Locked up?

[jerryjerry05]

2004 seadoo gtx 4 stroke supercharged bombardier(heck of a name)
Have a pair of them, they sat for 4-5 years and one doesn't want to turn over.
New batteries, one just clicks and the starter engages but only groans and when the solenoid
gets hot all it does is click.
I added a boost to the battery, starter and it makes no difference.

Is there a way to access the crank and try to help turn it over?
This my first attempt at Jet Ski repairs.
Been a marine tech since 1986 just haven't worked on these.
They belong to a friend and he's not mechanical.

 

[ski-d00]

Remove the intake hose to the sc and turn the LH nut on the impeller, takes 2 minutes if that. Make sure to turn CCW since it is a LH thread. This will turn the motor over slowly but valve spring pressure is high so it will jump to different spots so there needs to be a little bit of caution.

 

[jakempc3000]

Pull the plugs out of the engine / Do as mentioned above. If that does not work to free up the engine then only other real way without pulling the motor is to pull the pump and use a spline tool to spin the engine by hand. Most likely if the engine is rusted from setting even if you free it, there will be major issues.
It's also possible the pump is locked up and the engine will spin free once removed.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Remove the intake hose to the sc and turn the LH nut on the impeller, takes 2 minutes if that. Make sure to turn CCW since it is a LH thread. This will turn the motor over slowly but valve spring pressure is high so it will jump to different spots so there needs to be a little bit of caution.

ski-d00 I'm new and need the replys so I can understand: what's the SC?? Thanks
I don't want to screw up anything. Thanks for the reply.

 

[ski-d00]

supercharger=sc

Remove both seats, use 10mm socket in a drill/driver to remove 4 bolts from seat bridge, remove upper and lower parts of seat bridge including attached rear air vent hose. With a 5/16" nut driver loosen hose clamp on hose that goes into the center of the supercharger at rear, pull off hose and bend to the side. The sc impeller left handed 17mm nut will be in the center, turn this CCW to rotate engine. You don't need to remove the spark plugs since it turns the motor so slowly. If the motor is locked up which the only time this usually happens is when water sits in the motor for an extended period of time, the sc will actually slip which is what it is supposed to do. You can put a mark on the top of the driveshaft with a sharpie by pushing up flap at rear of motor and watch while you're turning the sc nut to see if it is rotating.
Some people turn the motor over by putting vice grips on the drive shaft under the rubber flap but this will really chew up the driveshaft. As jake explained above is a better way to turn using the driveshaft and you can use a snugly fitting 12 point socket instead of a spline tool so no special tools required.

Don't boost seadoos unless you're just using a 12v jumper pack and never jump start from a running vehicle which will quickly ruin the ECU. Seadoo electronics are way more sensitive than cars and can't handle the ac from an alternator.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Pull the plugs eal way without pulling the motor is toout of the engine / Do as mentioned above. If that does not work to free up the engine then only other r pull the pump and use a spline tool to spin the engine by hand. Most likely if the engine is rusted from setting even if you free it, there will be major issues.
It's also possible the pump is locked up and the engine will spin free once removed.

Thanks for the help, pulled the turbo hose and it turns but doesn't engage the crank.
You said : "free up the engine then only other way is pull the pump. what pump the turbo or the jet pump?
Please remember I'm new at this and until I know the names and wording I'm gonna ask questions.
THANKS!!!

 

[ski-d00]

no problem, jet pump

it's not a turbo, it's a supercharger. they do make turbos as an aftermarket for seadoos

 

[ski-d00]

remove pump, watch youtube, should take 10 minutes, check to see if impeller spins freely. if yes, put socket on end of driveshaft and try to rotate. if no, there's your problem a locked up pump.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Thanks,
Now to find the video?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Thanks for the help, pulled the turbo hose and it turns but doesn't engage the crank.
You said : "free up the engine then only other way is pull the pump. what pump the turbo or the jet pump?
Please remember I'm new at this and until I know the names and wording I'm gonna ask questions.
THANKS!!!

Spline tool? Part#
Someone suggested a 12point socket that fits tight, any idea on the size?
THANKS!!

 

[mkov608]

Jerry, you need to do some reading. Service manual for your ski is a free download.

2004 SeaDoo GTI, GTI LE, GTI RFI, GTI LE RFI, XP DI, GTX 4-TEC,RXP 4-TEC Shop Manual - FREE PDF Download!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Have that downloaded already.
Reading? what do you think I've been doing??
If I can't find it in the service manual, I ask questions.
I ask questions so I don't screw something up.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Got the outer housing off, then tried to get the impeller housing loose, it only comes about 3/4 of an inch then pulls itself back in.
Looked in the service manual= nothing on that.
Saw a couple of u-tube videos and they gave me some ideas, for tomorrow.
Any ideas or am I not reading enough?

 

[skiasylum]

Your right there isn’t really a service manual procedure for what your doing, in your case it’s a combo of asking questions, watching you tube videos, and referencing the service manual when needed. Even with your marine tech background it’s a learning experience.
Hopefully you come across the you tube video of the the two guys trying to get the pump out of the back of there jet ski using a tow strap and a Jeep.

 

[jakempc3000]

Thanks for the help, pulled the turbo hose and it turns but doesn't engage the crank.
You said : "free up the engine then only other way is pull the pump. what pump the turbo or the jet pump?
Please remember I'm new at this and until I know the names and wording I'm gonna ask questions.
THANKS!!!

Only way to learn and I apologize, I have been doing this for 20+ years.
If the supercharger is spinning with no friction or not engaging the engine that's another issue. The supercharger works off of a friction clutch system so not engaging maybe its just slipping. It should slip after a few pounds of force but have resistance. If it just spins with your fingers or little effort then it is bad also and will not help freeing the engine.


