Utopia 205 SE 430 HP...Do I pull the trigger?

[Nitro257]

I have the opportunity to get an 08 Utopia 205 SE with the 430 HP engine combination. Under 50 hours. Really comes with nothing except what was standard on the boat (i.e. bow/cockpit covers, snap in carpet, etc). I can get the boat delivered for under $17,000.

My concern is that I am not able to do sea trial or mechanical inspection. The purchase would be from a reputable business (not a marine business). The nearest SeaDoo dealer is approx. 30 miles away.

They insist that it was serviced and inspected by the SeaDoo dealer in January. Additionally, they have gone through it and the only item that needed replacing was the battery--which they accomplished.

Should I run away?

 

[Dr Honda]

Hard to say.

I've bought a bunch of things long distance. They have NEVER been as claimed... but they weren't bad either. The price is right... but for that much $$$$ it would be hard to not want to see it first.

If you are serious... can you jump on a plane, and go see it? Adding another $500~$800 to the price tag (For travel) would be well worth it.


How far is it? Can you just take your own vehicle and do a pick up? I bought my Islandia WAY up in MI. Round trip was over 1100 mi. TO me... if I had to walk away from it... it only cost me $300 in fuel, and a VERY long day. (18 hrs driving)

 

[Nitro257]

Thanks for the response. It is about 1,400 miles away. I have relatives in the area who were able to go over and do a visual inspection. Their feedback was that outside of a good cleaning the boat was in nice shape. They weren't able to hear the engines run, however. The person I have been dealing with on the sale of the boat insists that it is turn key--for whatever that is worth. They have sent all the photos I have requested...but nothing really compares to live and in living color.

I totally agree that the ideal is to test it on the water and have it hooked up to the BUDS system--at the minimum. I don't think anything sinister is going on, but since it is not their primary line of business, they are looking to move it on a quick cash sale (thus the asking price far below NADA)

 

[Dr Honda]

Why couldn't your relatives hear the engines? For $17k... if they guy is unwilling to at least start it... that would make me walk away.


I guess the other side of this is.....


I know you said it's not a boat shop or seadoo dealer.... what kind of shop is it? Does the shop have a good reputation? Since you are buying it remotely... is there any guarantee (in writing) that it's not going to be DOA, or have any other major issues?

Honestly... if the shop says it's in perfect mechanical/running order... then they should be ale to back it in writing.


And finally... I would want to know the time on the engines before dropping that kind of $$$ on any toy. Besides... 2008 was the last year of the ceramic SC washers. If they haven't been changed... there will be a big expense on the rebuilds. (something to keep in mind)



There are a lot of shops who buy CRAP cheap, and clean it up for a quick re-sale. AND... they aren't always very honest. (and they never know the real history) Heck... this could be a boat that was "Totaled" in the NJ hurricanes, and someone brought it back to life.

 

[Murph_13]

Delivered! For under 17K...that's a helluva deal! I'd look to have one of the nearby relatives do a water trial if possible and pounce on it if all checks out. You're getting it delivered for roughly 5-7K under NADA! Seems like a plane ride is well worth the potential savings...especially if you just have to fly out, inspect and water test, fly back and wait for delivery.

 

[Nitro257]

It is a car dealer (major brand). They claim that the original owner was the owner of the dealership. He sold it to the 2nd owner--an acquaintance of his, who traded it back into the dealership for a vehicle. They said the reason the 2nd owner got rid of the boat was that he didn't use it. (46 total hours on the boat is what they quoted me). They said that since they are not a boat dealer they would not have taken it in trade unless they had full confidence in the boat. There mechanics went through it (I guess as good as auto mechanic's can) and they ended up putting in a new battery. As a car dealer, they said they aren't set up for any type of water test. They are more than willing to allow a mechanical inspection but the nearest SeaDoo dealer is 30 miles away and does not do mobile service. I am sure my relatives can go back over and hear it start up and run. (When they went over originally my contact was out and they ended up working with a salesman)

 

[Dr Honda]

What state/area is the dealer in? It may be close to a trusted member, who can give it a proper once-over. You can PM me if you want to keep that quiet.

I understand about the "Not set-up to water test" thing. And honestly... unless you buy it from a boat or seadoo dealer who is very close to the water... they don't normally do water tests either.


I guess the real thing is, are they willing to back it at all... in some form... and in writing. Since I can assume it's coming from a different state... if there isn't any explicit protection... it will be VERY hard to make things right later.

 

[JoeB14]

FYI, I bought an 07 Utopia last year, less hours, for about $3k more...so I'd say that price is pretty good...if the boat is in good shape.

 

[RFoster130]

That is a great deal if it all checks out. I'm not afraid to buy my boats long distance. Both of mine came from pretty far, 900 miles on the 98 and my current 2004 was 1500 miles away. For the 98 i was able to drive to pick it up myself. The 2004, it would have cost me far more to drive down and back. So i flew down and checked it out and then paid to have it delivered. When I went to look at it in person, it was nothing like the ad I saw. I expected it to be in much better shape. It had a lot of cosmetic issues and minor problems with stuff being broke. Had i bought it without seeing it, i would have been pretty angry honestly. I still ended up buying it for the same price, because it was that good of a deal BUT I knew exactly what I was getting into and had the opportunity to walk away if i chose.

