Oh, I forgot to mention that. It is a brand new starter as well. I've replaced so many parts on here, I should have just bought a whole new engine, but I'm too far into it now. I'll check the voltage to confirm that there is no draw on the system.
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2001 Speedster 240efi siezed??
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Oh, I forgot to mention that. It is a brand new starter as well. I've replaced so many parts on here, I should have just bought a whole new engine, but I'm too far into it now. I'll check the voltage to confirm that there is no draw on the system.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, a bad reg will keep it from running. OK... so your pump is flowing fuel... but if the regulator is allowing it all to return, and you have ZERO pressure in the rail (or very low pressure) then you won't get any fuel out the injectors. AND... on that point... just because the pump can flow fuel, doesn't mean that it can make pressure.
You can check it with a tire gauge... but be ready to be sprayed with fuel. I recommend something that will thread, or clamp on, so you get a good reading.
Off the top of my head... you need to be in the low 40 psi range. (I can look up the exact pressure later)
No... the pump and injectors ARE NOT on the same system. BUT... all the injectors are together.
No... but if the battery is weak... and the voltage sags... the computer won't "come to life", but the engine will continue to crank. Have you checked the voltage as you crank??
As a final question... do you have the manual for your engine? It's WAY to complex to try to work on it, without one. It will tell you how everything is wired, and how they function together.
Update: Injectors, fuel rail, etc, etc were checked by my mechanic friend. They are completely clean, filters and all, so he didn't bother putting them in the parts cleaner. he bench tested each of the injectors and they all work.
I do have the manual. I am lost with it, so I would be totally lost without it...
We're going to check voltage tonight and he's checking the fuel regulator now to see what it look like. The more we talk about it, the more I'm leaning towards regulator. I never took it apart when I did the rebuild. The fuel that was in the separator was pretty bad when I dumped it out before the rebuild and I bet the regulator is either clogged or completely toast....Well, I'm hoping anyway as I'm running out of options.
One more quick question. The lanyard switch(tether) is supposed to cut power to the boat when detached, however I noticed last night that the starter still cranks over whether the lanyard is attached or not. Is this supposed to happen?
I do have the manual. I am lost with it, so I would be totally lost without it...
We're going to check voltage tonight and he's checking the fuel regulator now to see what it look like. The more we talk about it, the more I'm leaning towards regulator. I never took it apart when I did the rebuild. The fuel that was in the separator was pretty bad when I dumped it out before the rebuild and I bet the regulator is either clogged or completely toast....Well, I'm hoping anyway as I'm running out of options.
One more quick question. The lanyard switch(tether) is supposed to cut power to the boat when detached, however I noticed last night that the starter still cranks over whether the lanyard is attached or not. Is this supposed to happen?
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So more testing last night. With the manifold off, I checked to see that the reeds were in place and functioning. Everything looked good. Regulator was dirty, so we disassembled it and completely cleaned it. Cleaned out the vapor separator and fuel pump filter while we were there. Checked compression. 138-140 on each cylinder. Disconnected air, temp, and TPS sensors to eliminate that as a problem. Engine is still not getting fuel to the cylinders. We ran a pressure test on the Schrader valve in the VTS after letting the pump cycle for 10 seconds. 35 lbs consistently so the regulator must be good. I think this narrows it down to an electrical problem. We ran out of daylight, so we were not able to test the voltage at the solenoid when cranking it over. That is step 1 tonight.
It appears that someone disabled the lanyard switch cutoff, but I don't think that makes a difference on the engine since it is still getting spark. So what are my options? broken wire in the casing? corroded wire? missing or switched connection?
I have two wires right now that don't go to anything. They are on the starboard side near the solenoid and have the bullet connectors on them. one is green/white and the other is tan or brown. They were never connected to anything even before the rebuild and there are no other connections nearby where they could go. I just assumed that these connections don't apply to this motor, or are for an accessory that is not on this motor. I can't find these wires on the wiring diagram either. Is this a problem?
