Forgot to replace cap on oil tank and now I have water in engine!

[asrogers71]

I did a stupid thing while on vacation. Last week, I went to put oil in tank of my 97 GSI but (ahem!) forgot to replace the cap. Did not catch this until about 2 hours later after I had been riding with no symptoms of anything gone wrong. I put the cap back on and resumed riding because she was still running good until...

A short time after that discovery was when the symptoms began. First it was the power that died. When I would get it started again, it would backfire. So I limped it back to the dock. Thinking some trash may have stopped up my carb, I took it apart for an inspection. Everything was wet but other than that I dried it out put it back on. Still it would backfire. Took the oil tank out drained it and dried the oil lines with compressed air. No luck. Next came the removal of the rotary valve housing to check for down water in the crankcase. I reached down as far as could get my finger into both ports to check for water. I did find moisture but not any real water to speak of. Even took a shop vac to try and suck out any water that might be in there. I got nothing. Still I cant get it to run more than a few seconds but then with backfiring. Eventually I found out the cause for that. I found that when I removed the pulse line from the carb and crank the engine water DOES come out of the pulse line. Connect it to the carb and it is so much that it is being fed back into carb itself. Engine runs fine as long as I dont leave pulse connected (at least until it burns the gas in the lines)
What have I got to do to fix this???

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Water doesn't mix well with fuel or oil, where's the the source of water, not in oil tank? No water in fuel tank? The diaphragm in the fuel pump should stop water from entering the carburetors and fuel lines, but there should be no water in the crankcase unless the engine has an internal leak. Of course running an engine that's having fuel or oil supply problems can cause internal damage, probably time for a compression test to determine if any cylinder/piston damage was done.

If fuel and oil tanks are water free and you're getting water in your engine from an unknown source, it could be a leaky head gasket or something like that, I'm not too familiar with details of that particular engine myself.

 

[Dr Honda]

Oil floats on water. SO... when the water got into the tank... it went straight to the pump, and RV gears. Drain the system, and check the compression. There is a high probability that you roasted the top-end.

 

[asrogers71]

Gas checked out ok. There seemed to be no water in filter. Tank had fresh fuel. Havent done a compression test yet and there is no water in hull. I can crank it on the trailer for a few seconds with the pulse line off. It fires right up. The minute I put the pulse on the pump water droplets end up all over the throttle plate, choke, etc. and it literally gushes out from the carb. I know there should be nothing but a pulse of air coming out of the crankcase. But there is definitely water in there and its evidently enough coming out of the hose that when it passes through the pump it is somehow pushing past the diaphram and getting into the carb. I do not know how much water it is - enough that it wont run- but at least for the moment there does not seem to be internal engine damage. At least I hope not.

 

[AdamXP800]

When did this happen? If that water has sat for any amount of time that is not good. Rust will form. As Dr said oil floats on water, so if water got in that tank it went straight down

 

[asrogers71]

It's been a little over a week now.

 

[68ragtop]

If it was me, I would take the RV oil line that comes from the block, off the top of the tank, extend it & bring it out of the rear drain plug. Drain the entire oil tank through the RV cavity & pay attention to what comes out. Hopefully the rest of the oil in the tank will flush any water/oil mix in there. Fill the tank with new oil, bleed out the oil pump & make sure thats clean. Before you start it pour a small amount of injection oil through the carbs. Once you get it started, try to keep it running, but keep dropping a few drips of oil in the carbs. Like Tony said it might be too late, but if IT still has good compression, maybe you can save it?

I think your other battle is going to be getting all the moisture out of the case & crank bearings, & the only way your going to do that is running it for a long time. those bearings are not going to be happy for very long IMO.

Let hope for the best!

 

[68ragtop]

It's been a little over a week now.

O-Boy, If you still have water in the case, I am worried you may have some damage brewing now....

 

[AdamXP800]

Da** a week. I'll say a prayer for your doo

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"The minute I put the pulse on the pump water droplets end up all over the throttle plate, choke, etc. and it literally gushes out from the carb."

Contents of the crankcase can only move up through the pulse line and into the carb if the fuel pump diaphragm is ruptured, as far as I know. The diaphragm isolates the crankcase from the fuel in the pump unless it's ruptured, or assembled incorrectly.

 

[- BiRkS_]

Lets just be clear that the pulse line has nothing to do with the RV cavity. He has water in his crankase. This would be due to the engine ingesting water at some point. Basically pull the plugs out and crank in intervals until the water comes out. Then fog the crap out of the engine. And if its been sitting for some time like that, those crank bearings are probably going to scatter themselves very quickly. So its a crap shoot.

So in the end, I don't beleive riding with the cap off did much, other than make you realize you have another serious problem.