I also have a buddy who was looking to buy a boat long distance from a car dealer like you are, he was able to talk them into taking it to the lake and making a video of it running and testing everything. Very easy to do these days. Maybe see if your relative can go take it out and send you a video. I also like the idea of looking for a member who is local to it. Post up what area it is in...we have some great guys all over the country.

With all that being said, i would TRY to have it checked out by a dealer or someone you know at least take it out, but if that is absolutely not possible, I also wouldnt walk away. I hate to turn down a good deal. I would use it to my advantage and try to get it even cheaper. Now that summer is coming to an end, I doubt they want it sitting there all winter.

 

[Nitro257]

Thanks Joe. I feel good about the numbers...just focused on trying to do my due diligence on the boat with the seller's limitations. Tough one...

Thanks for the great feedback RFoster130. I am definitely going to try to find a member who might be able to take a look at it on my behalf. I'm with you....I hate to turn down a great deal. I usually feel confident in my negotiating skills. In this case I have really tried to play up the risk angle (in my behalf). I'm at the point numbers-wise where I have beat them up enough where they are going to call it off before I will...

 

[Nitro257]

UPDATE....I decided to pass--with good reason on the 2008 SeaDoo Utopia 205, 430 hp.

I was able to find a SeaDoo Technician in the general vicinity of the boat. He was AWESOME! He went down and did an inspection and hooked up the engines to the BUDS. We found a NUMBER of issues. After a lot of discussion with the Inspector, I submitted an adjusted lower offer. The seller didn't even have the courtesy to respond to the offer; nor, shockingly to me did they even call me to attempt to find out what the Inspection turned up.

Sadly, the boat has been re-listed on eBay with some erroneous information.

All I can say to any prospective buyer is to do ALL that you possibly can to have a pre-purchase inspection done prior to any boat purchase. I almost had convinced myself that the deal was so good that I was considering pulling the trigger (at the Seller's insistence that the Boat was in "excellent" condition). Luckily, my risk averse side won out and we did the inspection. It was the best money I have ever spent. I would have been stuck with a boat that needed a few thousand in mechanical service plus one with undisclosed cosmetic issues.

Thanks to everyone that responded and especially those who PM'd me and attempted to find a qualified Inspector for me. If anyone is looking for a great SeaDoo Inspector in the Sarasota/Venice FL area, I have someone for you.

 

[Dr Honda]

I found it on ebay.... but what exactly was wrong?

 

[Nitro257]

Would rather not get into specifics in a public forum.

Suffice it to say that the Inspection I had completed turned up mechanical issues and items the Inspector felt required immediate attention.

 

[Dr Honda]

Would rather not get into specifics in a public forum.

Suffice it to say that the Inspection I had completed turned up mechanical issues and items the Inspector felt required immediate attention.

Why?

If you aren't "Bashing" the seller... and you are posting the truth... then there my be a buy for it here. When I checked earlier today... the opening bid was only $9,950. For that price, I would be willing to do some work.


Here it is, for anyone else who would like to see it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008...ats&hash=item1c35b405d7&vxp=mtr#ht_2017wt_708

 

[Andym]

UPDATE....I decided to pass--with good reason on the 2008 SeaDoo Utopia 205, 430 hp.

I was able to find a SeaDoo Technician in the general vicinity of the boat. He was AWESOME! He went down and did an inspection and hooked up the engines to the BUDS. We found a NUMBER of issues. After a lot of discussion with the Inspector, I submitted an adjusted lower offer. The seller didn't even have the courtesy to respond to the offer; nor, shockingly to me did they even call me to attempt to find out what the Inspection turned up.

Sadly, the boat has been re-listed on eBay with some erroneous information.

All I can say to any prospective buyer is to do ALL that you possibly can to have a pre-purchase inspection done prior to any boat purchase. I almost had convinced myself that the deal was so good that I was considering pulling the trigger (at the Seller's insistence that the Boat was in "excellent" condition). Luckily, my risk averse side won out and we did the inspection. It was the best money I have ever spent. I would have been stuck with a boat that needed a few thousand in mechanical service plus one with undisclosed cosmetic issues.

Thanks to everyone that responded and especially those who PM'd me and attempted to find a qualified Inspector for me. If anyone is looking for a great SeaDoo Inspector in the Sarasota/Venice FL area, I have someone for you.

Thanks Joe. I feel good about the numbers...just focused on trying to do my due diligence on the boat with the seller's limitations. Tough one...

Thanks for the great feedback RFoster130. I am definitely going to try to find a member who might be able to take a look at it on my behalf. I'm with you....I hate to turn down a great deal. I usually feel confident in my negotiating skills. In this case I have really tried to play up the risk angle (in my behalf). I'm at the point numbers-wise where I have beat them up enough where they are going to call it off before I will...

Hi. I looked at same boat today at jeep place. Please could you tell me what was wrong. Was going to buy boat tomorrow.