Sorry for the long post. Lots of info to cover.
It appears that someone disabled the lanyard switch cutoff, but I don't think that makes a difference on the engine since it is still getting spark. So what are my options? broken wire in the casing? corroded wire? missing or switched connection?
I have two wires right now that don't go to anything. They are on the starboard side near the solenoid and have the bullet connectors on them. one is green/white and the other is tan or brown. They were never connected to anything even before the rebuild and there are no other connections nearby where they could go. I just assumed that these connections don't apply to this motor, or are for an accessory that is not on this motor. I can't find these wires on the wiring diagram either. Is this a problem?
Sorry for the long post. Lots of info to cover.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
No... it doesn't cut the power. It grounds/drains the CDI's. (and kills the spark)
That's not an issue, since you get spark.
I have two wires right now that don't go to anything. They are on the starboard side near the solenoid and have the bullet connectors on them. one is green/white and the other is tan or brown. They were never connected to anything even before the rebuild and there are no other connections nearby where they could go. I just assumed that these connections don't apply to this motor, or are for an accessory that is not on this motor. I can't find these wires on the wiring diagram either. Is this a problem?
Sorry for the long post. Lots of info to cover.
Those 2 wires are for un-used gauges. (water pressure and oil, as I recall)
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
OK.........
So.....
1) you had the ECU rebuilt, and verified.
2) You've verified fuel pressure
3) You've verified the injectors.
4) The external sensors can all be disconnected, other that the MAP, and the RPM trigger. (MAP is verified from the ECU rebuild)
5) Reeds, compression, spark are good
So... that leaves:
1) Make sure the ECU is seeing a Tach signal.
2) Make sure the wiring between the ECU and injectors is OK.
There is a test harness, that allows you to watch the Injector pulses. But... you can check the harness while it's apart... and you can tap into it, to check the power.
So.....
1) you had the ECU rebuilt, and verified.
2) You've verified fuel pressure
3) You've verified the injectors.
4) The external sensors can all be disconnected, other that the MAP, and the RPM trigger. (MAP is verified from the ECU rebuild)
5) Reeds, compression, spark are good
So... that leaves:
1) Make sure the ECU is seeing a Tach signal.
2) Make sure the wiring between the ECU and injectors is OK.
There is a test harness, that allows you to watch the Injector pulses. But... you can check the harness while it's apart... and you can tap into it, to check the power.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
So... reflecting on #1...
Coming from the ignition module... there is a green, G/Y, and G/R wire going directly to the ECU. I'm going to assume that's where the tach signal is coming from. Since the ECU batch fires the injectors... it only needs 3 signals.
SO......
Make sure they have a clean conection from the ignition unit, to the ECU.
AND.....
like I was saying before... the ECU controls the ground on the injectors. So... as far as I can tell... the Red wire in the injector harness should have power on it. (but let me dig, and verify that)
*****EDIT*****
OK, it's verified. The red wire should have power on it, when the ECU is energized. So... make sure they have power when you crank.
Coming from the ignition module... there is a green, G/Y, and G/R wire going directly to the ECU. I'm going to assume that's where the tach signal is coming from. Since the ECU batch fires the injectors... it only needs 3 signals.
SO......
Make sure they have a clean conection from the ignition unit, to the ECU.
AND.....
like I was saying before... the ECU controls the ground on the injectors. So... as far as I can tell... the Red wire in the injector harness should have power on it. (but let me dig, and verify that)
*****EDIT*****
OK, it's verified. The red wire should have power on it, when the ECU is energized. So... make sure they have power when you crank.
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ok, so i've got good news to report. we've found the issue. engine still doesn't fire but we know the problem. there is a major draw on the voltage. it's reading under 9 volt's at the solenoid when cranking. we started cleaning connections on grounds and at the solenoid, starter, etc. ran a new line fron the battery to the solenoid. still only reading 9 volts. so obviously there is no reading at the injector harness as it doesn't have enough power to fire. what could be drawing on the system. there is some surface corrosion on the stator. is the solenoid bad? do i have a crossed connection somewhere?
