water in all three cylinders from cooling water intake?

[grayt1964]

Have two 2006 GTI Se's PWC jet ski's, 135 hp 4 strokes with only 70 hrs, very clean and new like. Just got them out of garage from overwinter to start. One started , runs fine. THE other would not start and finally pulled spark plugs to check and have water on plugs. Spun over engine with all sparkplugs removed and all had fresh water spew from cylinders, (from hooking up water hose for cooling while on trailer). They were dry all winter so how does water get into all three cylinders on first season start up attempt???
I have rebuilt many small block chevys and don't know of a head gasket ever letting go on the whole bank??? I do not know marine engines in depth/ detail so is there something beside the head gasket it could be?? Is there another bottom end water seal ??? Please advise?

 

[Coastiejoe]

I replied in your meet and greet post. Please don't make multiple post of the same issue. It make it hard to follow things and fragments the replies. I will direct others to answer here, not your other post.

 

[1983]

Well, whatever caused it, the main goal now is to get all the water out of engine. And these guys will probably suggest changing oil a couple times until you have gotten all the water out of engine. You need to run engine at lake. Its much better for the ski than hooking it up on hose. You can get it up to operating temp and really load test the skis operation.

Ive seen lots of posts lately about engines with water in them due to messing with hose. Like joe said, you have to follow the procedure, engine on then hose on, then hose off then engine off.

Get that water out asap!

Rob

 

[ski-d00]

It sounds like you turned on the hose before the engine started. Lake water cools the exhaust and is then forced out the exhaust system. If the engine is not running while the hose is on, water will back flow into your cylinders. The water in your cylinders needs to be removed right away and if it isn't, it will ruin your motor. Pull the plugs and crank it over until no sign of water coming out, plugs back in, and try to start. You may have to repeat this sequence several times before it finally starts. Once it starts, then turn the hose on and let it run for 3-4 minutes. Check oil and make sure no water got in the oil. If it's okay, then, put it in the water, and ride it for at least 30 minutes. If it's milky, change it along with the filter. Repeat as needed.

 

[Coastiejoe]

If this water was in the engine all winter season long, I have to think there will be issues that will require the engine to be opened up.

This is why I asked in you other post the sequence you use when you winterized the ski.

If I am reading your post right, you didn't hook water up when you pulled them out of storage. Is there hat correct?


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[grayt1964]

Thanks for the replys and I think you set me straight already. Yesterday I did turn on the hose first and started the engines right away as I had done last year with no problems then. (I have been reading online shop manual last two hours) Apparantly, I took too long on starting the second ski and it got water into it since the engine wasn't running to force/keep water out ( is this correct/ possible??).

I did force all water out of cylinders yesterday PM with repeated cycles of open cylinder (spark plugs out) cranking and compressed air hose wand inserting, also left high velocity fan on compartment all night. I will siphon and change oil w filter.

So is it possible I took long to crank and should not have opened hose pipe for cooling till after it is cranked and running??? I just didn't think it ( the water) would run into the cylinders from the flushing pipe inlet? I was told to use that process/ procedure by the previous owner I purchased them from (He did not have any manuals or other advice except to keep ropes clear of impellers).

Under "Tornado Watch" this AM currently, will try cleaning and restarting this PM or tomorrow? Thanks for any advise/ assistance !!

 

[grayt1964]

So I just reread my post and asking for clarity/ confirmation on my ignorance,,,???? Always start and have Ski's running before turning on hose --- and always shut off hose before killing engines ???
I have to (use hose to hook up and) test run before we head out on one hour drive to lake. Any ideas suggestions appreciated. THANKS !

 

[go_panthers]

Correct. Never have water flowing into the flushing outlet without the engine running. Period. Never. Ever. Always crank the engine first. You can run the engine for short periods (< 30 seconds is my rule) without water. I always crank the engines for a few seconds before heading to the lake, too, but without water.

 

[XP 787]

If you pulled plugs and cranked to clear the water you should be fine. Atleast it still cranks.

 

[Coastiejoe]

To make it simple for you.

ENGINE on, water on, water off, engine off.

Any other way what happens is, you fill the exhaust with water and it does into the engine through the valves once you crank the motor.


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[grayt1964]

To make it simple for you.

ENGINE on, water on, water off, engine off.

Any other way what happens is, you fill the exhaust with water and it does into the engine through the valves once you crank the motor.


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THANKS Joe and others, for the clarification, I wish I'd been told that by the previous owner but he actually told me to always connect the hose , open and then crank, which makes sense for a land engine guy like me. I also have a 1976 Evinrude 115 OB boat which we always hook up the foot hose connector first before starting as we were told otherwise we could ruin the water pump impeller if it were ever started dry. So this is a first learning experience for me on this issue. THANKS TO ALL>

 

[clmboating]

There's really no point in using the flush input to cool the motor. Just start it without using water for (10-15) seconds, just long enough so you know it runs good.

(If it starts then you have no more water in it, if it doesn't then you have more cleaning out to do)

 

[Coastiejoe]

The hose is ONLY used to flush the system. The water actually runs backwards. This is to FLUSH anything out of the cooling system. Even then, you run the engine for less than a minute so you don't damage the carbon seal.