 

[Nitro257]

Please PM me.

I am more than willing to help people out and my biggest advice on this boat and on any boat you might purchase is to get a survey done!!

I can certainly understand asking but, that being said, I'm not sure it is my responsibility and/or obligation to pay money to have a boat surveyed and then freely share the results with others on a forum. Am I wrong? Maybe I don't understand what my function is as a member of this forum?

 

[xintersecty]

I can certainly understand asking but, that being said, I'm not sure it is my responsibility and/or obligation to pay money to have a boat surveyed and then freely share the results with others on a forum.

Personally I think you are well within your right. You have said you have declined the offer and expressed enough concern to stay away from it on this public forum while not bashing the seller. After all a survey is not cheap and well worth the money.

 

[RFoster130]

I kinda feel the other way. Yeah you paid for it and yeah its your right to not say anything. But this forum is about a bunch of cool sea doo enthusiasts being cool and helping each other. Unlike other forums full of A-holes...I think of the other guys on here as family and wouldnt hesitate to help any of them out. If i was in close proximity to a ski or boat another member was interested in, I wouldnt hesitate to go look at it or help them in any way possible. I think its kind of selfish to have some good info on a shady seller and keep it to yourself...thats not how I would handle it....But its your position to do what ya want..thats what is good here..most people respect each others opinions...even when we disagree. :cheers:

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Please PM me.

I am more than willing to help people out and my biggest advice on this boat and on any boat you might purchase is to get a survey done!!

I can certainly understand asking but, that being said, I'm not sure it is my responsibility and/or obligation to pay money to have a boat surveyed and then freely share the results with others on a forum. Am I wrong? Maybe I don't understand what my function is as a member of this forum?

I don't know what an inspection costs these days, but if another member is looking at and you share that info maybe he would be willing to "chip in" to the inspection costs.

 

[Dr Honda]

I kinda feel the other way. Yeah you paid for it and yeah its your right to not say anything. But this forum is about a bunch of cool sea doo enthusiasts being cool and helping each other...............

I 100% agree.


I bent over backwards trying to find a local member to help you with the boat, and as a group, we gave you the info we had.

You really should post up with what you know. Don't bash the dealer... just give the facts.


The way I feel about it... if you aren't going to help others with the facts... then we probably shouldn't help you next time you ask. I hate to sound negative... but it's the truth.


If nothing else... PM the person who asked with the name/number of the tech who checked it out, and let him explain.

 

[chlarson23]

Nitro, you should just help the guy out. If he’s got to pay you for the info, then he should just pay the dealer to inspect again. This forum is about people helping people and that’s what makes it great.

 

[Nitro257]

Wow...a little surprised by some of the responses, especially Dr. Honda. To classify what I did as "not helping" is dramatically misrepresenting the situation. I put it out there very loudly that the boat was NOT what the Seller represented it to be. I didn't realize that I had to very specifically identify everything that the Inspector found. Did anyone read my post and not get the impression that I was warning my fellow sea doo enthusiasts to be very careful relative to the boat? I didn't realize that it was a requirement to publish the full inspection report. Now I have been properly admonished.

In the Florida section of the Forum I identified the Inspector and gave contact information and sang his praises.

Alright you guys win....if someone wants the details found in inspection report please PM me.

 

[Murph_13]

Nitro, I think you're missing the foundation of the forum...it's to share your experiences/knowledge in an effort to help others...with an emphasis on "help others".

I get it, you paid for an inspection...and based on that inspection you decided the boat wasn't for you. Like Dr. Honda pointed out, others may not be discouraged from purchasing the boat based on the findings in the inspection. Whether or not you decide to "help" someone who may have been interested in the boat by sharing with them what the technician found to be faulty or not is up to you.

"I put it out there very loudly that the boat was NOT what the Seller represented it to be."...this is not very helpful...could you be any more vague?

The bottom line is, you're not going to be out any more money by sharing your findings...you decided to spend the money on the inspection (wisely I might add) to make your decision to purchase or not...from a monetary point-of-view you have nothing to gain or lose by sharing the information here...to me it seems petty and selfish to not want to share the information because you spent money to obtain it. I couldn't agree more with Dr. Honda and RFoster.

 

[Dr Honda]

Wow...a little surprised by some of the responses, especially Dr. Honda. .............

To be honest... I'm very surprised I had to say it. (never had to before)

In all my years of being on different chat boards... I've never ran into this situation. Sure... I have met some real jack-off's... and I have banned a few people for not following the rules. But, you are totally different. You seem like a nice guy, but you are being very "Secretive" in a very "Public" forum.


So... in your case... you aren't breaking the rules, and you can keep any info to yourself that you like. But, in a forum like this... it's "Quid Pro Quo". If people help you... then you should help others. And... if you aren't helpful in return... that will get out, and will be reflected back. (or not reflected back, as the case may be)

 

[Nitro257]

Not sure how much more we can beat this around. As I mentioned before you guys win...I understand--it all is an OPEN book. I'm now being analyzed to determine whether or not I am a nice guy.....what more do you want me to do at this point???