The battery is new, and fully charged. I bought it last fall, and the boat has never run on that battery except for the testing we've been doing, and it's been connected to a battery tender the whole time. Its an Everstart, 750 MCA. I think we've eliminated the battery as the problem because we jumped it off of the battery in my 2013 Jeep. Still only getting 9 volts. Something is pulling some serious draw on the system.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
OK... I have a few points here....
OK. But, I've seen a BUNCH of batteries that were bad "Out of the box". So, new isn't an argument.
That's not a good thing. A battery tender can boil a battery... or cause the plates to "Sulfate". You should hook it up for a day or two... and then take it off. Then... 3~4 weeks later... hook it up again for a couple days. Leaving a tender on all winter can kill a battery.
That's strike 3. If you see my comments above (is it a real brand?) This is exactly why I asked. Wal-Mart batteries are the worst I've ever seen. They are hit and miss. You may get a good one... but you may get 4 bad ones first. They are made by Johnson Controls... but they are very low spec, to get Wal-Mart their price point.
Besides... if you had a "True" draw on a GOOD battery to sag it to 9v... then there would be red-hot wires, and smoke somewhere.
So... there is a chance I can be wrong... but I think you've done a lot of work, over a questionable battery.
OK. But, I've seen a BUNCH of batteries that were bad "Out of the box". So, new isn't an argument.
That's not a good thing. A battery tender can boil a battery... or cause the plates to "Sulfate". You should hook it up for a day or two... and then take it off. Then... 3~4 weeks later... hook it up again for a couple days. Leaving a tender on all winter can kill a battery.
That's strike 3. If you see my comments above (is it a real brand?) This is exactly why I asked. Wal-Mart batteries are the worst I've ever seen. They are hit and miss. You may get a good one... but you may get 4 bad ones first. They are made by Johnson Controls... but they are very low spec, to get Wal-Mart their price point.
Besides... if you had a "True" draw on a GOOD battery to sag it to 9v... then there would be red-hot wires, and smoke somewhere.
So... there is a chance I can be wrong... but I think you've done a lot of work, over a questionable battery.
buckeye_paul
New Member
The easy way to check is disconnect the battery and check it with a meter.
Sorry, I meant that I kept the tender on the battery when we are working on it and cranking it over. I haven't kept it plugged in since last year, or for extended periods. I probably should have bought a better battery, but is reads 12.8 volts at the posts and we used the battery on my jeep too just to make sure that wasn't the problem.
I'm testing it on the solenoid side opposite the incoming cable off the battery. We did try going direct with some heavy gauge amplifier cable I had. No change. I will tell you that the interstate had less drain at 9.9 volts where the Everstart was more like 9 volts. I traced all the grounds and they all look good. Cleaned them just to be sure. And we cleaned all the connections on incoming power from the battery as well. Only place I didn't look was pulling the flywheel to check the stator. I know there has to be some surface corrosion on it, but I'm getting good spark so I don't suspect that would be the issue. Could the solenoid be bad. Could there be a draw at the front of the boat in the ignition or with all the accessories like the bilge, blower, lights, etc? Do I just need a bigger battery. I read online that the Optimax motors require 1000 cranking amp batteries. I know this is not the Optimax, but with everything being new and rebuilt, maybe it is just tight and requires a lot of power to turn over until it gets broken in.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
The Opti engine does take a good amount of power... but I thought you had a regular EFI? The standard EFI engines will start with a weak battery... but the voltage has to stay around 10.5v or the ECU will shut down. (and no fuel)
Do this.....
Put you meter on the high pressure fuel pump. (red wire, and ground) You should have battery voltage. Then... crank. See if the voltage is dropping within the harness.
Do this.....
Put you meter on the high pressure fuel pump. (red wire, and ground) You should have battery voltage. Then... crank. See if the voltage is dropping within the harness.
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