but not corroded)
• Dropped the screw for the battery into the hull, so I tried using my shop vac to get it out and ended up with some slimy oily water (light brown).
• Tried turning it over, and chunk chunk, then just chunk....chunk... chunk

(6/28/2024):

• Got underneath and used a wooden dowel to see if the impeller would move. It did, about 1/4 of an inch
• Pulled pump just to make sure it was not locked due to swollen SS wear ring. It wasn't spins well.
• Bought a spline tool that Seadoo doesn't make so I can turn over the engine CCW from the rear with a ratchet to see if the starter might be the problem before going through the hassle of removing it.

NOTE: My buddy said when he first got the ski he had a problem with the starter several times, and took it in for repair under warranty. The starter feels very clean. The positive looks good. The surface looks good.

If I can get the engine to move with the spline tool, the engine is not locked, so I'm thinking starter relay and/or starter.

Thoughts?

 

[ski-d00]

Take the spark plugs out and see if it cranks over.

 

[thejuice48]

Take the spark plugs out and see if it cranks over.

I forgot to include that as something I did on the day that I replaced the spark plugs.

I looked down the plug holes and the engine seemed like it wanted to turn over but couldn't. I wasn't sure if it was the battery, or pump, or ? So That's when I focused on the pump.

Also tried to crank it over (flooded) with the pump off just to see if it would turn over. Still just chunk chunk.

 

[thejuice48]

When I first tried to start it with no fuel this is what it sounded like:

20240624_190121.mp4

Then after it started up and died once, it went to this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W1zdz8Rp1Af5GL3J3myDY9APDnLPipSM/view?usp=drive_link

Plugs had no water or moisture on them when pulled:

20240626_102411.jpg

This brand new battery shows 12.6V at rest. When I try to turn over the ski it drops down to 8V. It is a Banshee, with a four year warranty and has 500 CCA.

The sound coming from it when trying to start sounds different than the starter solenoid. But the starter solenoid is easier to replace.

 

[thejuice48]

No one else has a comment?

 

[thejuice48]

Today I pulled the starter relay because to test it on the ski is impossible with only two hands. The ohms over the male two prong connector bounce around and settle at 6.2ohms.

The two new ones I purchased don't help me figure out if it's bad or not.

One tests at 45.4 ohms and the other at 5.00 ohms.

Posts on forums indicate on the ski ohms should test no higher than 1 ohm when starter is pressed.

I have not applied power to it as I do not have quick clips and the high voltage which it puts out.

Not sure which one to install or if the starter relay is good.

Any ideas? The only test in the manual is on the ski.

 

[ski-d00]

If it clunks hard when you press the start button, that is the engine not turning over for some reason. Could be seized piston, could be hydro locked, could be supercharger, etc. When the solenoid fails, you will only hear a slight click from it. If I had to guess, I would put my money on the supercharger bearing. When they sit for that long, the nylon spacers in the supercharger bearings will get brittle and break. So what it does is if you crank it over a few times until that spacer lets the ball bearings move around and then it will lock up which is where I think you are at right now.

 

[thejuice48]

What about if he had the supercharger clutch replaced with a SS one?

However, if that's the case, then what I do I do to get this running?

 

[ski-d00]

The sc clutch has nothing to do with the sc bearings. Seadoo recommends a complete rebuild every 2 years for the sc or 200 hours. My opinion is every 4-5 years or 100 hours. It's simple to check the sc. Remove the center intake hose and wiggle the impeller back and forth. It should have free play where it moves a little back and forth. If it has no movement, your sc is locked up. With it being that old, I would just pull the sc anyway and rebuild it. To remove, unbolt the exhaust clamp and a couple small water hoses and slide the waterbox back about 3 or 4 inches. Then remove both the sc intake and exit hoses and the 3 E8 bolts. Twist, wiggle, and pull and it will come out. You can then crank the engine over with the sc removed to see if cranks over like it should.

 

[dcm0123]

There are brushes in the starter which could be part of your problem. Corrosion of the mating brass surface over time can cause poor contact. It can corrode more from sitting than beings used because it cleans itself while it spins.
If the starter is spinning full speed and the engine is not, your problem could be the clutch/bendix which is inside the PTO housing.

Suggestions on how to trouble shoot starter-
Pull all plugs and make sure engine will rotate with the tool you bought.
I would disconnect the starter cable at the relay and and using a good set of copper jumper cables, jump it to the battery. You will get a spark when doing this so make sure the area is well vented.
Still not spinning- connect the ground jumper cable between the battery and the engine to bypass the ground wire.
Still nothing- do the same using a known good car battery.
Still nothing- buy an install another starter. There are only 2 bolts holding it in but may require some prying to slide it out of the engine. Grease the hole it comes out of to make it easier to slide in.

If it spins "full speed" but does not crank the engine, your problem is likely the clutch/Bendix which is a major project.
If motor does crank, work your way back through the system testing one component at a time using a known good battery.

 

[thejuice48]

There are brushes in the starter which could be part of your problem. Corrosion of the mating brass surface over time can cause poor contact. It can corrode more from sitting than beings used because it cleans itself while it spins.
If the starter is spinning full speed and the engine is not, your problem could be the clutch/bendix which is inside the PTO housing.

Suggestions on how to trouble shoot starter-
Pull all plugs and make sure engine will rotate with the tool you bought.
I would disconnect the starter cable at the relay and and using a good set of copper jumper cables, jump it to the battery. You will get a spark when doing this so make sure the area is well vented.
Still not spinning- connect the ground jumper cable between the battery and the engine to bypass the ground wire.
Still nothing- do the same using a known good car battery.
Still nothing- buy an install another starter. There are only 2 bolts holding it in but may require some prying to slide it out of the engine. Grease the hole it comes out of to make it easier to slide in.

