what the compression test did not tell me

[custompartsguy]

Everything seemed fine on the ole' 2000 gtx 951 when I first took it out, but did not show any of the problems I am about to show to you......nor did it gives any indication of these problems, the only reason I found them is because I simply decided to tear down the ski and check everything and the rest is history the pictures will show the story......you will see that the one piston skirt is not to bad just some light up and down gouging, but the other tells a different story with major up-down gouging going on and yet this motor showed 148psi both cylinders with it this way. You will see that the head has major saltwater damage and would have soon leaked water into the cylinders and that the starter front drive gear cover the bolts that are removed and just sitting there?......yes I did not do that, that is exactly they way it was when I pulled the front cover, both bolts where already loose and all the way out exactly as in the picture.......these pictures show you that you never know what you are buying untill you tear it down, long story short if the ski does not look clean and well taken care of even waxed then they prob didnt do any maintance to it either nor did they take care of it and these pictures will enlighten you..........

on top of all this the choke butterfly rod in the picture is bent along with the butterfly as they tightend up the nut way to tight and now the choke system was no longer any good. The motor mounts..trash....needs new wear ring and impeller has nicks in it....yet ski hooked up very well with no indication to such.....just a lot of problems......look the ski over very well, but these pictures show what can be found sometimes even if the ski is running perfectly...or so it seems.

 

[custompartsguy]

loss of lubrication?

 

[ski-d00]

many times piston scoring on the 951 is actually from water ingestion, see it tons in xpls, the piston shrinks slightly giving too much clearance. you can usually hear this excess clearance when it's running, it sounds like a ticking noise, kind of like a lifter noise in a car, sometimes they are very slight, sometimes very loud.
what's interesting though is how long they can last like that, I winterize many seadoos and when I hear this tick I, of course, tell the customer and many times since they think it's running fine and may be an older boat, they don't want to fix it, and I'll get it back the following year and the following year and it sounds the same way, seen them last for years like this, but have also seen them get worse and self destruct.

your crank should not be rusty unless it sat and hasn't run for awhile, kind of like car brake discs will rust after it rains in just a few hours.

 

[custompartsguy]

I thought that the rust was odd, didnt think it should be there, what about bad bearings would they have caused that due do excessive rocking?

This thing has deep grooves in the side of that piston that has the black mark on the skirt, the other is not that bad.

 

[custompartsguy]

I am really thinking of taking this person to court that I got this ski from, there was no as-is on the receipt and I traded them a 2002 honda rubicon atv worth around 3200-3400 with new ramps and gear as well, to me this ski in this condition would have only been worth around $1000 or so.

Will that light rust on the crank hurt it? Its just funny because I had this ski out for a test ride 63 mph on the dream-o-meter and no noises and ran really good. They had told me that they eliminated the oil pump and ran premix as a safty and put a block off on it, hell when I pulled it apart only thing down was the intake hoses removed, the pump and drive shaft where still on it pumping oil into my hull.

 

[ski-d00]

I wouldn't take them to court, it won't be worth your time and you won't win. All used vehicles are understood that they are in as-is condition with no guarantee or warranty expressed or implied. I'd chalk it up as a learning lesson but I don't think you did too badly, it's worth much more than $1000, I'd say closer to $2500 depending on condition.
It's a good idea to clean the rust off the lobes but what matters is if there is rust in the bearings and keep everything coated in oil.

 

[custompartsguy]

I am going to swing this motor down to action powersports here in nokomis and see what they think about it, my only problem with this ski is it now seems I am going to have to sink around $1000 or so into it to fix all the problems, I usually do really good with knowing a piece of junk/ton of problems before I buy something but this was my first ski and who would have known till a tear down........at least money grows on trees and maybe can have this done in time for winter....lol

 

[custompartsguy]

ok, the low down.....needs both pistons and a cylinder honing. Not to bad I thought for sure I would have to bore it, but still cost twice as much as a automobile motor at the machine shop.....for all I care right now this stupid ski can just sit here I do not have time for this crap.....I might just part the stupid thing out and I can not and will not put $1000 into something that should not have had problems when I bought it.....and oh by the way they did also comfirm water ingestion.

 

[slowboatn]

Keep us posted on what you find out and all. I may do this next year. What are you gonna do about the head? Is that too severe to use again? Or can it be repaired?

 

[kustomkarl]

$1000.00??? What, Hone the cylinders, replace the top end and slap it together... Other than the carbs, you should be fine. You could buy a cylinder hone cheaper then what the dealer wants to do the work. You shouldn't spend more than a couple hundred $$.