 

[AdamXP800]

Ok. But with oil injection and oil floating on water.. Would that cause no oil to be injected and possibly water injected. In turn burning the top end. So I wouldn't say the cap off is unrelated

 

[- BiRkS_]

You would see it clear as day in the injection lines if water was there. Pull the inline oil filter out and poor it into a container. You'll know right away if you ever had water in the oil. If water DID get in, yes it is possible to do damage, but you would need quite a bit to displace enough oil to actually damage the top end. (think of the surface area at the bottom of the tank)

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Right, water entered the crankcase somehow, most likely through the oiling system since the cap was off. Question is, was there any water found remaining in the oil tank? It's possible the water did enter the oil tank and if it did, then there's not much doubt the water went through the oiling system and thus, was delivered to the crankcase instead of oil.

 

[Strizzo]

What are the chances that the oil cap being left off just happens to coincide with a base gasket letting go? It would explain the water in the crankcase/pulse line. Once you get the water cleared out on land I bet it comes back when you put in the water.

 

[Dr Honda]

......

So in the end, I don't beleive riding with the cap off did much, other than make you realize you have another serious problem.

I just replaced 2 boat engines for this same issue. The water goes to the bottom, and:

1) rusts the RV innards, and kills the seals, and shaft bearings.

2) It gets into the injection pump, and starves the engine of injector oil.



While I agree that there really isn't an issue with a watery/fuel/oil mix coming out of the pulse hose... I don't agree with the above. If it was run, with water getting into the oil tank... the engine is done.

 

[68ragtop]

Its really sad when you think about it. Just starvation of oil for a length of time is bad enough, but then to add water into the already bad situation. Like pouring salt into an irritated cut.

And such a simple and easy mistake. feel bad for you

 

[- BiRkS_]

Like I said earlier Dr, you would need quite a bit of water to get into the oil tank in order to do any damage. Yes water sinks to the bottom, but it would still be diluted in the oil at the pump, and the pump would sort of act as a goose neck and keep most of the water down at the pump until the lines fill up with water, then it has no choice to pump water. For the most part, as long as the engine was running and it was getting a little bit of oil, the heat of the engine would instantly turn it into steam and out the exhaust. As the PO states, he took it apart and found very little water in the RV cavity, just in the crank case. That's why I say its more along the lines of a base gasket issue. That being said, if water's been in there for over a week, damage is being done, unless he got most of it out while experimenting on the trailer.

...If he submarine'd the ski, I could see there being a problem, because that's alot of water, but just casual riding, there wouldn't be that much spray making its way near the oil fill. If only Bombardier put "water in fuel/water in oil sensors" That would have made so much sense, and could have saved many engines.

 

[Strizzo]

Like I said earlier Dr, you would need quite a bit of water to get into the oil tank in order to do any damage. Yes water sinks to the bottom, but it would still be diluted in the oil at the pump, and the pump would sort of act as a goose neck and keep most of the water down at the pump until the lines fill up with water, then it has no choice to pump water. For the most part, as long as the engine was running and it was getting a little bit of oil, the heat of the engine would instantly turn it into steam and out the exhaust. As the PO states, he took it apart and found very little water in the RV cavity, just in the crank case. That's why I say its more along the lines of a base gasket issue. That being said, if water's been in there for over a week, damage is being done, unless he got most of it out while experimenting on the trailer.

...If he submarine'd the ski, I could see there being a problem, because that's alot of water, but just casual riding, there wouldn't be that much spray making its way near the oil fill. If only Bombardier put "water in fuel/water in oil sensors" That would have made so much sense, and could have saved many engines.

not as much as you might think, the tank is designed so that everything flows downhill to the grommet or pickup, the oil is hydrophobic so the water will bead in small droplets until it finds another droplet and they'll combine, probably down in the lowest part of the hose, which would be probably just before the oil pump. then all it takes is a combined droplet enough to span the ID of the oil supply hose, then it is forced through the pump. so really the amount of oil required to get water to the oil pump is about one big fat raindrop.

also, the RV cavity is even worse, because there is no way out for the water once it hits the hose. its going to drain straight into the rv cavity and go to work. this sounds like a prime candidate for a sbt engine swap, there will be nearly nothing salvageable left for a rebuild.

 

[asrogers71]

Hello everyone!

I know its been awhile since Ive been on here so here is an update. So I pulled the engine carbs and exhaust. Took a shop vac to the intake ports. While in there I did notice that everything looked wet but try as I might I could not eem to pull one freaking drop of water out of the crankcase. So I ordered new gaskets rebuilt the carb and put it all back together. Fired it up. It cranks just fine. Compression is 120 on back and almost that on the front. So far so good. Only I still seem to have a little bit of moisture still coming from the vent. IDK at this point Im going to go see if I can ride it a little to see if it clears up or gets worse. From what I have read on all the replies the best case scenario is replacing the engine so I figure what have I got to lose. Thanks for all of your posts.