If it spins "full speed" but does not crank the engine, your problem is likely the clutch/Bendix which is a major project.
If motor does crank, work your way back through the system testing one component at a time using a known good battery.

So today was an early day. Started at Harbor Freight buying a 3/8" breaker bar and extension. Removed the plugs, etc. Used the spline tool with a socket that is for my BMW oil filter cover. The engine will turn about 90 degrees counter clockwise, so if you're looking at a clock, think of 15 minutes CCW. Then it wants to snap back clockwise. Thinking that's good because that means good compression? Can't get it to go any further than that. Should I be able to fully turn it CCW a whole clock cycle?

 

[dcm0123]

To be safe, remove the plugs and you will not have the compression. Leave them out while you test the starter.
If the starter rotates it, put them back in and test again.
I am not sure if these are CCW or a CW rotating motors. Maybe someone else knows.

 

[ski-d00]

It should turn freely both directions. It snaps back because of the valve spring pressure. Take plugs out and try again. If it stops at all, your engine is locked up as I explained above.

 

[thejuice48]

So today was

It should turn freely both directions. It snaps back because of the valve spring pressure. Take plugs out and try again. If it stops at all, your engine is locked up as I explained above.

@ ski-d00 Were you referring to the SC test? Is there a video out there for this? I'm looking all over youtube. Not sure which hose is the center hose, etc.

 

[ski-d00]

No, the engine should fully turn and not have any stops whatsoever. Of course there will be resistance due to the opening of valves but you should easily be able to overcome that with steady pressure while turning your 1/2" ratchet on the driveshaft. It will also have areas that will pull itself around by the valve spring pressure as well. The point is that if you have any stop position where it won't turn at all, then your engine is locked up quite possibly by your supercharger bearings. You should have checked the supercharger free play which takes 2 minutes before doing all of this.

 

[thejuice48]

So today was an early day. Started at Harbor Freight buying a 3/8" breaker bar and extension. Removed the plugs, etc. Used the spline tool with a socket that is for my BMW oil filter cover. The engine will turn about 90 degrees counter clockwise, so if you're looking at a clock, think of 15 minutes CCW. Then it wants to snap back clockwise. Thinking that's good because that means good compression? Can't get it to go any further than that. Should I be able to fully turn it CCW a whole clock cycle?

No, the engine should fully turn and not have any stops whatsoever. Of course there will be resistance due to the opening of valves but you should easily be able to overcome that with steady pressure while turning your 1/2" ratchet on the driveshaft. It will also have areas that will pull itself around by the valve spring pressure as well. The point is that if you have any stop position where it won't turn at all, then your engine is locked up quite possibly by your supercharger bearings. You should have checked the supercharger free play which takes 2 minutes before doing all of this.

So how do I check supercharger free play? One of your posts has me removing multiple parts and moving them around -- which is not likely to be 2 minutes. Can you please clarify the process to check supercharger?

 

[ski-d00]

It's simple to check the sc. Remove the center intake hose and wiggle the impeller back and forth. It should have free play where it moves a little back and forth. If it has no movement, your sc is locked up.

 

[thejuice48]

Back and forth as in left to right? How much is a little play? Moving it left and right it clanks but it moves less than probably a 1/16th of an inch.

 

[ski-d00]

Yes, that's good and what it should feel like. Now put a 17mm on the center nut and try to turn the engine over by turning ccw, it's a left handed thread. Do not turn cw or you will loosen the nut. The engine should turn over doing this and you should be able to turn the engine over several rotations.

 

[thejuice48]

Yes, that's good and what it should feel like. Now put a 17mm on the center nut and try to turn the engine over by turning ccw, it's a left handed thread. Do not turn cw or you will loosen the nut. The engine should turn over doing this and you should be able to turn the engine over several rotations.

Looks like there's a plastic cap over the nut, but even more disturbing it looks like chunks of metal have broken off the housing?

20240707_102924.jpg

 

[ski-d00]

There's no plastic cap, that is the nut. It's called an acorn nut. The little bit of material missing is from when they balance the impeller wheel which spins at 35k rpm so has to be perfectly balanced. Everything looks good there, now turn the engine over with the spark plugs out.

 

[thejuice48]

There's no plastic cap, that is the nut. It's called an acorn nut. The little bit of material missing is from when they balance the impeller wheel which spins at 35k rpm so has to be perfectly balanced. Everything looks good there, now turn the engine over with the spark plugs out.

The two chunks on the left upper side are a little bit of material? Every single picture of a SC out of a ski don't have anything like that.

 

[ski-d00]

Well, you need to look at more pictures then. Yes, the two chunks, as you call them, are a little bit of aluminum material where they take the mill and remove material to balance the wheel. Some have them, some don't. Most of the newer wheels don't have them but almost all them will have mill holes on the back side for balance as well. They are spin balanced to absolute precision similar to airplane turbines. BRP makes airplanes as well.

 

[thejuice48]

Well, you need to look at more pictures then. Yes, the two chunks, as you call them, are a little bit of aluminum material where they take the mill and remove material to balance the wheel. Some have them, some don't. Most of the newer wheels don't have them but almost all them will have mill holes on the back side for balance as well. They are spin balanced to absolute precision similar to airplane turbines. BRP makes airplanes as well.

I am able to turn the nut on the SC CCW with a ratchet. But the pistons don't seem to be moving in the engine. I put a 1/4 extension down there to see if they moved. What next?

 

[ski-d00]

See if the engine cranks over. If it cranks a little bit and then locks up, check the sc play again. It's very possible that the bearings are still bad. Just had a thread on this a week or two ago that I talked them through it where the sc would spin by hand fine but not in the ski and was the sc bearing.