Karl

 

[custompartsguy]

too funny you asked about the head, the guy at the shop said to fill the holes with JB weld and sand them smooth....this is coming from a powersports dealer......I do not use JB weld to fix metal nor do I recommend anyone to use it for that purpose it is a bandaid not a fix....to fix the head I would need to either have it welded and shaved or replace it. Oh yeah.....he asked what am I wanting to do with my ski.....I told him I want one of the faster gtx's/3 seaters on the water he said "oh ok....how fast?" I said I would like to at least get to 68-70mph he told me " it will never happen" I said wtf it is a motor why not? he said " I would have to do everything I mentioned to him and also put an aftermarket pump and dual pipes on it" I said what aftermarket pump because I have looked all over trying to find one for my gtx and with no luck, he said with everything I want to do plus the dual exhaust pipes, aftermarket pump and some $1400.00 nova carbs I would then be able to hit maybe 70mph.....wtf....we are talking alot of money here like way over $3000.00 for 10 mph? I wanted to tell him where he could put that if you know what I mean.......I just do not get it he told me the 787 motor in one of these is faster then mine? garbage.....I have seen the 951's on the water and in rough water the gtx with 951 will outrun an xp with 951.....you are telling me that a gtx 787 and a gtx 951 the gtx 787 is faster? how and why? But it will cost me over $3000 to make mine faster then the 787 and just barely faster? Why in the world would a 787 in my hull be faster then the 951?

I hear so many stories I am tired of hearing the same ole' song " your ski will never to 70mph" but then tell me for $3k it will and slap me in the face and say the 787 is faster?

I am thinking of loading up and going to a speed and performance shop with my motor and telling them what I want, I do not think it would cost that much to get there. I just do not get it, it seems to me I read somewhere that the new 3 seater like 1200's or something with a supercharger still do not go really any faster then my ski? What kind of crap is this......if thats the case then why buy new to go faster?

 

[custompartsguy]

no no Karl I have not explained everything in a lump some, I need:

new pto boot, starter, head replaced or fixed, pistons, hone job, confirmed accel pump diapham only comes in the almost $300 kit, throttle rod bushings, 3 motor mounts, wear ring, impeller refinished or replaced, misc broken bolts,almost full gasket set, crank has surface rust on it, set of piston rings,exhaust cleaned and re-powdercoated, manifold cleaned,cylinder cleaned back, rave valve bellow kits,all the water passages have crustation growth in them, motor/pump alignment tool, I am sure there is more I am missing

 

[custompartsguy]

and possibly the rave valve soloniod as well as it has oil in it from the rave valve leaking

 

[kustomkarl]

Oh...never mind...

no no Karl I have not explained everything in a lump some, I need:

new pto boot, starter, head replaced or fixed, pistons, hone job, confirmed accel pump diapham only comes in the almost $300 kit, throttle rod bushings, 3 motor mounts, wear ring, impeller refinished or replaced, misc broken bolts,almost full gasket set, crank has surface rust on it, set of piston rings,exhaust cleaned and re-powdercoated, manifold cleaned,cylinder cleaned back, rave valve bellow kits,all the water passages have crustation growth in them, motor/pump alignment tool, I am sure there is more I am missing

Ok ...I hear e-bay calling for a big part sell out... any takers...but it looks pretty as a planter...I forgot about the other things that were wrong.

Part it out...

 

[custompartsguy]

It just sucks to part it because at this point I have about $3200-3400 into it from my trade to them.......I would rather fix it but am worried about the cost that will rack up.....I found a company called full bore on ebay $350 for a full top end kit on my motor with every part needed and also includes the hone/bore work that needs done to it. But at this point its seems like a nickle and dime and with all the parts listed over $1000 in work, I did find a guy with a brand new starter local in the box for $50. But thats neither here nor there thats a minor part at the moment. What would be a blessing is to find someone parting out a gtx like mine, well for that matter parting out a 951 motor for cheap....:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

[slowboatn]

Sounds like that guy doesn't know quite what he is talking about. I don't know much about these but I know mechanics and electronics. I would think that what you want to do would deffinitly add more that 10 mph to it. I'm happy going 60 on mine. I was thinking about changing the impellar but I don't really know.

 

[kustomkarl]

Look around for a deal. There are a ton of your model seadoo's around. You never know.

Karl

 

[custompartsguy]

Sounds like that guy doesn't know quite what he is talking about. I don't know much about these but I know mechanics and electronics. I would think that what you want to do would deffinitly add more that 10 mph to it. I'm happy going 60 on mine. I was thinking about changing the impellar but I don't really know.

I am happy doing just over 60 but I want to be faster then other 3 seaters....whats funny is the guy told me he has been building and racing them for 15 years

 

[slowboatn]

I'm content. I just like to rid mine. I hope after I get the carbs done and the Rave valves repaired, it will run like it is supposed to. If people would check out my thread on it.

 

[ski-d00]

why would you want that gtx to go 70? it's possible to make it gps at 70 but it will take major bucks, the mechanic is right in this case. Call Glen at PPG and he'll tell you exactly what you need to go 70 in an old gtx 951, it's a lot and not worth it at all but he knows his stuff. Remember, it isn't just horsepower either, that pump is only so efficient and will require major work as well. It basically would be money down the drain, you'd be better off buying an RXP to go 68-70.