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[grayt1964]

Quick follow up question on oil brand/ type? My dealer has the BRP XPS 4 synthetic blend @ $50 a gallon!!!-Yikes. IS this the only oil I should consider using or is there another regular brand at auto dealers that will do the same job ? I have looked on an old gallon jug to get SFI rating but there is none on this factory BRP gallon jug??? Any suggestions ?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I agree, running the motor for a minute isn't enough to overheat the seawater cooled exhaust. That's about as long as I'd run mine out of water anyway so I don't bother with a hose.

But I'm never more than a few feet from the lake, LOL, so perhaps I'm spoiled but trailer running really is almost pointless aside from confirming the engine can run before hauling it to the lake, the quick test running good/bad decision takes less than a minute.

For non puffer engines lots of guys use their favorite 4 stroke oil as long as the weight is correct, I'm not sure if the 4-tec has flat tappets though, maybe roller cam?

 

[rcguy]

Been using Castrol 4T Motorcycle oil, SAE 10W-40 on my 215 hp supercharger Rotax. Auto Zone had this oil on sale for $2.99 per quart, so I bought a case. ($6.99 regular price) The owner/mechanic of Jet Trendz of New Port Richey, FL highly recommends this oil for all high reeving engines. Brett hasn't been wrong and I follow his advice like a religion. $12.00 bucks vs $50.00, not a difficult decision to make.

Reply to post #14 by grayt964

 

[grayt1964]

Got synthetic Mobil 1, 0-40wt. for $4.00 qt. at AutoZone on sale.
Still haven't gotten engine to crank/run on own yet. Still getting water out/cylinders cleaned out. I am having trouble with battery or start switch causing a clicking and not always spinning over with sparkplugs in. (Don't care much for these start /stop switches). With them out it spins good but not so much plugs in. Charged battery over night and going to do a load test on battery today and keep at it till that puppy runs and does it right !!!
One article I read said to warm up engine and even run at 4000 RPM before siphoning out oil/ change ? I don't trust running at 4000 RPM on trailer at all? Am I right to not spin it 4000RPM out of water??

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Lower speed is fine, you won't really be able to properly bring it up to operating temperature on the trailer anyway, you're just getting the majority of water out.


In the case of badly contaminated oil: If they're really milky I just crank it over to circulate the fresh with spark plugs out after first sucking out and replacing the milkshake with fresh oil. Then I change it again before startup. ie:I don't actually run the engine on the first go-round if I sucked out milkshake.

Assuming you can you see water contamination in the oil, then it's completely water contaminated and typically needs to be flushed a few times using fresh oil and filter each time. I use lower cost single weight 30 or 40W fleet oil for the first couple changes while getting the water flushed out as viscosity isn't extremely important while running on trailer anyway.

Running on the trailer in the water is the proper way to warm the oil for the final oil change following the initial couple changes necessary to get the oil back to clear.

That's how I do it when I get a totally flooded ski that was running under water with five drunk guys riding atop, usually takes 3~4 oil changes to get the crankcase oil clear so I use the cheap(er) motor oil the first couple times with fresh filter each time.

 

[rcguy]

Quick follow up question on oil brand/ type? My dealer has the BRP XPS 4 synthetic blend @ $50 a gallon!!!-Yikes. IS this the only oil I should consider using or is there another regular brand at auto dealers that will do the same job ? I have looked on an old gallon jug to get SFI rating but there is none on this factory BRP gallon jug??? Any suggestions ?

Follow Sportster's advice...that's the way I would do it if I was in your position.

 

[grayt1964]

Thanks guys, I did finally get it to start and did a cheap oil change and will do several for the next few trips out. It sure is easy to siphon out but seems not to efficient nor complete a process. Oh well, cheaper oil for the next few changes and I found K&N filters for $11 at O'Reilly's. Then goes in the Mobil1 0-40 wt. for $20/gal., (SeaDoo oil is $50/gallon) Any ideas on cheaper filters? I wish I'd known the proper start up/check procedure before! At least I know now, I thought those others at the lake were doing it wrong, dumb me.....

One other thing is that one ski has a hard time getting the start /kill switch to kick in, or it is the solenoid is not getting enough amps to kick the starter? Upon tapping the start switch it will give a slight bump but not engage the starter to spin the motor and upon letting off of the switch it bumps again??? I find that curious as the other ski does not do that, it just hits and spins the engine over to start. Any ideas if it is the switch or the battery or bad connections?

 

[1983]

Battery needs to be out of ski on battery maintainer when not in use.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Start/stop buttons fail somewhat often. Test it with a DVOM at the solenoid for 12 volts and or for OHMs with the wires disconnected.


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[ski-d00]

When you press the start button, if you hear only a click but it doesn't turn over or start. You need a new solenoid. If after several pushes with just clicks, it will finally just decide to start on the next press. This is the solenoid which is common failure mode like this around 06-08. The newer all plastic black ones are much better than the brown ones with the metal plate.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Listen for the solenoid in the bilge to go clunk when you push the button, if it clunks but doesn't crank you need a new solenoid. If no solenoid clunk, the handlebar button might be the issue.

Funny me, I had a boat the other day I replaced the starter b/c I wasn't paying attention. The problem was the solenoid, LOL.

 

[grayt1964]

Thanks for the info/advice. I did keep batteries out of ski's and on trickle chargers over winter. That one ski-switch was acting up last year also, so it may be the solenoid or switch. Will do checks as advised THANKS ! Hoping to ride them this weekend - YAAAYYY!