Hey everyone. New to this forum. I just picked up a 2001 Speedster with the 240 efi motor in it. Hour meter reads just over 100 hours. Owner told me the engine needed work so there were no suprises when I went to start it and the flywheel won't even turn. I didn't pay a thing for the boat either. Just traded it for an old boat I had lying around, so I'm not afraid to spend some money to fix it. Here's my issues: As I said the starter engages but won't turn the flywheel. All the electrical seems good and the battery is fresh. Can't turn the flywheel by hand either. There is also a cable that is just lying on the bottom port side of the boat unattached. It looks like a throttle cable, but it can't be because the throttle cable is still attached above. I really need to get the motor out of the boat. Is there a way to pull it out without the special eye tool that screws in? I have the service manual and am ready to do work. :thumbsup: Does anyone have any idea of where my issues are, and what this cable thing is?
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2001 Speedster 240efi siezed??
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
The extra cable is probably the steering system. When you get close to the ends... it will add a little throttle.
You can bolt a chain anywhere you want... but you can get the eye from ebay for about $35. Also... the eye I bought is a lifter, and it works as the flywheel puller. So, I would recommend buying one.
Check eBay # 270973245962
As far as the problem... who knows at this point. BUT... the gear that spins the oil pump is plastic, and it's known to give up.
You can bolt a chain anywhere you want... but you can get the eye from ebay for about $35. Also... the eye I bought is a lifter, and it works as the flywheel puller. So, I would recommend buying one.
Check eBay # 270973245962
As far as the problem... who knows at this point. BUT... the gear that spins the oil pump is plastic, and it's known to give up.
Cool, I think I'll pick one up. Any idea where i can get the impeller socket for cheap?
Well I got the motor out of the boat. I'm going to start tearing into it to see why it is seized. My suspicion is that plastic oil drive probably broke, like so many others here have talked about. I noticed that when I look at a parts schematic, there are two different part numbers for that plastic piece. One says design I, and the other says design II. Both appear to be compatible. Any idea what the difference is?
I have started doing the teardown of the motor. Wow! There is a lot of electrical components on this thing. I'm used to the rotax engines. I numbered connections as I took them off, and took tons of pictures so I can go back and look if need be. Anyway, I got the cylinder covers off and the bottom port side piston is toast. The cylinder walls look ok. Some minor scuffing, but I think a hone will fix this. The dome is pretty bad too from what I assume is pieces of the rings being smashed into it. All the other pistons and cylinders look brand new. What would cause this one piston to fail where the others are fine?
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
I've noticed that also. BUT... the $40 kit should be both sides, and the bolts. Since all of the on-line places feed from the same parts system... they are all going to be wrong in the same way.
There are a few guys here who have bought them... hopefully they will chime in.
There are a few guys here who have bought them... hopefully they will chime in.
Bringing up an old thread I started over the summer. Ended up having to rebuild the motor with new pistons, rings, new high pressure fuel pump, and a new oil drive gear. Got the motor back together hoping it would crank right up and it won't turn over. I'm getting spark in all cylinders and can get it to fire when I maually put fuel in the cylinder with an eye dropper, but it won't fire on its own. Have been trying to diagnose this on and off for some time. I have the service manual and have been running all the test procedures outlined. All three fuel pumps work, and I've got the right amount of fuel pressure. There is pressurized fuel in the rail, but it won't make it past the injectors. I cleaned and bench tested the injectors and they all click when I put power to them, but again the fuel is not getting past them. Anyone have any suggestions for me to try?
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
OK... this may be an EXTRA basic question... but is the battery in VERY good condition, and a full charge? I've found that with the early 240 EFI, if the battery voltage sags while it's cranking... it won't start. (but it will still crank)
When you checked for fuel pressure on the high pressure side... how exactly did you check it, and what was the pressure.
You may need to get a meter in on the injector harness, and see if there is any voltage going to the injectors, while cranking.
When you checked for fuel pressure on the high pressure side... how exactly did you check it, and what was the pressure.
You may need to get a meter in on the injector harness, and see if there is any voltage going to the injectors, while cranking.
Trust me, no question can be basic enough. I'm thinking whatever is going on is a simple fix. It's just finding out what it is. I appreciate any input, as basic as it might be. The battery is actually brand new with a full charge. I got rid of the old battery when I got the boat this summer. Is it possible the cranking amps are not enough? I bought a battery with 690 mca.