The pump will slide out with some force by hand. Takes some wiggling sometimes - normal. Pull and wiggle a little if will come out.
Once the pump is out you will see the driveshaft Splines and will need to rig a tool "bad idea' or order a spline tool "25-30$ that will connect to the shaft. looks like a big nut.
With the spline tool you can put some force on the engine to see if it is free.
You do need to pull the plugs out of the engine it will relieve some compression pressure and more importanly if there are fluids" gas, oil, water" it will allow and exit.
While the pump is out, spin the impeller in the pump by hand. Should have very little resistance.
If the motor is still locked up the next step will be to go into the engine.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The plugs have been out, I think for a VERY LONG TIME!!
That's how the problem started.
The humidity in Fl. got to the cylinders.

THANKS!!!

Darn, I've got the tow strap but no Jeep
Anyone have the part# for the spline tool?

 

[jerryjerry05]

The prop is SIEZED on the shaft.
I have cramps in my fingers from trying to pull it free.
I got the intake grate off and finally have access to the driveshaft under the ski, nothing blocking.
Rain yesterday stopped all work, today I'll get under and try to turn the driveshaft and try to get the prop off the end.
I don't want to damage the shaft so I'm staying away from vise grips for now.
Now that I have access I think I can reach the spot that the shaft and pump are stuck and can use a brass drift to make it slide back.
The driveshaft is really corroded and once I get the prop off I'll know how far I need to go.
I'm really hoping it's a stuck prop, would make my life a lot easier

 

[skiasylum]

A slide hammer seems to be the weapon of choice but it needs some finesse.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Where would you hook the slide hammer?
I was under the ski and had fairly good access to the joint where the shaft and the prop are connected,
I was hammering with a brass drift then a steel one, made no difference IT JUST DOESN'T WANT TO RELEASE
I seen this before and the best way is an acetylene torch, but the space isn't big enough and I'd end up cooking the fiberglass.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Not only is it seized !!! But the driveshaft is seized on BOTH ends, the prop and engine coupler.

I've got it dismantled enough that I can get the hot wrench in to the engine coupler.

Hate to think I might have to cut the shaft.

 

[skiasylum]

Why don’t you buy one of those induction magnetic heaters and let us know how they work. They have an attachment that you can wrap around a closed end shaft.

 

[ski-d00]

You do know there is a c-clip under the collar at the carbon seal, correct? Is this a saltwater ski? This c-clip has to be removed to remove the driveshaft. Heating stuff up will cause more damage and unlikely to do much of anything.

Will the carbon seal rotate on the driveshaft and push back to reveal the c-clip?

I've never seen the shaft locked up in the motor since it sits in an oil bath. The carbon seal collar has to slide forward on the driveshaft while it is removed. The oil seal bearing on the motor attached to the rubber boot can be tapped forward while someone is pulling on the driveshaft to free it up. The tool is not required that you see in the manual. The saltwater carbon seal collars can be a pain the remove if they rust on to the driveshaft. On occasion, you have to cut the collar off to remove the driveshaft on saltwater machines when they are really bad.

You are better off removing the driveshaft with the pump if the pump won't come off. Posting pics of the driveshaft and carbon seal will help us determine your best next steps.

 

[BGS]

The plugs have been out, I think for a VERY LONG TIME!!
That's how the problem started.
The humidity in Fl. got to the cylinders."

Might some fogging penetrating oil in cylinders help ?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Why don’t you buy one of those induction magnetic heaters and let us know how they work. They have an attachment that you can wrap around a closed end shaft.

Send me a link?? I looked for "induction magnetic heaters" and didn't see anything that would help.

The ends were both bathed in salt water probably since new 2004.
Motor doesn't have that much run time.

I'll try to get the pics loaded asap.

The first thing I did when I saw the plugs were out was dump in penetrating oil, WD and PB and couple of other lubes.
I have a snake cam I'll charge up and get internal pics along with the shaft pics.

""You do know there is a c-clip under the collar at the carbon seal, correct? Is this a saltwater ski? This c-clip has to be removed to remove the driveshaft. Heating stuff up will cause more damage and unlikely to do much of anything.

Will the carbon seal rotate on the driveshaft and push back to reveal the c-clip?""

I've never seen the shaft locked up in the motor since it sits in an oil bath. The carbon seal collar has to slide forward on the driveshaft while it is removed. The oil seal bearing on the motor attached to the rubber boot can be tapped forward while someone is pulling on the driveshaft to free it up. The tool is not required that you see in the manual. The saltwater carbon seal collars can be a pain the remove if they rust on to the driveshaft. On occasion, you have to cut the collar off to remove the driveshaft on saltwater machines when they are really bad.

You are better off removing the driveshaft with the pump if the pump won't come off. Posting pics of the driveshaft and carbon seal will help us determine your best next steps.

The collar is locked in place too.

 

[skiasylum]

Send me a link?? I looked for "induction magnetic heaters" and didn't see anything that would help.

The ends were both bathed in salt water probably since new 2004.
Motor doesn't have that much run time.

I'll try to get the pics loaded asap.

The first thing I did when I saw the plugs were out was dump in penetrating oil, WD and PB and couple of other lubes.
I have a snake cam I'll charge up and get internal pics along with the shaft pics.

The collar is locked in place too.

Snap-on Store

Car mechanics use them when they can’t use a torch to heat up frozen bolts. There are cheaper ones on Amazon. There is a flexible coil attachment as mentioned earlier. Although there might be to much mass to heat up a driveshaft end properly?