If I were you, I'd fix it properly but don't go overboard, no need to re-powdercoat or anything like that. All you need to do is a top end job, tig weld up the head, and clean everything up, it will run a long time and be just fine, you'll have about $300 in it total.
I wouldn't just hone your cylinders, boring them costs $35/hole and they will be right, not good enough.

 

[custompartsguy]

yeah, but with me I like big things to go fast, isnt the rxp a 2 seater? and way out of the price I would be willing to pay for one, 70 was just a number out of my rear, I just want it to be one of the faster 3 seaters around, correct me if I am wrong but isnt the seadoo lrv a 5 seater and same motor as mine and it is just as fast as mine? 3 seater vs 5 seater same engine same speed? whats that about?

 

[93mustang97sea]

No offense the guys right.. I work on speed boats NOT crazy speed boats but normal peoples speed boats non sponsored ones.. The hull of a boat has a point of where it will not take any more speed where its at its limits where it cant go any faster.... I got a friend with a 16 ft superboat with a merc 2.4 200 making over 200 hp maybe around 230 with 7seven peddle reeds and big boar carbs.. last year well in january we were running 79-80 mph with it being a stock 2.4 now its running 80-82.. he put a lot of money into it for just 2 more mph...... got a friend with a 21 sleekcraft with a stock 2.4 with a 26 pitch prop running 80mph.. im trying to find a 30 pitch once i do i can get that boat over 100 easy.. on stock motor.. its the hull that's allowing me to do that.. the hulls limiting you to what you can do you have to realize that.. I dont know jetskis but I know the and have the jest of boats and I must consider the fact there pretty much the same in aspect ratio.

 

[ski-d00]

LRV is a 4 seater and is a tank, much slower than your gtx, impeller has a lot do with top speed. are you looking just for top end or accel also? the rxp is a 2 seater but you will be spending more overall(boat plus parts)to get your gtx to 70 than you can for a used rxp($5-$6k). if you like big, get an rxt, I love mine and I beat my rxp all the time with my 50lb lighter son on it in the chop, smooth water not so much though.
if you insist on making your gtx faster than stock, I'd do a level one which is still very reliable and will wake it up quite a bit. call riva or PPG or one of the local known seadoo race shops, they'll tell you exactly how fast you'll go and for how much.
in the world of PWC speed, every 1-2 mph is a major increase and will cost accordingly.

 

[custompartsguy]

No offense the guys right.. I work on speed boats NOT crazy speed boats but normal peoples speed boats non sponsored ones.. The hull of a boat has a point of where it will not take any more speed where its at its limits where it cant go any faster.... I got a friend with a 16 ft superboat with a merc 2.4 200 making over 200 hp maybe around 230 with 7seven peddle reeds and big boar carbs.. last year well in january we were running 79-80 mph with it being a stock 2.4 now its running 80-82.. he put a lot of money into it for just 2 more mph...... got a friend with a 21 sleekcraft with a stock 2.4 with a 26 pitch prop running 80mph.. im trying to find a 30 pitch once i do i can get that boat over 100 easy.. on stock motor.. its the hull that's allowing me to do that.. the hulls limiting you to what you can do you have to realize that.. I dont know jetskis but I know the and have the jest of boats and I must consider the fact there pretty much the same in aspect ratio.

this is not true...I work on alot of boats and have seen a ton of hulls, hull design can make a boat go faster, but in a true boating world with a normal I/O system I can build a nasty motor make you go as fast as you want, matter of fact I was doing exactly what I had already seen in another offshore boat with my Baja, I was going to build my big block to around 550-600 hp stock was 330hp with everything I was doing by the time it was done would have hit over 80mph and stock was only 60mph. There is a limit to hull design where you take a non speed hull and give it speed it will be like a fast car with bald radials on it and will get real squarilly on the water its scarry. Also there is a limit to how fast a hull will go but 10 mph is not a huge gain from stock in a speed boat world. Might be on pwc's but not as you say boats in general. I think you may have lost track of the conversation. And the boats you discribed where 2 strokes? not to a boater what a tru boat is considered to have in them, so you are compairing apples to oranges. Understand that proper hull design helps aid in a faster hull as well where you will not have to build as fast of a motor, do not get me wrong there is a limit but not exactly the way that you explained it.

 

[custompartsguy]

LRV is a 4 seater and is a tank, much slower than your gtx, impeller has a lot do with top speed. are you looking just for top end or accel also? the rxp is a 2 seater but you will be spending more overall(boat plus parts)to get your gtx to 70 than you can for a used rxp($5-$6k). if you like big, get an rxt, I love mine and I beat my rxp all the time with my 50lb lighter son on it in the chop, smooth water not so much though.
if you insist on making your gtx faster than stock, I'd do a level one which is still very reliable and will wake it up quite a bit. call riva or PPG or one of the local known seadoo race shops, they'll tell you exactly how fast you'll go and for how much.
in the world of PWC speed, every 1-2 mph is a major increase and will cost accordingly.

I see your point and had bad info on the lrv sorry, but like I said I do not exactly have to hit 70 but I want a faster then the average Joe 3 seater, I like to have them pull up try to race you and you just pull away from them.