I checked the fuel pressure with the guage attached to the pressure valve fitting thing.(Not sure what its called) I can't remember the exact reading but it was somewhere in the mid 40s. I replaced the high pressure pump while I was doing the rebuild. The motor had sat for a while and the pump was gunked up with old fuel. I decided to replace it rather than try to clean it. Like I said before, the fuel pressure seems to be having no problem getting the fuel to the injectors, but it stops there.
I didn't make it to testing the injector harness yet. That is the 4 prong plug right? 3 prongs drive the injectors and the 4th is a ground? That will require two people to test and I've been working alone so far. I'll have to lure my friends over with some cold ones.
If I'm not getting power to that, how do I procede. Is power supplied from the big ecu box? or could it possibly be a sensor or relay or something?Thanks again for all your input!! I appreciate it!!
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Battery: OK. The reason I asked, is because I get people here all the time that think, just because they put a charger on a 20 year old battery... that it should work.
Fuel Pressure: OK. Here again... I asked because I have had people say... "I took the screw out of the tank, and there was fuel in it... and I can hear the pump run."
Injector power: Yes... it's the round 4 pin. I can't remember if the ECU feeds the injectors power... or if it controls the ground. (I'm thinking they get power via a fuse, and the ECU grounds them) But... I'm at my shop right now... and tied up. I'll check tonight when I get free.
On that thought... did you check the fuses on the engine? There is a covered, snap lid fuse block.
You should be able to do it by yourself. Just turn the key on... and jump the solenoid to crank it. (But it's safer with some one on the key)
Fuel Pressure: OK. Here again... I asked because I have had people say... "I took the screw out of the tank, and there was fuel in it... and I can hear the pump run."
Injector power: Yes... it's the round 4 pin. I can't remember if the ECU feeds the injectors power... or if it controls the ground. (I'm thinking they get power via a fuse, and the ECU grounds them) But... I'm at my shop right now... and tied up. I'll check tonight when I get free.
On that thought... did you check the fuses on the engine? There is a covered, snap lid fuse block.
You should be able to do it by yourself. Just turn the key on... and jump the solenoid to crank it. (But it's safer with some one on the key)
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Lift pump: As I thought... yes... it's only supposed to run while craning the engine. It gets triggered from the hot side of the starter solenoid.
SO... if its randomly running... I'd say that the relay has gone bad. (It's a standard 20a bosch)
Fuel injectors: Yes... the ECU controls the ground. So... the red wire should always have power. (Check that) Then you will want to figure out if the ECU is firing the injectors. You will have to read the book, and see what the real test is on that. I think if you put your meter on any of the other colors... you will see voltage. When it fires the injector... it will go to zero. The problem is... at cranking speed... that could be faster than a regular volt meter can detect. This is where an O-scope will come in handy. (you can watch the signal)
SO... if its randomly running... I'd say that the relay has gone bad. (It's a standard 20a bosch)
Fuel injectors: Yes... the ECU controls the ground. So... the red wire should always have power. (Check that) Then you will want to figure out if the ECU is firing the injectors. You will have to read the book, and see what the real test is on that. I think if you put your meter on any of the other colors... you will see voltage. When it fires the injector... it will go to zero. The problem is... at cranking speed... that could be faster than a regular volt meter can detect. This is where an O-scope will come in handy. (you can watch the signal)
Now that I think of it, I think the lift pump comes on when the key is turned to the run position or start position and makes a fast clicking sound for about 10-15 seconds if you leave it on the run position. If you turn the key to try and start again, it cycles for another 10-15.
I'll have to get in there and test at the harness to see if the ecu is properly controlling the injectors. You mentioned that it may be a blown fuse for the injection system, but according to my manual, it looks like the fuel pump and injectors are on the same fuse. I don't think that is the problem, but I'll check it just to be sure.
I really appreciate your help on this. Its seems like you have a way better knowledge of this motor than I do. I'm missing my old challenger with the rotax 800. That thing was 16 years old and still running like a champ!! Original motor too!
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Well.... it probably didn't have too many hours on it. I have an 96 XP 800 with the original engine. But... it only had 45 hours on it when I bought it. Chances are... there was a reason for the original melt down. (like running it out of oil) there are 2.5l Merc engines with +700 hrs on them... and there are others that have died with 40 hrs. Realistically... both should be good for 400 hrs of recreational use.
The lift pump has it's own fuse. AND... the fuse block I was thinking about (i think) is for the charging of the battery. I'll double check the schematic to see if there was any other fuses.
****EDIT*****
Yes... the fuse block with the 3 fuses is the charging and power up to the gauges.
The injectors are on a junction with the high pressure fuel pump, and also feeds the ECU. It looks like it should always be hot. I would start with pulling the injector plug, and just make sure you have power at the harness. (could have a bad connection, or a broken wire)
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Update: Sent the ECM to Simon Motorsports. They rebuilt the entire thing and replaced the MAP Sensor. The boat still won't start. Fuel pressure still good. Reading on injector harness coming off the manifold is 1.2 ohms. Cylinders are dry. Battery is new and fully charged. Could a bad sensor be causing this. I believe the ECM controls the injector fire based on the readings it gets from the sensors. Would a bad temp sensor, coolant sensor, air sensor or TPS be causing this. I would think the boat would still start even with a bad sensor, but just not accelerate or run well. I've been reading the service manual. It looks like mercury has a tool to test the TPS. Is there a way to test it with a standard multimeter? Any other suggestions?
I knew you would respond Dr. Honda!! You've been a big help since day one and I thank you for that!!:cheers:
I've known the injectors were my problem early on, but bench testing them proved that they work on their own. The problem was figuring out why the computer was not telling them to fire. So if I unplug all sensors, except the coolant sensor on the starboard, the boat should fire up(given that my problem is a sensor?) Are there any other sources for the problem? When I removed the injectors, I cleaned each of them with carb cleaner and compressed air, but is it possible that they are all clogged at the filter or elsewhere?
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
How EXACTLY did you clean the injectors? To do a proper cleaning... they need to come apart... and that's not a typical home mechanic job. Also... they need to be flow tested, with pressure on them. You can put power on it, and see if they open... but when there is fuel pressure on them... sometimes they don't.
Also... check your fuel pressure at the regulator. It's a returning system... and if there is fuel at the pressure valve... then we know, fuel is in the rail.
Also... check your fuel pressure at the regulator. It's a returning system... and if there is fuel at the pressure valve... then we know, fuel is in the rail.
I must not be your typical home mechanic.
I did take them apart, sprayed them and blew air to get them clean. They didn't really look bad though. And when I put power to them to test, the carb cleaner I sprayed into them misted out like fuel in the system would. It would probably be unlikely that all 6 of them would be clogged anyway, and all six cylinders are dry. Its more likely an electrical issue. I will remove the regulator though to see if there is fuel on the return. I know when I took it apart last fall, there was fuel in the rail so I don't think that would be the problem either. This thing is killing me man!! 
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Most guys aren't that adventurous. But, good job. And you are right... it's very unlikely all 6 would fail together.
You say there is fuel in the rail... but did you get a pressure on it? There is a schrader valve on the regulator. Make sure you have good pressure.
Then... I would double check the wiring. Since all the injectors run on a common... make sure it's connected.
And finally... give it a mouth full of starter fluid, and make sure it will fire/run.
You say there is fuel in the rail... but did you get a pressure on it? There is a schrader valve on the regulator. Make sure you have good pressure.
Then... I would double check the wiring. Since all the injectors run on a common... make sure it's connected.
And finally... give it a mouth full of starter fluid, and make sure it will fire/run.
Ok, so I'm back to square one..... A good friend of mine is a Sea Doo mechanic so I've got him helping me out now. He's not a Mercury mechanic though so it's like the blind leading the blind. :facepalm: We disconnected the TPS, air sensor, and temp sensor last night. No change in symptoms.
I didn't check the Schrader valve, but we removed the return fuel line attached to the regulator, and turned the key. Tons of pressurized fuel flowing. Would a bad regulator cause the injectors to not fire? Can I check that valve with a standard tire pressure gauge? Do I check it with the pump running or does it matter?
I've been through all the wire connections multiple times, checking grounds and everything. I think you said the high pressure pump, and the injectors are on the same circuit, and the pump works perfect, so the wiring should be good.
I didn't use starting fluid, but have used an ear dropper to inject fuel into each of the cylinders and it starts. Very briefly, but it does fire.
I wonder if my battery is not big enough. Its brand new, and above the recommended cranking amps, but maybe I didn't go big enough? Would low cranking amps cause this?
My friend took the entire manifold, injectors, and vapor separator assembly to his shop to have it cleaned in their ultrasonic parts cleaner. Once he's done, we'll bolt it back up just to eliminate that as a cause.
You said the battery was new with 690 cranking amps. That should be big enough. However, it's possible your starter may be going out or you have a wire issue causing high amp draw and voltage sag. I had an issue where the main power lead to an outboard was so corroded internally that the starter was only getting 9 volts from a new 900CA battery. You can check this at the starter solenoid with a volt meter while cranking.
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